salt and light Posted March 10, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 302 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hello brothers and sisters in Christ, It seems that most christians believe in a pre-trib. rapture,even though it's not biblical. The word "rapture" is not found in scripture. The saints that are alive get caught up after the dead in Christ rises first,and that is immediately after the tribulation as Jesus said. Most scriptures that talk about the "coming" of the Lord is the greek word "parousia",which means "arrival and presence", the Lord arrives to establish his kingdom,and of course,He is present,and there is no hint of a gathering {rapture} 7 years before that "parousia". This so called rapture happens at the first resurrection,and Revelation chapter 20 even mentions the first resurrection in verses 5 and 6,and the first few verses tells what happens to Satan. Satan gets bound and sealed in the bottomless pit. Also, nowhere does it say that the Lord comes FOR his Church and then 7 years later,comes WITH his Church.I think the apostle Paul made it quite clear what two things happen first before the Church is gathered in 2Thess. chapter 2. Since God is not the author of confusion,I fully believe that the "last trump" in 1Cor.15 is that 7th trumpet in Rev., since "last" means last. Satan would love to have us believe that we aren't going to be here,so when it's time for the mark of the beast,christians will take it,believing that it's not the mark of the beast, because they've been taught that the mark of the beast is after the Church is removed,and the bible just doesn't say that. We have a chance to die for Jesus,and what a great reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleStudent Posted March 13, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/03/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2004 salt and light, That's a very good observation. Let's extend it a bit. The classic text used for the rapture is 1 Thes 4:13-17. Clearly it speaks of the gathering of the saints (cf. Matt 24:31). But the secret rapture/7-year tribulation position neglects to read on. If they would simply read on into the first 2 verses of chapter 5 (remember, no chapter or verse breaks in the original) they would discover that the gathering of the saints happens on the Day of the Lord! And that is the day that God destroys the wicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi Guys, both above posts address issues that easily refuted by scripture. Rather than endlessely repeat myself and others here just go to: Rapture Ready Your arguments have been addressed over there, over and over. They don't hold water. The pre-trib view is the view substantiated by the most scripture. The post-trib view relies on a lot of symbolism and allegory. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted March 15, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hey John brother, when you have finished Rapture Ready, try lasttrumpet. If you're going to get mixed up, you might as well do it properly. Be blessed. eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted March 16, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2004 Sorry but your statement from the begining shows me that you have done practically no research in the matter , and you atitude tells me you dont want to know the truth.... I find it to be lazy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusisGod2 Posted March 17, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,065 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1958 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Hi Guys, both above posts address issues that easily refuted by scripture. Rather than endlessely repeat myself and others here just go to: Rapture Ready Your arguments have been addressed over there, over and over. They don't hold water. The pre-trib view is the view substantiated by the most scripture. The post-trib view relies on a lot of symbolism and allegory. John Actually it is quite the opposite, and I agree with the first two post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 17, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Greetings LCPGUY, Your arguments have been addressed over there, over and over. They don't hold water. The pre-trib view is the view substantiated by the most scripture. The post-trib view relies on a lot of symbolism and allegory. Whenever I hear this, I can tell that those who present this argument or other arguments in support of a pre-trib rapture have not studied the scriptures for themselves, but are only parroting the diatribe of others who for whatever reason teach this false doctrine. It really saddens me that you will take the word of men over the Word of God, and I guarantee you that is what you have done. I challenge you to put your long held view aside and study for yourself what the scriptures have to say. I an others are here to help you if you have questions. I propose that you ask yourself the following questions: 1) Is Jesus going to "leave behind" ANY of those that are His? 2) What verse specifically speaks of "the rapture"? 3) When does it take place? 4) How many "resurrections" are there shown in the scriptures? 5) How do you square the "order" given in Matthew and Luke of the Lord's 2nd coming with a pre-trib rapture view? 6) How many people do you think will be raptured? 7) Who do you think the "multitudes beyond count" that are saved during the Great Tribulation are? 8) How are the saved? Did Jesus FORGET them when He supposedly "raptured" all the pre-trib saints out of this earth? I am sure there are many other questions you might ask yourself and perhaps some of the other post-tribbers will add to this list. In any case, DO YOUR OWN studying and do NOT listen to the lies of men. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 In any case, DO YOUR OWN studying and do NOT listen to the lies of men. I did exactly that. That's why I am now an ex-post-tribber. I do not care to answer loaded or trick questions either. If you all are happy post-tribbers, that's fine with me because it really doesn't matter. This is neither a core nor salvation issue. In His Love, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 17, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Greetings lcpguy, I did exactly that. That's why I am now an ex-post-tribber. I do not care to answer loaded or trick questions either. If you all are happy post-tribbers, that's fine with me because it really doesn't matter. This is neither a core nor salvation issue. Well in fact, it is a part of God's power unto salvation. The Gospel consists of the following: 1) Jesus' Birth 2) Jesus' Life 3) Jesus' Death 4) Jesus' Resurrection 5) Jesus' 2nd Coming Which part of the Gospel's CORE message are you going to leave out? Me thinks you ought to study more and quit listening to men's fairy tales. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted March 17, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I agree with you DadE, the first four of the events you mention have already occurred and now we look forward to the final and exciting fulfillment of the fifth, but it seems that some want to be secretly raptured away before it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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