CU4EVER Posted June 19, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 16 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1960 Share Posted June 19, 2008 The Anti-Christ will rule all people, tongues, and nations (Revelation 13:7). I believe that you are referring to the ten crowns on the ten horns on the seven headed beast that John sees in Revelation 13. Most scholars would say that the crowns represent kingdoms or naitons. The European Union has very similar boundaries of what the old Roman Empire would have had. In fact, if the European Neighborhood Policy is in effect, the boundaries are exactly the same. The Antichrist may in fact come from the European Union and more specifically, be from the Western European Union. The Western European Union is the same as the European Union with some exceptions. There are only 10 countries that have permanent voting powers. Also all military power lays in the same Western European Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted June 19, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2008 Excellent posts George! BlindSeeker, The second beast, in 13:11 comes up out of the earth, not a bottomless pit. The imagery (to me) denotes an individual man (for man, singular, came from the dust of the earth). To me this man, or a position held by a succession of men, has two horns as a lamb which makes him appear to be for peace, but when he speaks it is to justify the agenda of the dragon . . . war and destruction. This eighth beast is either a direct descendant of the seventh beast, or it is a conglomeration of them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted June 19, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2008 By BlindSeeker: If the first beast is "a political system or kingdom" why then would the second beast which "exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him" be "a religious entity?" Sounds more like an individual ruler over a nation than a religious leader. Look past the Rev.13:11 verses at what the "another beast" does. He comes working great wonders, miracles and makes fire (lightning) come down from heaven to the earth. That's a religious miracle show. He causes an idol image to be setup (I believe the "abomination of desolation"), and for all that refuse to bow in worship to it to be killed. He comes symbolically as a 'lamb' with two horns, but speaks as a dragon. That's about deception. So his exercising all the power of the first beast (system over the earth) means he sits over it. That's the king-entity relationship sitting over the first beast, controlling the first beast. Recall the historical king of Babylon, and how he setup a gold idol image in false worship, and at the sound of the psalter all knees were to bow to it in false worship. Those who didn't bow like Daniel, were persecuted. Remember what the Babylon whore says about herself in Rev.18:7. How does that relate to that king entity, and exercising power over the first beast (political system over all nations)? Rev 18:7 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (KJV) She says of herself, "I sit a queen, and am no widow...". If she's no widow, and sits as a queen, then it means she is married to a king. So who's the king? The whore rides that first beast, sitting in power over it. So does the king, the "another beast" rule with her, because he is married to her. That's why the OT symbolic references of the widow and city is important for Revelation... Isa 47:6-8 6 I was wroth with My people, I have polluted Mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke. 7 And thou saidst, 'I shall be a lady for ever:' so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it. 8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, 'I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:' (KJV) In the Isaiah 47 situation, Babylon says that about herself. The idea is that she is spiritually married and not a widow. That time period is when God had given His people and Jerusalem into the hand of Babylon, in captivity. Note her blasphemous declaration of, "I am, and none else beside me...". The 'I AM' is one of our Heavenly Father's sacred Names. Does that show what the enemy's aim for Jerusalem was about in that time? It was to take Jerusalem, the city where our Heavenly Father chose to dwell forever above all cities upon the earth, and try to steal what belongs to God. What entity has always wanted to do that, and it was similar to how he first rebelled against God in the beginning? We can't just say this or that flesh man, for even Nebuchadnezzar turned to God in the end, and was given to write the Daniel 4 chapter declaring our Heavenly Father's Glory. Lam 1:1-3 1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary! 2 She weepeth sore in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks: among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her: all her friends have dealt treacherously with her, they are become her enemies. 3 Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude: she dwelleth among the heathen, she findeth no rest: all her persecutors overtook her between the straits. (KJV) In the Lamentations example, Jerusalem is in a fallen state and in captivity. But here, God says she is as in widowhood. How do we decipher that widow symbolism between the historical examples, and the one in Revelation? Simple. When Jerusalem is in a fallen state away from God, to Him she is in spiritual widowhood and sits alone. But Jerusalem herself while in rebellion sees herself as no widow, but married and not in sorrow. In a fallen state, who is she married to if she says she's no widow? We know she's not married to our Heavenly Father in a fallen state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CU4EVER Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 16 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1960 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Daniels vision of end times interpreted reveals many details about the Anti-christ and the beast, Is the anti-christ revealed before or after the start of the tribulation? I am new to this message board thing. This is the first message board that I have ever registered on. I am very interested in prophetic events and enjoy good conversation about such events. Daniel 9:27 tells us that he (the antichrist) will confirm a covenant with many for one seven or for the final week of years (Daniels 70th week). I believe that this confirmation of the covenant will begin the 7 year tribulation period. That is the point at which the Antichrist will be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2008 Welcome to the Worthy Boards and the thread CU4EVER. Can you find another verse were it says that for 7 years the antichrist will confirm a covenant besides Daniel . . . . Celt, Do you think that Israel alone can qualifies as a widow? Paul says a widow is one who is truly desolate and with no means to care for herself. Sense Israel's reestablishment she has continually been dependent of foreign aid and America's military might as a back-up . . . do you really think they are not aware of their vulnerable state? Plus, Re 18:7 says she has "glorified herself, and lived deliciously," I certainly do not see that in Israel . . . but more importantly when she says "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2008 Celt, Do you think that Israel alone can qualifies as a widow? Paul says a widow is one who is truly desolate and with no means to care for herself. Sense Israel's reestablishment she has continually been dependent of foreign aid and America's military might as a back-up . . . do you really think they are not aware of their vulnerable state? Plus, Re 18:7 says she has "glorified herself, and lived deliciously," I certainly do not see that in Israel . . . but more importantly when she says "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2008 Celt, Do you think that Israel alone can qualifies as a widow? Paul says a widow is one who is truly desolate and with no means to care for herself. Sense Israel's reestablishment she has continually been dependent of foreign aid and America's military might as a back-up . . . do you really think they are not aware of their vulnerable state? Plus, Re 18:7 says she has "glorified herself, and lived deliciously," I certainly do not see that in Israel . . . but more importantly when she says "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CU4EVER Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 16 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1960 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Welcome to the Worthy Boards and the thread CU4EVER. Can you find another verse were it says that for 7 years the antichrist will confirm a covenant besides Daniel . . . . Celt, Do you think that Israel alone can qualifies as a widow? Paul says a widow is one who is truly desolate and with no means to care for herself. Sense Israel's reestablishment she has continually been dependent of foreign aid and America's military might as a back-up . . . do you really think they are not aware of their vulnerable state? Plus, Re 18:7 says she has "glorified herself, and lived deliciously," I certainly do not see that in Israel . . . but more importantly when she says "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thanks for the welcome. Good question. I am not aware of a scripture other than Daniel. However, if the tribulation period is a period of 7 years, then in Revelation 6:1-2, there is a picture of a rider on a white horse given a bow and a crown. Notice that there is no arrow which indicates that he conquers through means of peace, not war. Or . . . it may mean he really has no power, only an illusion thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted June 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2008 Certainly sense Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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