Gerioke Posted May 29, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Could you please explain the significance of your quotes? It's much better in a discussion if you give your quotes and explain them or their relevance. That particular piece of scripture indicates that we are not to keep our faith to ourselves. I figured if I got it, you would get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 871 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2008 Even if this hadn't come to mind, why not just allow one to have their own beliefs? It isn't up to me (or any of us) to allow or disallow you to believe anything. What's up with that? You have come to a Christian forum as Gerioke pointed out. What do you expect to find here? I will offer this though. The frame of mind of every true believer is like the researcher who discovers the cure for cancer. He should want to share his research with everyone who will listen so that they too can benefit from his research. We have discovered the Way, Truth and Life and want everyone to experience what we have. It is a cure for spiritual leprosy...ane even our Lord told His children that he doesn't want to see one perish. So that's how we look at it buddy. Very nice brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2008 Speaking only for myself, I do not "push" my beliefs on anyone. I am, however, ready to answer any questions someone has for me. I also have discussed my views on subjects that are being discussed. I give them my reason. I then allow the Holy Spirit to work in that persons life. It is not my job to "change" anyone. I can only be a witness of my savior Jesus Christ as best as I can, with His help. Bible thumping, as it is called, is not something I do. I live my life as an example, and if someone likes what they see, they inquire. Even Jesus spoke the truth to all, lived as an example, and allowed sinners to sin. He knew that "man" will live according to what they hold closest to their heart. He spoke the truth and let it sink in where the Holy Spirit could do His work. As I said, this is just my way of looking at the OP's question. God Bless, OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zer0 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Could you please explain the significance of your quotes? It's much better in a discussion if you give your quotes and explain them or their relevance. That particular piece of scripture indicates that we are not to keep our faith to ourselves. I figured if I got it, you would get it. Once again, debate the topic, not the debater. And thank you for clarifying the quotes. It's not that I don't understand them but rather that I skimmed over them and found no interpretation, so I didn't bother to read it as my interpretation may be different than what the intended one was. Looking at OneLight's post, I did as he had said, "inquire". Speaking only for myself, I do not "push" my beliefs on anyone. I am, however, ready to answer any questions someone has for me. I also have discussed my views on subjects that are being discussed. I give them my reason. I then allow the Holy Spirit to work in that persons life. It is not my job to "change" anyone. I can only be a witness of my savior Jesus Christ as best as I can, with His help. Bible thumping, as it is called, is not something I do. I live my life as an example, and if someone likes what they see, they inquire. Even Jesus spoke the truth to all, lived as an example, and allowed sinners to sin. He knew that "man" will live according to what they hold closest to their heart. He spoke the truth and let it sink in where the Holy Spirit could do His work. As I said, this is just my way of looking at the OP's question. God Bless, OneLight I think this has to be right up there with mommyof284's answer. Very well put. You have done probably what I was trying to get at - viewing for yourself and not taking immediate offence or quoting the bible - give your own personal evidence. I think you fully understood my question and answered it clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Just want to share the "cure" and save everyone from the suffering. Exactly. I think that too many of us think that we can "argue" someone into believing. It doesn't work that way and if anything, it pushes them further way. I watched a DVD of a man who once fought with the PLO. His name is Kamal Saleem and was a "career mercenary, working for the cause of Jihad" While he was in the United States working underground, he had a car accident in which he broke his back. He was taken care of by some Christian men who not once quoted Scripture but simply allowed the love of Jesus to show through them. They took care of his medical bills, fed him and even provided a place for him to stay while he recovered. It was a great story but in the end, he had a "Damascus Road" experiecne and discovered Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You can find a copy at http://www.coldwatermedia.com/merchant2/me...;Category_Code= I highly recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zer0 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Very well said. Some believe they can get someone into believing by "arguing" or being too pushy or condemning. I'm only speculating here, so I may be wrong on this but I think some of this can be due to people wanting to help. From their view, they're doing something good but from the perspective of the receiver of this, it seems to be pushy. I think there may be another group that is well aware of their pushiness and continue to do this. However, I think this group is smaller. I've had experience with these kinds of people and they seemed to be well aware that they were definately being pushy (when I was more into Theistic Satanism). If this isn't clear, I'll try to represent it below: CHRISTIANS / \ / \ / \ More open More getting others to believe -minded / \ / \ / \ Doing so to help Intentionally being pushy or condemning NOTE: This diagram won't include ALL Christians but hopefully will include most of the group being referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I'm only speculating here, so I may be wrong on this but I think some of this can be due to people wanting to help. No, you're right and I would add another reason. Some believers are simply immature in their FAITH and/or not unsure exactly what or why they believe what they do. We rarely know another man's heart and mind; only God can judge our motives for doing the things and saying the things we do. I remember back when I was trapped in a state of unbelief. I made fun of those well-meaning evangelistic Christians who would do their best to convert me and then leave me with a simple, "you're going to hell" threat. What they couldn't grasp was that I didn't care because I didn't believe in hell...or heaven. Now many years later, as a believer, I look back on them with a lot of compassion and love. They meant well for the most part and maybe even planted some seed that I wasn't fully aware of. Regardless, when I came to the Lord, I came because He made Himself real to me. It had nothing to do with threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted May 30, 2008 What many immature Christians fail to realize is that it is one's actions, not one's words that bring people to Christ. Bible-thumping doesn't work; sprinkling a conversation with "Christian" aphorisms or charismatic jargon doesn't work; the Crusades showed us that giving someone the choice of converting or dying doesn't work. What works is being genuine with the person in front of you and you can't do that until you are genuine with the God above you. That requires humility. Well spoken and right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted May 30, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Zero, I think I understand your question, as to Why. From an atheist stand point because they do not believe in anything outside of physical experience, they understand motivations from that stand point. If some one believes something different and it doesn't negatively affect "me" then why should I care, leave them alone and life will be good. What you need to do, to understand, is put yourself in the mind frame of the Christian. In the Christian's deep core belief you are in a very grave situation. You are in grave danger and you don't even know it. This is not just words, truly we believe this with all our heart, mind, and soul. Life seems really good to you but we can see the horrific ending. We can also see a path that has the most wonderful of endings (actually beginnings). The example of the car and bridge is a good analogy. God calls us to love even our enemies, not something easy to do. In fact impossible with out his help. The reason you can not understand why, to our motivations, is because it is outside of your understanding of reality. From your prespective it makes no sense. In fact the Bible says Gods ways will seem as folly to the world. A good example is the Gay life style. Why should we care, its there business leave it alone. Again back to the car driver. If that was your children in the car, how hard would you try to stop them, would you just try one time and then leave it alone. To God your soul, ZerO's soul, is more precious than the lives of your children are to you. Now from that prespective, should we really just give up on you? God Bless, K.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zer0 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 From my perspective, I really don't care about whether I go to a nirvana, heaven or to a horrible place, Hell. I don't believe in either one of them. From your perspective Kansasdad, I understand where you're coming from. The non-believers can be considered as "lost" or "unsaved", and the believers are supposed to be able to understand that the non-believers will all suffer an eternity of torment. I guess from that view it could be a bit uncomfortable. However, that would imply that if a non-believer were to convert for this reason, it would merely be to please the believer. I don't live my life to please others so to me, I wouldn't believe. This seems to be yet again, another example of the pushiness. You mean well, however, from my perspective, it's the classic pushy and condemning views. Kansasdad, I suggest you read Rufus of Cyrene's post: "is that it is one's actions, not one's words that bring people to Christ. Bible-thumping doesn't work; sprinkling a conversation with "Christian" aphorisms or charismatic jargon doesn't work; the Crusades showed us that giving someone the choice of converting or dying doesn't work" The whole Bible-thumping and other things Rufus of Cyrene points out don't work. I've had many Christians do this and, for some non-believers, it may work but for me, it won't do anything. In fact, the bible thumping is one of the things that led me away from christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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