What day of the week should we go to church on?

[Guest shiloh357]

The scriptures tells us plainly that the Sabbath is Biblical, whether you agree or not.

This is the kind of false allegations I am talking about. Where did I say that the Sabbath is not biblical???? Please copy and paste where I have ever made such a remark.

What I have said that is that the Sabbath is a nonissue, and I was speaking in the context of salvation. I did not say it was wrong to keep the Sabbath. I did not criticize Sabbath observance once. If you think that I have, copy and paste where I did or retract your false allegations.

What I am saying is that the Sabbath is not a Salvation issue and is therefore a nonissue with respect to the teachings that it is mandatory which is being propagated by the likes of Pilgrim7.

Of course you are too busy whining over things I did not say, to pay any attention to what has been said. You need to get over yourself and learn how to listen instead of just the usual knee-jerk, over the top reactions you are accustomeed to.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Y'all and those keeping score at home

Well, back to topic, ignoring the unBiblical personal attacks from Shiloh.

Pilgrim 7, I appreciate your posts very much. I would like to discuss some points with you.

I would like to ask you straight out, do you believe that keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation? And if so, can you show me Scripture for that please? Thank you.

[Vickilynn]

Now as to your first point:

You say that the Sabbath was not for worship, but for rest. Why then did the Jews go to the temple if not to worship? That would require exertion and disturb their rest. I am not being facetious here. They had ceased, which is what the word means, from thier secular duties for what reason? So they could now focus all their attention to thier Holy Lord, on His Holy Day, in the pursuit of holiness. I believe the Jews knew that they were going to the temple or synagogue for worship of God, not to rest.

Shalom Dennis,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I wish to remind you that the Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was set aside as a day of rest. Now, within that rest we are to focus and worship the L-rd, but it is not a commandment to gather for worship, it is a day to set aside to rest, physically and spiritually from the rest of the week and focus on G-d.

Genesis 2

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

[PreciousRubi]

I do doubt that Pilgrim7 or PreciousRabbi will give honest evaluation of these (or even read them), but one can hope.

Oh please, call me PreciousRubi.

I'll read the link later tonight.

[Vickilynn]

I do doubt that Pilgrim7 or PreciousRabbi will give honest evaluation of these (or even read them), but one can hope.

Oh please, call me PreciousRubi.

Shalom PR,

Precious RABBI?????

Oh my, that's too funny!!!!!!!

[Pilgrim7]

Sister VickiLyne,

Thanks for your kind response, I will answer your honest question as clearly as possible.

First we must separate the term being saved, or justified from the term salvation which includes progressive sanctification or a growing to the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. It requires nothing but Repentance from sin and faith in Christ to be saved, born again. Yet that repentance from sin is a turning from transgression of the law of God, which is contained in the Ten Commandments, not nine Commandments. In that experience, the Holy Spirit is given to dwell in the neart of the 'New Born' believer. Now He writes the laws of God in the heart, not in commandment form, but in the format loving God and his will, thus Jesus, the 'living Law', the one who fulfilled the law, all Ten, dwells in the heart of the Believer and lives His holy life through him, as shown by Paul in Galatians chapter 2, which would include the keeping of all Ten.

Now as to my stance on the Sabbath, I believe that it is more important than the other nine and here are my reasons.

First, it is part of the creation of God as you pointed out and as I have done many times in this thread. None of the other nine were part of creation, but made necessary because of the sinful nature acquired by sin, and so transgression of them was sin from the beginning for they identify the evil deeds brought in by sin.

Next, they were written by the finger of God, not by Moses. He just recorded the giving of them. This gives them more significance than the Law of Moses, which written by his hand, although it was at God's inspiration and direction.

Thirdly, all Ten were placed in the Ark of the Covenant along with Aaron's rod that budded and the Golden Pot of Manna. This gives them even importance, showing that they are part of the foundation of God's government. Above them stood the Mercy Seat, where the presence of God dwelt. From here God dispensed forgiveness for transgressions of that law as the people by faith offered their Sacrifices for sin, thus showing faith in Jesus.

Next, the whole Sacrificial System was built around them, prefiguring the Sacrifice of Jesus to not only forgive sin, but to put away sin and eradicate it. This was all necessary to deal with the transgression of all Ten of the Commandments.

Fifthly, the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people, a memorial, pointing to and identifying Him as the Creator God, who we all know was Jesus. This is how He is differentiated from the myriad of false gods. He is the all powerful God, who speaks and it stands fast forever and ever.

Next, it is a sign that we have entered into our rest in Jesus, yet as Hebrews say we still have to labor to enter into our final rest, which would be the process of Sanctification.

Seventh, which is the number of completion, it will be kept forever on the New earth when the saint inherit it forever. Thus Sabbath observance has been continuous from the Garden to the New earth. It is the summation of the first three commandments, a sign that we love Him with all the heart, mind, soul and strength.

I believe, and have Scripture to support it, that Sabbath keeping is as important, if not more important, to the Sanctification phase of Salvation as any other commandments are. For transgression of the law of God is sin, and the wages of willfull, known, presumptuous transgression of God's law, is death. There can be no holiness, which is what Sanctification is, in Transgression of the Will of God part of which is contained in the Ten Commandments.

Yet allow me to clarify a point here, I don't keep the Sabbath because it is a command, for that would be legalistic. I keep it because Jesus lives in my heart, He loves His Holy Sabbath, He kept His Holy Sabbath and He dwells in me and thus I love and keep His holy Sabbath.

If you have any other specific questions feel free to ask them, for I perceive in you a Spirit of Christian grace, one who can discuss issues without hostiltiy or accusaion.

God bless you Sister,

Dennis

[Celtic Warrior]

I do doubt that Pilgrim7 or PreciousRabbi will give honest evaluation of these (or even read them), but one can hope.

Oh please, call me PreciousRubi.

I'll read the link later tonight.

My Apologies, I forgot to look at your handle before I started my post and was working from memory I will endeavor to not make the same mistake twice

[Pilgrim7]

Here are some interesting quotes from History as to the topic under discussion:

Most of the Christian churches kept the Holy Sabbath:

[Guest shiloh357]

If you have any other specific questions feel free to ask them, for I perceive in you a Spirit of Christian grace, one who can discuss issues without hostiltiy or accusaion.

Good... Is Sabbath observance, in your theology, essential for salvation? I do not keep the Sabbath on the seventh day, and I have no intention of doing so. I reject your contention that Sabbath observance is necessary or more important than the other nine commandments. So my question, which is a very simple one, is what will be the eternal consequences for rejecting Sabbath observance?

Are Christians, in your theology, who do not keep the Sabbath and see no reason to do so, just as saved as those who do not keep the Sabbath? Will a person go to hell as a consequence for rejecting Sabbath observance according to your understanding of Scripture?

[Vickilynn]

Sister VickiLynn,

Thanks for your kind response, I will answer your honest question as clearly as possible.

Shalom Brother Dennis,

Thank YOU for your gracious reply and for taking the time to share your position that I might understand where you are coming from.

I'm not really sure I understand though because you are using terminology that confuses me. So, please bear with me as I try to break down your reply into smaller chunks that I can understand. If I get it wrong, please correct me!!

OK, point one:

First we must separate the term being saved, or justified from the term salvation which includes progressive sanctification or a growing to the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. It requires nothing but Repentance from sin and faith in Christ to be saved, born again. Yet that repentance from sin is a turning from transgression of the law of God, which is contained in the Ten Commandments, not nine Commandments. In that experience, the Holy Spirit is given to dwell in the neart of the 'New Born' believer. Now He writes the laws of God in the heart, not in commandment form, but in the format loving God and his will, thus Jesus, the 'living Law', the one who fulfilled the law, all Ten, dwells in the heart of the Believer and lives His holy life through him, as shown by Paul in Galatians chapter 2, which would include the keeping of all Ten.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. Let's firstly establish an understanding on what is needed to be saved.

What I read in the Scriptures says that to be "saved", that is "born again" is this and it is very simple:

Romans 10:

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Acts 10:43

43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for(Y) the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Romans 5:

1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 2:

15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:

26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Ephesians 2:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Many many others as well that I can provide if you like that support this stand below:

So Brother, basically what I see to be saved, to be born again into Yeshua and into His Family and have the Holy Spirit indwell me and to have eternal life in Heaven is that by faith, I acknowledge that Yeshua is fully G-d, and the Son of G-d, and that HE as the Sacrificed Lamb died for MY sins. I acknowledge my sins and my need to be forgiven and I ask Jesus to come into my life, forgive my sins and be my Savior and L-rd, and by His grace, He forgives my sins and makes me a new person, cleansed from all unrighteousness and filled with His Holy Spirit and will live forever with G-d in Heaven. By His grace gives me a gift, all I need do is recognize it and accept it by faith.

Are we on the same page concerning how one is to be saved (born again)?