Question regarding age of universe & light from distant stars

[mikeinsarasota]

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".

So what about the things that we do have enough facts concerning to be able to form reasonable conclusions, like a heliocentric solar system. The Bible clearly states the earth does not move.

And by simply giving up on all the things science doesn't know at the time and saying, "Goddidit," is a good way to degenerate human knowledge until we're left with nothing but mysticism. That's what primitive cultures used to do. I like to think we've gotten a bit smarter since then.

[Gerioke]

From where I stand, the universe didn't come into existence until august, 11, 1959. Anything before that is simply hearsay.

So it's possible to make assertions like this and impossible for me to disprove them. Big deal. What's your point? When we do any astronomical research we work from the assumption that the universe is several billion years old. Whether or not this is true is in this specific case irrelevant because due to the weird one way nature of time it's impossible to know for sure and it therefore makes sense to assume that the universe is old because if we do, our models work and we can make accurate predictions of future data.

(wow, that was convoluted, where's my eloquence gone? )

What kind of predictions?

While you don't use the age of the universe to make predictions directly, some of the parts that go into its calculation are important to other aspects of astronomy and large scale physics. For example, the acceleration of the universe is not only used to calculate its age, it also determines the shape of the universe and its final fate.

So you're talking about predictions that can't immediately be proven, which means you really don't know how accurate you are.

Wow. Talk about faith.

[Gerioke]

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".

So what about the things that we do have enough facts concerning to be able to form reasonable conclusions, like a heliocentric solar system. The Bible clearly states the earth does not move.

And by simply giving up on all the things science doesn't know at the time and saying, "Goddidit," is a good way to degenerate human knowledge until we're left with nothing but mysticism. That's what primitive cultures used to do. I like to think we've gotten a bit smarter since then.

That's what got us into trouble in the first place.

[mikeinsarasota]

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".

So what about the things that we do have enough facts concerning to be able to form reasonable conclusions, like a heliocentric solar system. The Bible clearly states the earth does not move.

And by simply giving up on all the things science doesn't know at the time and saying, "Goddidit," is a good way to degenerate human knowledge until we're left with nothing but mysticism. That's what primitive cultures used to do. I like to think we've gotten a bit smarter since then.

That's what got us into trouble in the first place.

Are you saying being smart (using the brains God gave us) is a bad thing, and gets us into trouble? Then why did He give them to us, if we're better off not using them?

[Gerioke]

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".

So what about the things that we do have enough facts concerning to be able to form reasonable conclusions, like a heliocentric solar system. The Bible clearly states the earth does not move.

And by simply giving up on all the things science doesn't know at the time and saying, "Goddidit," is a good way to degenerate human knowledge until we're left with nothing but mysticism. That's what primitive cultures used to do. I like to think we've gotten a bit smarter since then.

That's what got us into trouble in the first place.

Are you saying being smart (using the brains God gave us) is a bad thing, and gets us into trouble? Then why did He give them to us, if we're better off not using them?

Being smart isn't a bad thing. Thinking we're smarter than we really are is.

[MorningGlory]

Not at all. These were just examples. The shape of the universe also has to do with dark matter (the 'stuff' holding galaxies together), dark energy (the 'stuff' forcing the universe apart) and the unification of relativity with quantum mechanics. Many such questions will be answered or moved further along the way to being answered when the Large Hadron Collider opens up later this year.

I must have had my head in the sand, cache. What is a Large Hadron Collider and where is it going to open up???

[hr.jr.]

Things are not very old at all and there is much evidence to the contrary.

Let's talk. Please present one peice of evidence that the universe is young and we'll take it from there.

Got Bible

Got Bible. Where do you place the occurrence of Isa. 14:12-14 and Ezek. 28:11-17 in your Young Earth model? In verse 1 of Genesis 1, God Created the Heaven and the Earth. That would encompass the creation of the angels. That would also encompass the creation of the place mentioned in these two passages. Satan was created when? He rebelled and ruled when? Satan's rebellion was going on during the Creation? That is why I have a theological problem with young earth.

[MorningGlory]

From the wikipedia article.

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is a particle accelerator located at CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. It lies in a tunnel under France and Switzerland.

It is currently in the final stages of construction, and commissioning, with some sections already being cooled down to its final operating temperature of ~2K (−271

[mikeinsarasota]

They'll be producing energies not seen since a trillionth of a second after the big bang. Far out. I think it's a good time to be a particle physicist. Kind of like being a theoretical physicist during the first 30 years of the 20th century.

[mikeinsarasota]

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".

So what about the things that we do have enough facts concerning to be able to form reasonable conclusions, like a heliocentric solar system. The Bible clearly states the earth does not move.

And by simply giving up on all the things science doesn't know at the time and saying, "Goddidit," is a good way to degenerate human knowledge until we're left with nothing but mysticism. That's what primitive cultures used to do. I like to think we've gotten a bit smarter since then.

That's what got us into trouble in the first place.

Are you saying being smart (using the brains God gave us) is a bad thing, and gets us into trouble? Then why did He give them to us, if we're better off not using them?

Being smart isn't a bad thing. Thinking we're smarter than we really are is.

So are you saying we're no smarter than primitive cultures?