WorthyNewsBot Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Bots Followers: 3 Topic Count: 39,879 Topics Per Day: 6.45 Content Count: 44,435 Content Per Day: 7.19 Reputation: 987 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/06/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2008 IDF soldiers entered the Gaza Strip on Saturday morning and began operating near the northern Strip town of Sajaiya. http://www.worthynews.com/news/ynetnews-co...513113,00-html/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted March 2, 2008 IDF soldiers entered the Gaza Strip on Saturday morning and began operating near the northern Strip town of Sajaiya. http://www.worthynews.com/news/ynetnews-co...513113,00-html/ Does anyone doubt that if Hamas in Gaza stopped firing rockets into Israel, acknowledged Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Only when we have read through several paragraphs do we read of the rockets that continue to reign on Israel, and even then the attacks are watered down, made to appear insignificant. The rockets from Gaza are made to appear that they are in response to Israeli killings and Israeli intrusion when just the opposite is the case. Oh - I noticed this too . . . big time! On the Jewish site Arutz Sheva you can get some idea of what is actually happening in Israel. I checked this out, and at the top of the article, it said: (IsraelNN.com) Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, speaking before Sunday morning's weekly Cabinet meeting, staunchly defended Israel's anti-rocket offensive in Gaza, and delivered a retort to various international elements that offered criticism. "I do not recall that I heard from those who now criticize us," Olmert said, "when Israeli citizens in southern Israel were attacked." Yup, I've noticed this, too. Is Reuters anti-Semitic? You think?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elchingen Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 28 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/04/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) A thorough course in the history of the events in Israel would be instructive. Your comments are the equivalent of a Southern slave-holder complaining about abolitionist sympathies when slaves revolt. For all intents and purposes, the peoples of Palestine are oppressed. Their water and electricity are rationed. Their land is forcably seized by Israelis, and from the new settlements built on the seized land, the settlers randomly attack any Palestinians near them. The IDF is not permitted to stop the settlers from doing so, and in fact are powerless to stop frequent rioting and assaults that occur too often and are never reported in any major news networks that I know of. Christians, if they wish to support Israel, ought to have a complete picture of exactly what is happening. If it seems ridiculous that a few desperate people would blow themselves up, look into why they are doing so. You will find that the pattern of abuse, dehumanization, torture, and fear that the Palestinians are regularly subjected to by Israel should have had a more savage response, given the circumstances, then anything we have ever seen. Please remember that although Christians and Jews alike see it as "Israels land", at the end of the day the Palestinians have been forcably removed from what was theirs, and for no other reason than that they happned to have been where they were not wanted. I do not think that Christ cries any less for every Palestinian soul as He surely does for any Israel one lost. For us in Christ, isn't every one a precious soul deserving of salvation? And are we to judge those of the world--even Israel? But it is the Lords' to judge and not ours, and nor should we cheer when any are killed. Indeed, support for Israel as it is now should certainly be questioned when it is a nation and people not wholely dissimilar from those that crucified our Lord. Show me the Spirit and I will show you support for Israel. In Christ. Edited March 2, 2008 by Elchingen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Elchingen, I repeat the first sentence of my post: Does anyone doubt that if Hamas in Gaza stopped firing rockets into Israel, acknowledged Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Elchingen - Israel made the initiative towards peace by surrendering Gaza - and look what happened. All the greenhouses Israel built - which did provide a substantial income to the region - were destroyed by the Palestinians when they took the land over. Is Israeli "oppression" to blame for their stupid actions? Since taking over Gaza, the Palestinians keep firing rockets into Israel . . . you may not hear about it much in the mainstream media, but it has been a constant bombardment of rockets the people of Israel have had to suffer. What justification is there for this? Israel gave a concession by giving the Palestinians land for them to build themselves up with? And what have they done with this land? Why have they not returned the favor to Israel that they were given? Why did they destroy the greenhouses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elchingen Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 28 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/04/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) Nebula and Oldtimer: I'm making no attempt to defend violent acts on either side. That is not my point. It is always regretable when a people resort to violence to attempt to achieve some meaningful end. As I said above, the history of the conflict here bears revisiting in order to understand the nature and root of the "conflict". As far as greenhouses go, I'm not familiar with that issue. I can only assume, however, that since the ration of water is so crippling for Palestinians, it serves to reason that there is little or no water supplied to those greenhouses after the Israeli settlers left, hence the "retreat", or "abandonement", of Gaza by the settlers--forced as it were--was a mixed "blessing" for the Palestinian residents of Gaza. Likewise, it should be noted that although the Israeli settlers left Gaza, Israel always made clear that they had a right, and intended to exercise it, to patrol, occupy, or reoccupy Gaza at any time they wished. This does not technically constitute "giving back" a territory. All of these things are occuring today, btw, with the standard backround of humiliation, torture, human rights abuse, and outright murder of the Palestinians on a daily basis by either the IDF or Israeli settlers, even as plush new settlements are erected beside the decrepit and poverty stricken hovels where the Palestinians live in the West Bank. To answer the question of whether or not there would be peace if Hamas stopped the rocket attacks; for the past forty years many people have wondered if any level of restraint by Israel might free the Palestinians--and has not. The question is whether or not Israel wants peace, not if the Palestinians do. That is, the one beating another man to death can not rightly assert that if this man on the ground were to stop blocking his blows, could he be brought to stop beating him? I use this analogy because to date, that is, as of the past two days, two mor three Israelis have been killed and over 100 Palestinians have been killed. This ratio is pretty much the norm as far as "attacks" and "counter-attacks" go in this conflict, and it is what would be expected given that the Palestinians are poverty-stricken and the IDF has a vast arsenal paid for in US tax dollars. I only seek to interject a bit of realistic perspective here. It is a complicated and difficult situation no matter what side you view it from. In Christ. (NOTE: I ran a search on "Gaza greenhouses" and found that the remaining 100 hectares of greenhouses, out of 400 original, were in fact being used by Gaza residents to grow and export produce. You can find a few other articles, all from two and half years ago, about this.) Edited March 2, 2008 by Elchingen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I only seek to interject a bit of realistic perspective here. It is a complicated and difficult situation no matter what side you view it from. Yes I'm sure it looks "realistic" from several thousand miles away Ahhh ..... the luxury of watching war movies......... But you know....... God is in control and what we say here has no influence on God's plan I trust God. NOT the media Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Eichingen, Without going into a detailed history of the Israel-Palestinian conflict let me just address one statement you made: The question is whether or not Israel wants peace, not if the Palestinians do. That drives me to tears! When the State of Israel was created by the United Nations in 1947 and given statehood in 1948 the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,272 Content Per Day: 4.88 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Elchingen, I repeat the first sentence of my post: Does anyone doubt that if Hamas in Gaza stopped firing rockets into Israel, acknowledged Israel's right to exist and made a genuine effort toward a peaceful coexistence with Israel that peace could come to the area? No, what you say is true. If Hamas did those things and meant it, peace would come. But, that will never happen. The world will be deceived for a short time when peace is declared for 7 years. But it will be a false peace and end after 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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