Why do atheists assume evolution is fact?

[Jorge S]

you can not receive any modern medical help from a doctor with out evolution playing some role

How's that?

[Jorge S]

Species are only in our minds..it is a human idea that is not mirroed in reality

Agreed, partially. There are groups of living organisms bearing resemblance that are taken as different species thanks to the essentially arbitrary nature of definitions and systematics. God said He created different kinds which do not necessarily correlate with our definition of species. That aspect alone can greatly undermine the overrated issue of observed speciation.

...the strongest evidence of evolution is genetics..where we can trace precisely our lineage back to chimp like ancestors..and then farther back into the great apes..then primates etc etc etc

Can you provide any online reference in this regard?

[stan4257]

Because as an overall picture, it makes vastly more sense than the alternative.

I'd be much more inclined to view the idea of divine creation favourably (as an idea, at least) if it came unattached to religion. I disbelieve the Christian version because I disbelieve Christianity; likewise with other faiths. Evolution is not burdened with the joint necessity of believing in unrelated mythological or moral arguments - by which I mean, I don't need to take a certain position on homosexuality in order to believe that humans and apes are related.

(Note: I don't consider the ID movement as unattached from religion. At the very least, it is not, as it claims to be, science: viz, it does not meet the dictionary definition for a scientific theory.)

I think there is an assumption here that has a great deal to do with the conflict between many Christians and many atheists when discussing evolution.

As a very long time battle scarred and living in Christ (as far as possible) Christian I find no conflict between Genesis and evolution, and it concerns me that so much of the energy of Christians and atheists seems concentrated on arguments that the two are incompatible.

It leads to conclusions like the one from the quote above:

"I disbelieve the Christian version because I disbelieve Christianity; likewise with other faiths. Evolution is not burdened with the joint necessity of believing in unrelated mythological or moral arguments"

which is a great pity.

Believing in the fact of Jesus Christ and doing the best one can in the power of that belief to follow the two commandments of love does not depend on evolution.

The fact of Jesus Christ is a provable fact in the personal lives of uncountable numbers of Christians who see and know and feel and are certain of that fact by what they experience. It resounds and echoes and vibrates in every cell and thought and occupation. It is not a myth, and no amount of trying to prove this or that or the other can change that fact.

And with sorrow, I feel that many wearing the label of Christian do Christ a disservice by not concentrating on the fact of what that means in everyday ordinary life, instead of on arguments that are peripheral to the reality.

Sure, what I think and say is anathema to many people who are dedicated Christians, but that does not necessarily make it wrong.

We do Satan's work when we put stumbling blocks in the way of those who otherwise would find the love of Jesus Christ in their lives.

[Guest]

"A great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that the boat was already being swamped. But Jesus was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke him up and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?" He woke up and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, "Peace! Be still!" Then the wind ceased, and there was a dead calm. He said to them, "Why are you afraid? Have you still no faith?" And they were filled with great awe and said to one another, "Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?" Mark 4:37-41

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." John 5:24-25

you can not receive any modern medical help from a doctor without evolution playing some role

How's that?

Ask your doctor, and report back.

Answer A Direct Question With A Silly Question

This Doctor Says No

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/1122medicine.asp

And The Bible Says No

"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well." Psalms 139:14

Science Fiction Is A Life-Long Enjoyment Of Mine. Long Ago I Gave Up Believing In Evolution As Reality When I Realized It Is Just More Non-Testable Bible-Mocking Chatter. I Do See Evolution As Useful For Story Plots In Some Historical Fiction And In Some Science Fiction Stories. Even Here At Worthy I See Evolution's Only Function Is A Mind Blinder. Blinding Minds To Both Rational Scientific Thought And To Biblical Truth.

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake." 2 Corinthians 4:3-5

Even Today Evil Men Are Using The False Claims Of Evolution As An Excuse To Treat Their Brothers And Sisters As Animals.

God Clearly Says Men Are Created And Are Created Special.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:26-27

Evolution Says There Is No Creator, The Creator Says There Is No Evolution

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Corinthians 8:6

Whom To Believe

Whatever You Choose To Believe Today, Believe This

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:16-18

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[stan4257]

And The Bible Says No

Evolution Says There Is No Creator, The Creator Says There Is No Evolution

Clearly, from reading my post, I disagree with both of the above statements:

"As a very long time battle scarred and living in Christ (as far as possible) Christian I find no conflict between Genesis and evolution, and it concerns me that so much of the energy of Christians and atheists seems concentrated on arguments that the two are incompatible."

But of one thing I am sure we agree on and that is that Jesus Christ, Son of God died and rose again from the dead as a sacrifice by which our sins are forgiven.

Saves a lot of arguments, brother, when we focus on that for which there is no argument.

But if any person should wish to argue that what I believe is not sufficient for my salvation then that's OK, too. My life is long and my faith is strong, so lets concentrate on introducing Jesus Christ as simply as possible to those who do not yet know him.

And if I do not argue back it is not because I don't love in Christ the person who is trying to persuade me to think differently, but because I think such arguments are counter productive, and so do not wish to be involved.

I have stated my case, and leave it to others, if they wish, to state theirs, without animosity or anger or anything except that we seek to follow the love commandments of Jesus Christ whom we claim to follow.

[Jorge S]

But of one thing I am sure we agree on and that is that Jesus Christ, Son of God died and rose again from the dead as a sacrifice by which our sins are forgiven.

Saves a lot of arguments, brother, when we focus on that for which there is no argument.

Brilliant! Let us work it out. The historic Jesus by whom our sins are forgiven created the world, gave us Genesis through Moses and referred to Genesis as historic during His earthly Ministry. What else do we need? Nothing more than preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ from where it exactly begins: Genesis 1!

[stan4257]

But of one thing I am sure we agree on and that is that Jesus Christ, Son of God died and rose again from the dead as a sacrifice by which our sins are forgiven.

Saves a lot of arguments, brother, when we focus on that for which there is no argument.

Brilliant! Let us work it out. The historic Jesus by whom our sins are forgiven created the world, gave us Genesis through Moses and referred to Genesis as historic during His earthly Ministry. What else do we need? Nothing more than preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ from where it exactly begins: Genesis 1!

If that's fine for you then it's fine for me. Whatever you say.

For me, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that he was the Son of God, died and rose again from the dead as a sacrifice by which my sins were forgiven. Praise God.

[Jorge S]

If that's fine for you then it's fine for me. Whatever you say.

For me, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that he was the Son of God, died and rose again from the dead as a sacrifice by which my sins were forgiven. Praise God.

Gotcha!

See, brother? One thing leads to another. The Word provides a consistent and harmonious worldview that is at odds with the evolutionary conception. One cannot accept evolution without making major and unwarranted biblical concessions. Like it or dislike it we're dealing with an either/or type of situation.

But rejoice and praise the Lord for Science. It has provided and will continue to provide further confirmation of His Truthful Word. Let the Word help you discern reality as God intended IT to be.

"So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel,

I am Jehovah your God who teaches you to profit,

who leads you by the way that you should go."

[Guest Simian]

Species are only in our minds..it is a human idea that is not mirroed in reality

Agreed, partially. There are groups of living organisms bearing resemblance that are taken as different species thanks to the essentially arbitrary nature of definitions and systematics. God said He created different kinds which do not necessarily correlate with our definition of species. That aspect alone can greatly undermine the overrated issue of observed speciation.

...the strongest evidence of evolution is genetics..where we can trace precisely our lineage back to chimp like ancestors..and then farther back into the great apes..then primates etc etc etc

Can you provide any online reference in this regard?

Surely you have seen the evidence that humans and chimps are 98% the same in our DNA..well as you go back into the great ape family the fartheer away from chimps you get, the farther away from humans you get..now if you found a say worm..that had 98% DNA in common with a man..that would be a huge problem for evolution..but we have never found such a worm and infact it simply couldnt exist..because in order to have 98% of your DNA be the same as man..you would be very very very similar to man..just like chimps are

using answers in genesis as a source? LOL

*edit links*

look at the link on the right labeled why medicine needs evolution

or do some research on the best hope for curing aids..heres a hint..it is based 100% on darwin's natural selection

[jeffnevins]

I don't know. I don't think they have a choice but to stick with Darwin because there is no other alternative in their minds. A Christian has a choice. He or she can believe in theistic evolution (old earth) or not, but atheists must argue the irrationality of evolution wihout any evidence, with the hope that evidence will show up somewhere along the way.

Evidence of Evolution

Evolution has more evidence than gravity....do you cling to gravity because you have no other option to beleive in? or do you take gravity as fact because the evidence supports it?

how about germ theory..you know..the idea that microbes cause sickness...do you beleive that because you have noother options..or because the evidence points over whemingly to that conclusion?

ask any scientist who is actually a learned man(sorry ken ham and the discovery institute..you dont count) and they will tell you that evolution is the most well supported theory in the history of science..evolution has more evidence from more areas of science than the theory of gravity..or germ theory..or even the shpere earth theory

you can not receive any modern medical help from a doctor with out evolution playing some role

I think most people around the world gravitate to gravity since they use it to move around.

If Ken Ham (and creationists) don't count, then I guess we should nix evolutionists to even it out.

Thankfully, I haven't visited a doctor in years. The last time I did, the dude wanted me to throw some $ at his bud in the pharmaceutical industry because he didn't know or didn't want to tell how to fix something without crappy drugs.

But some doctors are cool, and can fix a broken arm, etc.

But I'm just the token animator. No one needs to listen to me- it's an internet forum, after all. I just hope to wrap up some more art today.