Is it wrong to drink?

[hr.jr.]

The Bible does not forbid drinking, only drunkeness

The bible forbids drunkenness...but it does not outright say you are allowed to drink alcoholic drink either.

The second that an alcoholic drink enters your body your liver begins the process of trying to protect your body from its effects. The liver is incapable of filtering the alcohol before it enters the bloodstream. Once it is in your bloodstream the alcohol travels through your body and into your brain, killing brain cells. So even if you don't feel the effects of the alcohol, your body is reacting to it in a negative way. I think that is a good indicator of whether or not God might approve of slcohol in our bodies.

And since your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, how could you pollute it with even one drink? Wine wasn't the same then as it is now.

Some wines were, some were not. Wine then was app 2-5 % alcohol. This is the alcohol concentration that can be reached with natural, non-engineered, yeasts. Some wine today still falls into this range, some is much stronger. Paul said to "take a little wine for the stomach." While much can be argued about the context of this admonition, one thing is clear; in some cases wine is not defiling to the body. Wine can be beneficial to our health.

The motive for consumption is the key. Are you consuming for your health? Are you consuming to get impaired and merely using health as an excuse to consume? Do you consume a glass of wine, or does one lead to two which leads to three which leads to six? All things must be considered.

[forrestkc]

Some wines were, some were not. Wine then was app 2-5 % alcohol. This is the alcohol concentration that can be reached with natural, non-engineered, yeasts. Some wine today still falls into this range, some is much stronger. Paul said to "take a little wine for the stomach." While much can be argued about the context of this admonition, one thing is clear; in some cases wine is not defiling to the body. Wine can be beneficial to our health.

The motive for consumption is the key. Are you consuming for your health? Are you consuming to get impaired and merely using health as an excuse to consume? Do you consume a glass of wine, or does one lead to two which leads to three which leads to six? All things must be considered.

Wine back then was about the strength of beer today. However, by all accounts, they drank it like people drink beer today so the net result was the same.

[Christ_Sheep]

Is it wrong to drink? I know the bible says it is wrong to become intoxicated, and even in the bible Jesus and his disciples drank wine (probably plenty of times), but it was probably of a different potency back in those times. However, I was wondering is it wrong to drink champagne? Smirnoff? Wine, mixed drinks, things of that nature?

I doubt there was much of a difference in the potency of wine then as there is today. They also had beer back then, and forms of hard liquor.

Look at when Jesus turned water into wine.

John 2:1-10

"Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you." Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." 6 So they took it. And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."

Ok, so lets look at this passage.

1. Jesus and his disciples are invited to a wedding.

2. The wedding ran out of wine.

3. Jesus turned approximately 150 gallons of water into wine.

4. The wine he made was good wine (strong).

That is pretty much the biblical times equivalent of a kegger right there. 150 gallons of wine is a lot of wine. Say you have 300 guests, thats about a magnum of wine each. More than enough to get everyone at the party flat out lit. More importantly though, even before Jesus turned the water into wine, everyone at the party obviously had already drank a lot of wine because they were running out.

So what is the logical conclusion here.

1. There is nothing wrong with drinking.

2. There is nothing wrong with drinking a good amount of alcohol at a social event and having a good time.

There is are a lot of scriptural references in the Bible on drinking, but there is a general trend with all of them. They all admonish drunkenness, especially drunkenness that results immorality. Now what does the Bible mean by drunkenness? The same thing we mean today when we refer to it. It means laying up drunk all the time, acting stupid because of it, losing your morals and good judgement because of it. If your just laying up drunk all the time, thats sinful. If you get so drunk your losing all sense of morality, thats sinful.

However, obviously drinking and having a good time at a social event because of it is not sinful.

Ok, this reply probably brought to light this topic with a greater clarity than most. I, honestly, have never seen it in quite that light before. We all probably are as familiar with Jesus at the wedding as we are with, going to Walmart, and I will just say; this right here made a lot of sense. Jesus was definitely at a social event, weddings receptions usually have a good deal of drinking going on. However, it's still not a pass to get sloppy drunk and wasted. Keeping with the theme, many of the guest were feeling pretty good before Jesus popped open the "best wine" which means something ... it definitely wasn't grape juice. If we can all agree on one thing, then it should be that.

However, the bible is still against drunkeness, losing your inhibitions, losing your sound mind and judgment, and just acting a fool just because we "get that way". I would never drink in front of someone whom was just learning about the gospel and wanting a holy example of how to live their life. I have decided that I will not drink strongly anymore. If it's anything it is in close moderation and it will be what many men consider "girl drinks". That way I am not an enmity with god or at odds with him. Clearly, I don't want to misstep on this very serious topic, and do something I'd regret later (had plenty of that happen already), and it isn't good.

I started drinking initially four years ago because of a feeling of hurt and rejection, but I honestly do like the taste of some of the stuff ... but I now refuse to get drunk anymore. I am thinking of sticking to champagne, wine and wine coolers. Havent touched anything in months, and for those out there wondering, that is why I decided and kept on drinking. I wasn't the guy at the party across town whom was known for throwing wild parties, but I tried it once and liked how some of it tasted.

With the sober mind that I have now, I will be much more careful to continue to serve my lord and not violate his rules. Though I am not perfect, but I have holy intentions.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Christ_Sheep

[kat8585]

All I've ever seen alcohol do is destroy lives, some in my own family. I want nothing to do with it. What is a good reason to drink? It costs money that could be used in the Lord's work.

[Guest LadyC]

it's really an issue between you and God. if you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit when you have a drink, then you should pay heed. God will let you know if you're displeasing Him.

as for asking us here, well, you'll get a wide variety of answers. many are very strongly opposed to any drinking whatsoever and don't believe the wine Jesus served was even fermented. others of us disagree with that position.

i enjoy an occasional drink. God has never chastised me over it... probably because it's a rare thing, and if i ever do become intoxicated (which is extremely rare) i do so in the privacy of my home and go to sleep... because intoxication makes me sleepy. in fact, that's really the only reason i ever bother to become intoxicated, is to sleep really good.

there've been very very few exceptions to the above.

Paul was quite plain that any behavior that caused a brother to stumble was sin. I am not aware how it is possible to consume alcohol around an immature Christian without it causing them a problem. To me, it is not sin to consume wine in moderation. By moderation, I mean a small 6oz. glass with a meal, or befor bed. However, I found many years ago that it is practically not possible for me to do this without being questioned by other Christians about why a Christian is drinking wine. It can be a stumbling block. Around a group of mature Christians, I will drink a glass of wine with a meal. Around an immature Christian, never. As to liquor, the Bible was plain about "strong drink." I think it is absolutely sin for a "Christian" to socially drink." Why would a "Christian" want to drink alcohol to lose inhibitions in a social atmosphere?

did you overlook the fact that i said i get intoxicated extremely rarely, and only in the privacy of my home so i can go to sleep? or are you referring to my husband as an immature christian to whom i may be a stumbling block? just looking for clarification, as the latter would probably be an accurate assessment, except that my occasional drink doesn't cause him to stumble.

[chin]

why is it that i want to be of this world instead of transformed by JESUS? if it is questionable,it is sin, amen? do i have to act ,think, and speak like everybody else? it is your choice, whom will you follow? jim

[hr.jr.]

it's really an issue between you and God. if you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit when you have a drink, then you should pay heed. God will let you know if you're displeasing Him.

as for asking us here, well, you'll get a wide variety of answers. many are very strongly opposed to any drinking whatsoever and don't believe the wine Jesus served was even fermented. others of us disagree with that position.

i enjoy an occasional drink. God has never chastised me over it... probably because it's a rare thing, and if i ever do become intoxicated (which is extremely rare) i do so in the privacy of my home and go to sleep... because intoxication makes me sleepy. in fact, that's really the only reason i ever bother to become intoxicated, is to sleep really good.

there've been very very few exceptions to the above.

Paul was quite plain that any behavior that caused a brother to stumble was sin. I am not aware how it is possible to consume alcohol around an immature Christian without it causing them a problem. To me, it is not sin to consume wine in moderation. By moderation, I mean a small 6oz. glass with a meal, or befor bed. However, I found many years ago that it is practically not possible for me to do this without being questioned by other Christians about why a Christian is drinking wine. It can be a stumbling block. Around a group of mature Christians, I will drink a glass of wine with a meal. Around an immature Christian, never. As to liquor, the Bible was plain about "strong drink." I think it is absolutely sin for a "Christian" to socially drink." Why would a "Christian" want to drink alcohol to lose inhibitions in a social atmosphere?

did you overlook the fact that i said i get intoxicated extremely rarely, and only in the privacy of my home so i can go to sleep? or are you referring to my husband as an immature christian to whom i may be a stumbling block? just looking for clarification, as the latter would probably be an accurate assessment, except that my occasional drink doesn't cause him to stumble.

Being Intoxicated is biblically prohibited, regardless of where you become intoxicated.

[EricH]

The Bible does not forbid drinking, only drunkeness

The bible forbids drunkenness...but it does not outright say you are allowed to drink alcoholic drink either.

The second that an alcoholic drink enters your body your liver begins the process of trying to protect your body from its effects. The liver is incapable of filtering the alcohol before it enters the bloodstream. Once it is in your bloodstream the alcohol travels through your body and into your brain, killing brain cells. So even if you don't feel the effects of the alcohol, your body is reacting to it in a negative way. I think that is a good indicator of whether or not God might approve of slcohol in our bodies.

And since your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, how could you pollute it with even one drink? Wine wasn't the same then as it is now.

Actually it was

[Axxman]

Is it wrong to drink? I know the bible says it is wrong to become intoxicated, and even in the bible Jesus and his disciples drank wine (probably plenty of times), but it was probably of a different potency back in those times. However, I was wondering is it wrong to drink champagne? Smirnoff? Wine, mixed drinks, things of that nature?

I doubt there was much of a difference in the potency of wine then as there is today. They also had beer back then, and forms of hard liquor.

Look at when Jesus turned water into wine.

John 2:1-10

"Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you." Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." 6 So they took it. And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."

Ok, so lets look at this passage.

1. Jesus and his disciples are invited to a wedding.

2. The wedding ran out of wine.

3. Jesus turned approximately 150 gallons of water into wine.

4. The wine he made was good wine (strong).

That is pretty much the biblical times equivalent of a kegger right there. 150 gallons of wine is a lot of wine. Say you have 300 guests, thats about a magnum of wine each. More than enough to get everyone at the party flat out lit. More importantly though, even before Jesus turned the water into wine, everyone at the party obviously had already drank a lot of wine because they were running out.

So what is the logical conclusion here.

1. There is nothing wrong with drinking.

2. There is nothing wrong with drinking a good amount of alcohol at a social event and having a good time.

There is are a lot of scriptural references in the Bible on drinking, but there is a general trend with all of them. They all admonish drunkenness, especially drunkenness that results immorality. Now what does the Bible mean by drunkenness? The same thing we mean today when we refer to it. It means laying up drunk all the time, acting stupid because of it, losing your morals and good judgement because of it. If your just laying up drunk all the time, thats sinful. If you get so drunk your losing all sense of morality, thats sinful.

However, obviously drinking and having a good time at a social event because of it is not sinful.

This is EXACTLY why you'd have to be out of your mind to believe that the wine Jesus made was alcoholic. Yeah, the Saviour of the world threw a 'kegger" with enough booze to get everyone "lit." That makes almost no sense. There is ZERO scriptural evidence that anyone at the wedding had drunk ANY intoxicating beverages...let alone that Jesus was of such poor judgement that he got drunk people more drunk in violation of what is written in Habbakkuk 2:15 "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle..."

I realize this could take the discussion off course, and that is not my intent, but I don't think its right to sit by while people make justifications for drinking alcohol based on the idea that Jesus threw a keg party.

[EricH]

Is it wrong to drink? I know the bible says it is wrong to become intoxicated, and even in the bible Jesus and his disciples drank wine (probably plenty of times), but it was probably of a different potency back in those times. However, I was wondering is it wrong to drink champagne? Smirnoff? Wine, mixed drinks, things of that nature?

I doubt there was much of a difference in the potency of wine then as there is today. They also had beer back then, and forms of hard liquor.

Look at when Jesus turned water into wine.

John 2:1-10

"Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you." Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." 6 So they took it. And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."

Ok, so lets look at this passage.

1. Jesus and his disciples are invited to a wedding.

2. The wedding ran out of wine.

3. Jesus turned approximately 150 gallons of water into wine.

4. The wine he made was good wine (strong).

That is pretty much the biblical times equivalent of a kegger right there. 150 gallons of wine is a lot of wine. Say you have 300 guests, thats about a magnum of wine each. More than enough to get everyone at the party flat out lit. More importantly though, even before Jesus turned the water into wine, everyone at the party obviously had already drank a lot of wine because they were running out.

So what is the logical conclusion here.

1. There is nothing wrong with drinking.

2. There is nothing wrong with drinking a good amount of alcohol at a social event and having a good time.

There is are a lot of scriptural references in the Bible on drinking, but there is a general trend with all of them. They all admonish drunkenness, especially drunkenness that results immorality. Now what does the Bible mean by drunkenness? The same thing we mean today when we refer to it. It means laying up drunk all the time, acting stupid because of it, losing your morals and good judgement because of it. If your just laying up drunk all the time, thats sinful. If you get so drunk your losing all sense of morality, thats sinful.

However, obviously drinking and having a good time at a social event because of it is not sinful.

This is EXACTLY why you'd have to be out of your mind to believe that the wine Jesus made was alcoholic. Yeah, the Saviour of the world threw a 'kegger" with enough booze to get everyone "lit." That makes almost no sense. There is ZERO scriptural evidence that anyone at the wedding had drunk ANY intoxicating beverages...let alone that Jesus was of such poor judgement that he got drunk people more drunk in violation of what is written in Habbakkuk 2:15 "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle..."

I realize this could take the discussion off course, and that is not my intent, but I don't think its right to sit by while people make justifications for drinking alcohol based on the idea that Jesus threw a keg party.

Actually the evidence is pretty strong. The term good wine implies alcoholic content. You have only quoted part of Hab 2:15. It states that the woe is on people who get others drunk in order to "look on their nakedness". It is the use of alcohol to make peopl helpless so they can be taken advantage of

Woe to him who gives his neighbors drink, pouring out your wrath and even making them drunk, in order to look at their nakedness!

Habakkuk 2:15 HCSB

We know the Bible prophibits drunkeness. It also prohibits uncovering nakedness. Niether of those things were going on in John 2. Your characterization of what happened at the wedding is just that. A characterization. The text does not say how much each person consumed. Only that the wine ran out. The bible prohibits getting drunk, not drinking.