Worshippers of Death

[WillingToDie]

That their view of God is skewed. I see it as a reinterpretation of Judaism, fit for the Arab people.

You don't see a problem there?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[That their view of God is skewed. I see it as a reinterpretation of Judaism, fit for the Arab people.

I know you didn't mean it this way, but your right............it is a god fit for people who abuse and abase women and children, who have no value on human life, and who follow a false god.

This statement is dripping with racism and xenophobia.

Islam/Muslim is not a "race."

Yes, but he was saying that it was "fit for people who abuse and abase women and children, who have no value on human life, and who follow a false god", referring to Arabs.

So yes, I still hold that there was a degree of racism and xenophobia behind SPs statement.

No, you are trying to make it "racism" in order to have a reason to criticize the statement. The fact is, over half the world's Muslim population is not Arabic, and Muslim/Islam is not a race. Islamic culture is brutal and oppressive. That is not a raciist comment, it is just the truth.

Islam does not have a separation of secular and religious, or a separationg of religion and government like we have here in the West. Islam is, at the same time the relgion and the government. There is no difference between the two. Muslim culture is based on the relgion. In the West Christianity is just one component of West Culture, but in in Islam, Islam is the culture.

The oppression, gender apartheid, poverty, brutality (female mutilation, honor killings) is part of Islam. When one looks at countries where Islam is the majority, ruling ideology, there is nothing but persecution/murder of nonMuslims, poverty, oppression, bloodshed and hate. Islam has not given anything good to world. All it does is destroy. Islam is a blight on humanity. It is a disease that needs a cure, namely Muslims need Christ. He is the cure for the sickness that is Islam.

No, in context, it is a comment with racist undertones. I said that Islam is a reinterpretation of Judaism fir for the Arab people, and she then made her comment .

Most of the brutality you see in today's Muslim countries is due in large part to culture. Yes, today many muslim countries are oppressive, but this is not historically the case. When the Muslims controlled Jerusalem before the Crusades, they were very tolerant of Judaism and Christianity.

And if Muslims are inherently violent people, then why are the several million muslims in America not going on killing sprees? The truth is that only a small minority of Muslims worldwide are violent.

Yes there are passages in the Koran that call for violence towards non-believers, but there are also passages that call for tolerance for Christians and Jews. The book contradicts itself, but this is not to be expected, as it is a man-made book.

[David of Derby]

Most of the brutality you see in today's Muslim countries is due in large part to culture. Yes, today many muslim countries are oppressive, but this is not historically the case. When the Muslims controlled Jerusalem before the Crusades, they were very tolerant of Judaism and Christianity.

Actually, the Seljuk invasion and capture of the Holy Land caused the Crusades; prior to their arrival Jerusalem was controlled by a different sect of Moslems who allowed Christians and Jews to come and go without hindrance. The Seljuks were intolerant of other faiths and closed the Holy Land to pilgrims. They also threatened to conquer the Orthodox Byzantine Empire and remove the Christian buffer between the Catholic world and Islam... but that's another story.

This was just another case of fanatics and maniacs overtaking the moderates and causing trouble as a result. We proved Christian and Moslem could live side by side back then, but lunatic zealots on the Moslem side picked a fight and lunatic zealots on the Christian side gave them one.

[nebula]

Where are these Koran quotes? I didn't see anyone quote the Koran,

Ah - you didn't click on the link Joe gave you, did y ou?

Well, here it is again - http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

5:72-73: They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God, - God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (trick in war for deceiving and outwitting the enemy); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God, - He will never let their deeds be lost.

[damo1]

Ah, that old chestnut. That's no better than a child saying "wouldn't you like to know" when asked how he knows something.

The world has come a long way since the middle ages, but, you've obviously missed the point. Christianity as progressed past the blood-letting and witch-hunting (or at least, most of Christianity has) but Islam hasn't existed that long. Islam is still in that stage. How much simpler can I make it?

Where are these Koran quotes? I didn't see anyone quote the Koran, I just saw Scarlet make a series of flat statements with nothing to support them.

Why do I support Islam? I don't. I just don't like bigotry. Many in this thread are displaying the same attitudes I'd expect from an Inquisitor in the 15th century.

damo1

to david

why have you not been doing your own leg work are you thinking of joining this false religon ? i do not like bigotry either but when the hard facts are right in front of you why is it so hard to hear or listen to what is being said hear

if you say these cluts are a peace full people i would like you to pm and i can invite you to come to the phillippines with me and i wil take you to one part of the phillippines were these cluts want full control of an island to were it becomes an islamic state these cluts have shown no respect to my partner or her people or have they obeyed the laws of the land

they want full control were a magority of those that live on this island are filapinos

if you say this is a peace full religon why has the abu sayiff gone into hidding and why does this group terrorise the locals ? not only have they terroised the locals they have killed of sevral soldiers to were these soldiers have had their heads cut off the women they kidnap never come out alive most end up as their sex slaves and when they are tired of the women they have had for over 6 or 7 yrs they go out in pacts looking for new women they do not care if they have familys or have a partner

for you to say this to the rest of us david it is making me think real hard on what you have been saying hear

you say you are a christian but i wonder david were your heart is at if you feel for these cluts how about joining them and taking on what ever they believe in

have you done your own leg work like we have have you talked to muslims that have given their hearts to god ? or do you just go by your own observation of what you only alow your self to listen to ?

i also have muslim friends david and they have said to me that it does tell them to beat up their wifes their wifes have not got the freedom our women have their women have to cover them selves when in public their women work hard and obey what their husbands say and if a women shows disrespect to her husband she is beaten up its as simple as that in my country a man who does this to a women can be arrested and thrown in jail

we have seen this in australia and know we screen all muslims wanting to live hear we have seen how they do not mix they stick to them selves were with other cultured groups they do blend in

most muslims will look down on you in this country yet they also are aware with the new laws passed if they step out of line try this stance hear they can loose their citazen ship and can be sent back to their country our goverment has taken a diffrent approach with this group as we do not want to see what has been going on in iraq and in other parts of the world were you have bombs planted in malls in bus stops and in schools were suicide bombers are killing us off

they also have been told that their will never be to were this country is an islamic state as sevral muslims want sharia law passed hear in australia and our goverment has bluntly said no the muslims have been told to respect our laws or get out its as simple as that

our goverment listens to us christians more than what the their koran has to say and i am glad my goverment has its head on and has not done what has been done in america to were muslims have more rights than some of my brothers and sisters do and know you have the vatican wanting to embrace this false religon

my goverment does its own leg work on this false religon just like us australians do when it comes to this false religon i have done my own leg work on this false religon and when i finished reading the koran i burnt the book and prayed that nothing sticks to me as their were times i had to throw the book to the side but when it comes to the bible i can read it and not throw it to the side as i did with the koran

allah is not god allah is a false god mohammed is no true prophet he is just a cluts david

do you think its ok to stone a man or a women to death if a women says she has been raped she gets sent to jail if a muslim women wants divorce she has to pay retribution to her husband

for now on what ever you say david i wil put to the side as this has shown me were you are at as i said if you like what the koran has to say then join their cause and while you are beating your partner up and telling her to cover her self up think hard of what jesus did for us on the cross

these people need jesus not the koran david please do not waste my time do some leg work and while you are at it david let the holy spirit open your eyes to this false religon

if you feel by what has been said to you is all lies

you are your own person david you have a free will and i am not going to take that free will off you you are your own man and its time you do your own leg work and stop asking us to give you quotes from the koran

just dont come down on the rest of us who have shared openly and honestly to you on this forum i am being very cival with you david try to do the same with the rest of us

god bless from damo

[David of Derby]

Ah - you didn't click on the link Joe gave you, did y ou?

Well, here it is again - http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

5:72-73: They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God, - God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (trick in war for deceiving and outwitting the enemy); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God, - He will never let their deeds be lost.

Those quotes read a lot like the Old Testament, don't you think? I also like the helpful little notes in brackets that neatly define the context of the quotes. I wonder how outsiders would see Christianity with a few carefully selected Bible quotes with neat little notes attached...

[Guest]

Where are these Koran quotes? I didn't see anyone quote the Koran, I just saw Scarlet make a series of flat statements with nothing to support them.

Well Pilgrim, We DID Show You The Link Once http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

David It Almost Seems Like You Are Trying To Provoke Christians To Post What Is Just A Click Away For A Smart Fellow Like Yourself! http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Titus 3:9

You See David, I Will Not Besmirch The Halls Of Worthy With Satanic Verse From The Unholy Koran

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:5

And Poor David You Even Seen To Act As The Accuser Of The Brethren

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1

>>>>><<<<<

I See You Spouting The Standard Slandered History Of Christians According To The Atheist

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake." Matthew 24:9

If You Truly Know The Nature Of The Lord Jesus Christ, David I Believe You Could Not Rail Upon His Martyred Disciples Down Through The Ages With The Devil's Own Lies

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

>>>>><<<<<

David Do You Know God The Son?

"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3

Did You Hear His Call?

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

Do You Believe?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18

>>>>><<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[David of Derby]

Joe, what does any of that actually mean? I see the link, what's the rest of that about? Bible verses that have no apparent relevence? What atheist slander? Please explain.

[Guest man]

No, in context, it is a comment with racist undertones. I said that Islam is a reinterpretation of Judaism fir for the Arab people, and she then made her comment .

Most of the brutality you see in today's Muslim countries is due in large part to culture. Yes, today many muslim countries are oppressive, but this is not historically the case. When the Muslims controlled Jerusalem before the Crusades, they were very tolerant of Judaism and Christianity.

And if Muslims are inherently violent people, then why are the several million muslims in America not going on killing sprees? The truth is that only a small minority of Muslims worldwide are violent.

Yes there are passages in the Koran that call for violence towards non-believers, but there are also passages that call for tolerance for Christians and Jews. The book contradicts itself, but this is not to be expected, as it is a man-made book.

Why are you defending this religion?

Are you of the muslim faith?

[nebula]

Those quotes read a lot like the Old Testament, don't you think?

No, I don't.

If this is how you interpret the OT, I worry about how you understand the Lord.

I also like the helpful little notes in brackets that neatly define the context of the quotes. I wonder how outsiders would see Christianity with a few carefully selected Bible quotes with neat little notes attached...

Perhaps you would perfer this site:

http://www.carm.org/islam/jihad.htm

and

http://www.carm.org/islam/terrorism.htm

I challenge you to read it. And I dare you compare that to the OT.

[Guest shiloh357]

No, in context, it is a comment with racist undertones.

There was no racism at all in her posts. Again, that is a value that YOU are assigning to her comment. Let's re-examine SP's comment. She said, "it is a god fit for people who abuse and abase women and children, who have no value on human life, and who follow a false god."

She did not say anything about the Arab people. The word "Arab" does not appear in that comment, and since nearly 1/2 of the Muslim world is not Arabic, you cannot assign a racist tag to her comments with any kind of legitimacy.

I said that Islam is a reinterpretation of Judaism fir for the Arab people, and she then made her comment .

And that shows how little you know about the religion of Judaism. Islam is not a reworking of Judaism at all. I am amazed at the over-simplicity of thought with which you approach this. The core values of Judaism are not at all reflected in the abomination of Islam. Judaism is far and away superior to Islam on every level.

Most of the brutality you see in today's Muslim countries is due in large part to culture. Yes, today many muslim countries are oppressive, but this is not historically the case. When the Muslims controlled Jerusalem before the Crusades, they were very tolerant of Judaism and Christianity.

But only for a season. What you fail to understand is that Islam does not separate religion and culture. The religion is the culture and the culture is the religion. They are one and the same. It is for that reason that they see all of the pornography exported from the United States to other countries as the product of "Christianity." They see America as a Christian nation and thus, pornography is viewed as the outworking of Christianity. Our soldiers in Iraq are seen as Christian crusaders and that point is made on the evening news quite regularly. They see this as religious war that they have been engaged since the crusades. It is all about Islam, and making the world Islam. There is no separation in their minds of religion and government or religion and state.

And if Muslims are inherently violent people, then why are the several million muslims in America not going on killing sprees? The truth is that only a small minority of Muslims worldwide are violent.

First of all, I did not say that Muslims are "inherently violent." Don't put words in my mouth. Historically, in every country where Islam is in the minority they are peaceful. But in every country where they become the majority or start becoming the majority, they become less and less tolerant of their host country.

Secondly, one thing you need to understand is that there are some Muslims the US who are not practicing Muslims. They have values of freedom, equality, social justice, and support freedom of speech, freed of religion and so forth. But that is not a reflection on Islam. It is because they are not connected in any meaningful way to Islam and have adopted western values as opposed to the values of Islam. One can be a Muslim in name only in the United States. However, that is not possible in Islamic countries.

Thirdly, this notion of "its just a small minority of Muslims who are violent" is just a liberal fairytale. But I'll tell you what... I will for the sake of argument agree with that assessment. Let's say that that only .1% of the Muslims worldwide are violent. Now given that population sits about 1 billion Muslims worldwide, .1% of that would 1 Million. Would you like to have that small minority of 1 Million suicide bombers unleashed in your country??? Even a small minority, is still way too many. The fact is that there are far more than .1% of Islam involved in terrorism, and even if you are only counting the ones who actually carry out the deed, you still have to take into consideration, all of those in support positions who worked behind the scenes to make the attacks successful. They are terrorists too, and the number increases radically when you take all of the support teams and masterminds who actually thought up and provided the finances, transportation, equipment, planning, support, encouragment and inspiration necessary major and minor terror attacks to take place.