Denominations

[Smalcald]

For many communion is not a little matter, it was not for Luther who in fact railed against those he labeled heretics who he said tore up the sacraments and denied their power and grace.

But anyway I do know what you mean about the big picture. Also indeed all of our divisions will at one time end, I don't know when though.

But I couldn't really even get anybody on this very board to stand up and say yes proactively I agree 100% with the Worthy Statement of faith. Obviously talking and dreaming about this topic is much easier than really getting down to nuts and bolts, WOF, Catholics, King James Fundamentalists, and on and on all believe in being in unity, they just believe that we should all be unified with them and believe what they do as only they are truly guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It is the eternal Protestant conundrum. I wish we were in total unity also, but then when we get down to talking about what that really means, well hey all of us want unity but only if we are the ones doing the unifying around exactly what we believe.

[OneLight]

Also indeed all of our divisions will at one time end, I don't know when though.

We may still have different names for the churches that we go to, but as the falling away continues, we will be forced to either give in or drill deeper in the Word and walk closer to God, becoming a mature Body. The church has been led by the Pastors for many years and his word was all they needed ... most of them would never compromise the word of God and go astray, even though they were some. Today, it is a whole different story. Those of us who have just occupied the pews for many years will have their eyes opened as His day draws near and step out of Christian adolescence into a maturity that God can use. As for when? The only time we will be in complete unity is when we are with Christ, and only the Father knows the day and time of His return.

But I couldn't really even get anybody on this very board to stand up and say yes proactively I agree 100% with the Worthy Statement of faith.

I will say that I agree with the Statement of Faith, and much more then what they have posted. I did not post earlier because I did not want to take this off denominations and unto statements, which should be another thread.

Obviously talking and dreaming about this topic is much easier than really getting down to nuts and bolts, WOF, Catholics, King James Fundamentalists, and on and on all believe in being in unity, they just believe that we should all be unified with them and believe what they do as only they are truly guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It is the eternal Protestant conundrum. I wish we were in total unity also, but then when we get down to talking about what that really means, well hey all of us want unity but only if we are the ones doing the unifying around exactly what we believe.

The nice thing about God is that he is very capable to bring His Body back together, and will. Every one of us have some part of our belief system that is not exactly in accordance to how we should truly believe, and we all will be changed. Since Jesus did not want any form of deviation from the truth in His Body, He will indeed reunite His sheep to where He wants us to be, those who truly follow Him. Those who turn another way, as in the New World Church, are already deceived and following the beast. You mentioned the Straight and Narrow ROAD ... notice it is just one road, not many paths zig-zagging back and forth, hoping to end all at the same juncture in the end.

[OneLight]

The work of Martin Luthor will be completed. Because that is part of the plan of God.

And he will be needing dedicated, mature Christians whom He can work through to accomplish His plan!

[Massorite]

For many communion is not a little matter, it was not for Luther who in fact railed against those he labeled heretics who he said tore up the sacraments and denied their power and grace.

But anyway I do know what you mean about the big picture. Also indeed all of our divisions will at one time end, I don't know when though.

But I couldn't really even get anybody on this very board to stand up and say yes proactively I agree 100% with the Worthy Statement of faith. Obviously talking and dreaming about this topic is much easier than really getting down to nuts and bolts, WOF, Catholics, King James Fundamentalists, and on and on all believe in being in unity, they just believe that we should all be unified with them and believe what they do as only they are truly guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It is the eternal Protestant conundrum. I wish we were in total unity also, but then when we get down to talking about what that really means, well hey all of us want unity but only if we are the ones doing the unifying around exactly what we believe.

I LIKE THAT. Smalcaldpro actively I have one very strict rule which is " If it is not clearly written in the bible it does not exist". I don't believe for a minute that the word of God leads us to believe anything or points to, or suggests or hints at any thing at all. The word of God is either very clear about what it says or it doesn't, say it.

I believe that if all of us viewed the bible that way we would not be so separated.

The first communion was a very simple process with a very large meaning but men have installed conditions on taking the communion that do not exist in the bible. All have the right to take communion any time they wish as it is supposed to be a private matter between the believer and his God and God judges the heart of the believer.

[OneLight]

I wish we were in total unity also, but then when we get down to talking about what that really means, well hey all of us want unity but only if we are the ones doing the unifying around exactly what we believe.

If that is true, then we are really in deeper then I imagined ... I'd really like to see unity around God.

[Phil.2:12]

For many communion is not a little matter, it was not for Luther who in fact railed against those he labeled heretics who he said tore up the sacraments and denied their power and grace.

But anyway I do know what you mean about the big picture. Also indeed all of our divisions will at one time end, I don't know when though.

But I couldn't really even get anybody on this very board to stand up and say yes proactively I agree 100% with the Worthy Statement of faith. Obviously talking and dreaming about this topic is much easier than really getting down to nuts and bolts, WOF, Catholics, King James Fundamentalists, and on and on all believe in being in unity, they just believe that we should all be unified with them and believe what they do as only they are truly guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It is the eternal Protestant conundrum. I wish we were in total unity also, but then when we get down to talking about what that really means, well hey all of us want unity but only if we are the ones doing the unifying around exactly what we believe.

Methinks Smalcald, that you might try reading the posts a little closer. You tried baiting me with that 100% Worthy agreement in one of your answers to a post I had made. I responded that I was in agreement with the Worthy Statement of Faith, but that seemed to blow right by you. Both Onelight and myself have publicaly stated that we are in agreement with the Worthy Statement of Faith which, in and by itself, prety much destroys the argument you made in the above post. I really don't like to nit-pic Smalcald, but since I'm one of the nits being picked on, I felt I had to respond. Truth be known, many of the posters in this thread are in agreement with Worthy's Statement of Faith and have said as much in other threads. Just because they refused to play the validating game in this thread by stating the obvious does not mean that they fail to support Worthy's Statement of Faith, whether they use your words or not to convey that impression of support. Perhaps if you spent more time closely reading the posts and less time in setting clever traps to prove a point you want to make, things might go better.

[Smalcald]

I am not trying to put clever traps around anyone, I am simply pointing out how hard true unity is particularly when those promoting unity seem to want to divide and splinter even further, we need to kind of really get down to the brass tacks here. Do you see what I mean?

People claim THEY walk with God and those who don

[Phil.2:12]

I am not trying to put clever traps around anyone, I am simply pointing out how hard true unity is particularly when those promoting unity seem to want to divide and splinter even further, we need to kind of really get down to the brass tacks here. Do you see what I mean?

People claim THEY walk with God and those who don't' see things there way are part of the "falling away". The fact is if you are a Christian today you ARE IN a denomination as there is NO one visible united Christian group (the true eternal Church is united in Christ however). Denominations are simply different groups of Christians, nothing more nor less. Unfortunately those groups don't always agree, some agree more than others and so forth. Some denominations are more organized than others; some are just one person and their family.

I don't understand where this is going though; what the point is? Should we be united is that God's plan and desire? Yes I would totally agree that it is. But should we unite by sweeping scripture and our differences in how we interpret scripture under the rug for the sake of getting along? I don't think any of us would agree with that. I am not for division and I DO think that denominations which reflect division among us are not good. One of the reasons I belong to my denomination is that I sincerely seek to be in total communion with a large group of Christians though. I know when I take communion I am in total scriptural agreement with several million other people, how is that bad? To me sure I could go off alone or join a small splinter group but how is that helpful if we want unity around Christ? Remember the Catholic argument is not totally invalid on this point, when Catholics come together for worship they are united with close to a billion other Christians. Now are they wrong theologically? Yes obviously I think they are or I would join them, but from a unity standpoint they are on the right track. My point is simply that Luther by opening up the bible and Gospel gave us an incredible gift of access to the true Gospel, but it came at a huge cost, I think that cost was worth it, but it WAS a cost.

Where is your post Phil that you claimed to agree with the Worthy statement of faith, I went back and couldn't find it, sorry if I missed it?

Mea Culpa Smalcald I thought I had posted the fact that I do support the Worthy Statement of Faith, but couldn't find that post in this thread when I looked. So, sorry, I blew that. You do ask some intriguing questions such as this one

But should we unite by sweeping Scripture and our differences in how we interpret Scrupture under the rug for the sake of getting along.

This is at the very heart of the unification problem. We putting aside our differences in order to unite under one banner. This will never produce the unification within the Body of Christ that our Father demands of us, for it is still we doing something we thought up to unite under a banner no one really agrees with, but accepts in the name of "unity". Such false unity is not what our Father wants. `He demands true unity where the only things discarded are the false doctrines that came from the fleshly thinking of man within each denomination.

Our Heavenly Father was quite explicit on this in His Word, telling us over and over that the Holy Spirit will teach us the things of God if we will but let Him. The Holy Spirit is to be our Unifier, not some bland banner that says nothing and therefore offends no one which all then rally behind and call themselves "unified". When we finally wise up and let the Holy Spirit interpret God's Word for us, we will begin to individually understand the Word of God from His viewpoint (as opposed to our viewpoint). As this progresses throughout the Body of Christ, the members will find themselves more and more in unity and the false doctrines Satan has so carefully planted will be identified by the Body of Christ and immediately disposed of. The more the members of Christ's Body mature within the Body of Christ, the more the Holy Spirit will unite them in Him.

This is already happening on a small, almost miniscule scale, as there are churches spread throughout America that seek only to be led by the Holy Spirit and whose pastor's submit themselves completely to the Will of God within their flock. They do not teach denominational doctrines that are centuries old, but depend on the Holy Spirit to teach them the Word of God so they can then feed their flock the truth of God without any deceptions. The movement is small, but growing and I see it as the vehicle which God will use to bring true revival to the Body of Christ. This growing body of churches are united by only one thing, their pastors truly seek out the Holy Spirit and allow Him to teach them from the Scriptures so that their flocks can be properly fed. Even though there is no name to this growing movement, and no real central control coming from a central headquarters, there is a fellowship that has developed between the pastors in this growing movement, and they frely share with each other what God has shown them on a wide variety of topics, thus enriching themselves in the process.

It seems that this small maturity movement within the Body of Christ starts out in small fellowships and just grows as they let God work with them. with no fanfare, no extensive TV exposure, no "Big Name" ministry pastors connected to them, just the Holy Spirit guiding these loose-knit group of pastors who then teach their flocks to let the Holy Spirit lead them in their personal study of God's Word. Thankfully, I belong to one of these flocks here in Dayton, OH, the Grace Christian Center flock led by our undershepherd, Dr. Jim Martin.

So, Smalcald, in a nutshell, there is no giant rug to sweep anything under, for when the Holy Spirit begins to teach you the Truth in God's Word, the false things you once believed in are simply dismissed as they are replaced by the true teaching of the Word of God as revealed by the Holy Spirit. As far as unity is concerned, it will be a byproduct of the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit to us and we will naturally unite under the truth of God's Word.

[Smalcald]

I totally agree that the Holy Spirit will lead us to Truth.

At this point though I don't know what to say except that we should all stay committed to the Word of God at least then we will all have that as a starting point even when we disagree. Consider the three men we spoke of earlier. Luther, Calvin and Spurgan, which was led by the Holy Spirit? They all disagreed on some big issues.

But I for example have no desire for "new" doctrines. The Word of God has been opened since Luther, what new things would now appear? I am glad you are happy in your church, but you are doing exactly what I said people do, you see of course I believe the exact same thing about my congregation as I know Shilo does as I know Vickylyn does and onelight and so on, which is why we all belong. Do you see what I am getting at? I am not trying to be contentious with you I am sincerely happy for your path in Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

This is at the very heart of the unification problem. We putting aside our differences in order to unite under one banner. This will never produce the unification within the Body of Christ that our Father demands of us, for it is still we doing something we thought up to unite under a banner no one really agrees with, but accepts in the name of "unity". Such false unity is not what our Father wants. `He demands true unity where the only things discarded are the false doctrines that came from the fleshly thinking of man within each denomination.

So the question is how do you go about convincing someone in a particular denomination that something they believe is a "false doctrine from the fleshly thinking man?" I mean, everyone believes that they are reading the Bible by the leading of the Holy Spirit, and they can, for the most part, point to a place in the Bible that they feel supports their view or doctrine. So how do you demonstrate to that person that you have the authority, qualifications and knowledge to declare their doctrine invalid, false or fleshly? Why should they listen to you over their own pastor? What if they turn around and say it is YOUR teaching that is fleshly?

I mean, none of own the corner market on this. Which one of has an opinion that carries more weight that someone else's when it comes to having the perfect set of doctrines?