pamiam Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 188 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2008 I haven't had time to listen to the Smith tape yet, but what's this about including Rick Warren in with the criticism of the course in miracles or the emerging church? We'd better be real careful about drawing hasty conclusions, especially the comment about Siegel being quoted in the Purpose Driven Life. Does one quote inform the value of the entire book? Warren quotes the Bible throughout as well as quoting non-Biblical sources. Ever heard of the gift of discernment? I'm from Southern CA and was around when Calvary Costa Mesa began, attended Greg Laurie's Calvary Chapel before it became Harvest, then attended Chuck Smith Jr's Calvary Chapel for years. Are you aware he's been drummed out of the Calvary Chapel community? There's lots of going ons behind the scenes, people. We left Chuck Jr's church for Rick Warren's Saddleback only because they had a Celebrate Recovery program and it was very close to our house. After five years at Saddleback, I think I'm qualified to assess the Prupose Driven Life movement as an insider, and let me assure all of you that it is good. Rick Warren is a sweet spirit, approachable, humble and brilliant. His wife is wonderful. Be careful, you who draw negative conclusions based on a thimble-ful of knowledge. Good grief. We've been in Purpose Driven churches in Indian Wells, CA, and now in Bend, OR. Point being, there is real fruit in the PDL movement. I think there is certainly a spirit of jealousy among some in the faith community that Rick Warren has created this Saddleback phenomenon, all the while praying for God to be the center of it. Well, I went to his church when it met in Trabuco Hills High School and came back years later when it was in the new campus. We've led three or four small groups through the PDL video series. It is Biblical and nothing insidious. Again, good grief to the criticism of this amazing movement of the Holy Spirit. However, wherever people are involved, problems emerge. That's not really news, is it? As far as the Course in Miracles, yep, beware. Emerging church too much to address here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,338 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 The only thing I feel I can say at the moment is that sometimes it's difficult to see the forrest because of the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Pamiam, You have actually been to these churches and I haven't. All I can go by is the books that I read (including Purpose Driven Life) and articles/comments/books by people I trust (including quotes from Rick Warren, commentaries on The Barean Call, Koinonia House, Roger Oakland, World Net Daily, Jim Tetlow, Jack Kelly, and others). And now this very informative talk from Warren Smith. The Emerging Church and the New Age movement are something to approach with caution, and to be avoided if at all possible. Chuck Smith Jr. has withdrawn from affiliation with Calvary Chapel because he is embracing the comtemplative type of worship and Chuck Smith Sr. does not allow this in Calvary Chapel affiliates. (http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/ccoakland.htm and http://www.apostasyalert.org/Chuck%20Jr.%20Disaffiliates.htm and http://www.apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/ChuckJrUpdate.htm). Like I say, I have never attended any of the above named churches, I only know what I read. I guess all we can do is study our Bibles and pray for discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I had never heard of him, either. But I do trust Chuck Smith, Sr. Warren Smith spoke at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa where Chuck Smith, Sr., is the pastor. I don't believe they are related. Do listen to the link. It is worth your time. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbyrd Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2008 I haven't had time to listen to the Smith tape yet, but what's this about including Rick Warren in with the criticism of the course in miracles or the emerging church? We'd better be real careful about drawing hasty conclusions, especially the comment about Siegel being quoted in the Purpose Driven Life. Does one quote inform the value of the entire book? Warren quotes the Bible throughout as well as quoting non-Biblical sources. Ever heard of the gift of discernment? I'm from Southern CA and was around when Calvary Costa Mesa began, attended Greg Laurie's Calvary Chapel before it became Harvest, then attended Chuck Smith Jr's Calvary Chapel for years. Are you aware he's been drummed out of the Calvary Chapel community? There's lots of going ons behind the scenes, people. We left Chuck Jr's church for Rick Warren's Saddleback only because they had a Celebrate Recovery program and it was very close to our house. After five years at Saddleback, I think I'm qualified to assess the Prupose Driven Life movement as an insider, and let me assure all of you that it is good. Rick Warren is a sweet spirit, approachable, humble and brilliant. His wife is wonderful. Be careful, you who draw negative conclusions based on a thimble-ful of knowledge. Good grief. We've been in Purpose Driven churches in Indian Wells, CA, and now in Bend, OR. Point being, there is real fruit in the PDL movement. I think there is certainly a spirit of jealousy among some in the faith community that Rick Warren has created this Saddleback phenomenon, all the while praying for God to be the center of it. Well, I went to his church when it met in Trabuco Hills High School and came back years later when it was in the new campus. We've led three or four small groups through the PDL video series. It is Biblical and nothing insidious. Again, good grief to the criticism of this amazing movement of the Holy Spirit. However, wherever people are involved, problems emerge. That's not really news, is it? As far as the Course in Miracles, yep, beware. Emerging church too much to address here. Where does Rick Warren stand in regards to Robert Schuller's Rethink Conference? Did Rick Warren participate in it? and yes, in my case, ONE quote or teaching from a new-age guru is enough to de-value the entire book. it shows a serious lack of discernment on the part of the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbyrd Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2008 Okay I'm bit of a sceptic - before I watch all of this... is this Warren Smith guy a man of truth? I mean, is he preaching truth OR is he a WoF-er Sorry to ask this, but I don't know him and I always make sure of these things before I watch anything of the sort. If you give the OK that he's "kosher" I promise to watch the links. Esther as far as i know, warren smith is not a WoF guy. he is a former new-ager who got saved out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamiam Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 188 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2008 We dare not expect perfection in any of our churches, so I caution about trusting something just because it is under the umbrella of Calvary Chapel or Chuck Smith Sr. I will listen to Warren Smith when my husband isn't watching UCLA on tv! must be quiet for now................. I wanted to add that Chuck Smith Jr is the most unbelievably fantastic thinker, the most sensitive and emotionally honest pastor I've ever known. He is not pastoring now and I wonder what God is doing with him. I have read everything I could find via google, but I wanted to add my two cents worth that his de facto dissociation with Calvary Chapel was long before the final contemplative issue. He simply was in another league. I cannot say enough positive things about him. He loves his father and I'm sure the events of this past year have been excruciating for both men. I guess I advocate healthy scepticism. Missler was warning of Y2K and we know what happened there. He is impressive, though, and I enjoy reading what he has to say. As Patsy Clairemont says, we're all cracked pots. Hopefully His light shines through the cracks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,338 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Here is a link to an article (also by Warren Smith) that I posted a while back concerning Rick Warren. I contacted the writer of the article to varify his facts and contacted SaddleBack Church and was told that the contents of the article were correct but had been misconstrued. When I asked for an explaination I was cut off. I also contacted Billy Graham's ministry and my call was never returned. Take from this what you will. My goal is simply to inform others of what I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamiam Posted February 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 188 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2008 Still haven't listened to the tape but did read the article criticizing Rick Warren for body count evangelizing and celebrity name dropping, etc. Ok, guys, I'm so unimpressed with Warren Smith. I sat in the church the morning Rick Warren told of buying out the theatres and of inviting prominent local civic leaders. His goal, besides bringing non-believers to hear the message of the gospel, was to show Hollywood that Gibson's movie could bring in some crowds. Attendance matters. As far as celebrity name dropping, another good grief. Saddleback is in south Orange County, one of the garden spots of the country and celebrities live in south Orange County. We've heard John Tesh, Randy Travis, and others there. There is so much talent in the body that Sunday morning worship is like a concert. Saddleback is near the beach, guys. The surfing analogy fits as we are near the beach! We had a music intern from Saddleback live with us for two years and there was a wetsuit hanging in my garage right by his surfboard the whole time. Chuck Smith Jr's church is right next to Dana Point harbor, surfing land. Right before we moved to the desert, Saddleback was asking those of us who could to attend Saturday services or the earliest service to make parking available for new attendees. Then they began shuttling people in who could park off campus. There are sooooo many people who try out Saddleback. Some stay, some filter into other churches, some don't like it. Let's get over the numbers is a good idea, but let's not miss the point that Saddleback swarms with people who are trying out hearing the gospel. It is an amazing place. By the way, I looked through my copy of PDLife last night and couldn't find any reference to Seigel. Anyone know where it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts