The ten nations that the Anti-christ will rule?

[Guest shiloh357]

For those interested, this thread is still about the idea of ten nations that antichrist will rule in the last days. That's the track I'm still on, although some others here are more determined to keep the pointer towards Rome and the West, or on anything except events in Jerusalem in the last days.

Some of us simply see the error of your assertion that Jerusalem is the whore of Revelation 17. Until correct your assertion, and give up on that ubiblical view, everything else you build on that false foundational premise will also be incorrect.

[methinkshe]

There is in existence a 10-nation European union. Here is a link.

Western European Union

The 28 WEU countries

10 Member States:

(also members of the EU and NATO)

Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy,

Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, United Kingdom

6 Associate Members:

(also members of NATO)

Czech Republic, Hungary, Iceland,

Norway, Poland, Turkey

5 Observers:

(also members of the EU)

Austria, Denmark, Finland,

Ireland, Sweden

7 Associate Partners:

(all have signed a Europe Agreement with the EU)

Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,

Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia

[CU4EVER]

There is in existence a 10-nation European union. Here is a link.

Western European Union

The 28 WEU countries

10 Member States:

(also members of the EU and NATO)

Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy,

Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, United Kingdom

6 Associate Members:

(also members of NATO)

Czech Republic, Hungary, Iceland,

Norway, Poland, Turkey

5 Observers:

(also members of the EU)

Austria, Denmark, Finland,

Ireland, Sweden

7 Associate Partners:

(all have signed a Europe Agreement with the EU)

Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,

Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia

Those ten nations you listed are the only members that have voting power in the WEU.

[Celt]

A Russian KGB defector of the 1960's (Golitsyn) in his work, 'New Lies For Old', said the plan for Europe was a socialist union from the Atlantic to the Urals. Europe is only one part of the equation. The underylying structure for the North American Union is already in the works (see Jereome Corsi's work). A Pacific Union of nations has also long been in the works. That has been the held strategy for the Trilateral Commission since its inception in 1972 by Rockefeller, Brezinski, and Jimmy Carter (founders), a three part world union system.

The one world government system will come down the line like God's Word declares. God's Word on prophecy is like reading tomorrow's newspapers. And if God said that fourth diverse beast system of Dan.7:23 and Rev.13:1 will cover the whole earth of all nations and peoples, then that's the way it's going to come down the line. We can count on it, even though today we may only see development stages and not a completion. Anything not fitting that whole earth strategy per Dan.7:23 is only hype.

[Godfearer]

i dont think the rapture is true. why would it be a tribulation at all if we wont be here? will the enemys people have tribulation? and if so who will be tribulizing them. the enemy? only christians have tribulation.

the rapture didnt come on the scene until 1830/1830ish. thats A.D. not B.C. margret mcdonald is the womans name who invented this. the word rapture isnt even in the bible. but dont take my word on this. study to shew thyself approved.

he who endureth until the end shall recieve eternal life.

it is my belief that what the bible refers to as the great falling away is going to be christians who believe in this rapture and when the antichrist is come will decieve people by saying he is Christ. he cant decieve them by saying im the devil and poke you with his sceptre. he will say brother, i am the Almighty. i love you. watch my miracles.

amos 5:18 Woe <01945> unto you that desire <0183> (8693) the day <03117> of the LORD <03068>! to what end <04100> is it for you? the day <03117> of the LORD <03068> is darkness <02822>, and not light <0216>.

editied:

when i said i dont believe the rapture is true i got ahead of myself. the word rapture comes from the greek word rapturo. it is translated as caught up( in the clouds) what i meant to say was pre-tribulation rapture. the elect will indeed be here. read the scripture. trust no man not even the priests. read Gods word for yourself and pray for understanding .

Edited July 27, 2008 by Godfearer

[John3;16]

"From: Godfearer

the rapture didnt come on the scene until 1830/1830ish. thats A.D. not B.C. margret mcdonald is the womans name who invented this. the word rapture isnt even in the bible. but dont take my word on this. study to shew thyself approved.

he who endureth until the end shall recieve eternal life.

amos 5:18 Woe <01945> unto you that desire <0183> (8693) the day <03117> of the LORD <03068>! to what end <04100> is it for you? the day <03117> of the LORD <03068> is darkness <02822>, and not light <0216>.

This post has been edited by Godfearer: Jul 27 2008, 05:19 PM

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From: Godfearer

[Godfearer]

no it dosent take a whole bunch of scripture to argue this.

Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

in fact i think that takes the arguement out of it.

the bible talks about a great falling away. that many will be decieved. who will do the decieving? none other than the father of lies. whom all lies come from. do not decieve yourself. trust no man not even the preists. do not simply believe something because some has told you. has the Holy Ghost told you that the pre trib is truth? it sounds good. and there is a lot of this feel good doctorine in the churches today. read the bible for yourself and ask God to show you truth on this.

in other words dont believe a lie. do you know who mystery babylon is? the great whore who rides on the back of the beast? mystery is unknown something unseen. what does the bible say God has hidden from our eyes? the spiritual realm. mystery babylon is a spiritual babylon. the root word for babylon and babel(tower of,) means the same thing, confusion. how are you confused? by believeing a lie. while we are on the topic of babylon lets go to the books of jerimiah and daniel. God brought his people under thier rule. can you not see that God church, ecclesia in the greek, Gods chosen or Gods called, the elect are being brought under this? can you see it? for proof of this just look at this forum where people are posting saying things like we must take action. and GOD gave us free will. he did no doubt. however he is soverign. could Jesus have gotten himself down from the cross? yeah he could but he drank the cup his father gave him. the servant is not greater than the master. jesus said some of us will be delivered up to be killed. can the enemy decieve many (by saying he is God which is why he fell as lightining in the first place) by showing up as a monster, a hideous beast? he will have power to snap his fingers and lightning come down, to heal the sick, to do miracles as the bible states. he will come as everything that the world thinks he is. and he wil say brother i am god bow before me. i have come to save you. to rapture you. no matter what he says it is a lie. and those who think we(Gods kids) will be gone from here are in danger of believing that lie.

i urge you to study what i have said and to seek God on this. on truth. for he is truth. do not simply go away from this screen and forget this. what i have said has been revealed to me by the Holy Ghost.(that we will be here for the tribulation) if i speak falsely i know what God has said he will do to those who are false teachers and false prophets. will i condemn myself??? (Jesus christ is the son of God, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. )

in jerimiah and daniels time, when God was finished using babylon to make his people serve them he judges babylon.

[Celt]

By shiloh357:

Some of us simply see the error of your assertion that Jerusalem is the whore of Revelation 17. Until correct your assertion, and give up on that ubiblical view, everything else you build on that false foundational premise will also be incorrect.

All you're doing is making an 'assumption' based on Rome theories concerning the Babylon harlot in Rev.17-18. You have no authority to tell me to correct what our Lord Jesus points to there in Revelation as Jerusalem being that harlot "great city" in the last days. Nor can you supply any Biblical evidence for that being Rome, for you're forced to go 'outside' God's Word for your sources, which of course means defaulting to men's traditions about the Rome theory.

But, the Biblical evidence that Revelation is pointing directly to Jerusalem as that Babylon harlot for the last days is what matters, not men's doctrines about Rome. (And I am NOT Catholic. I'm a Protestant Christian).

Rev 11:7-8

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.(KJV)

One must also look past their nose to put two and two together about those events Christ revealed that are to happen there in Jerusalem. That "beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" is the devil himself, for that was revealed back in Rev.9 and 12 about the "another beast" as the "dragon". In Rev.12:9 AND Rev.20:2 we are told the DRAGON IS ANOTHER TITLE FOR SATAN, and not some pope. The "dragon" is Satan as written in God's Word. If we believe Christ on that per Rev.12:9 and 20:2, then all Christians should agree on that.

That's the same "great city" mentioned there in Rev.11:8 that is continually mentioned throughout Revelation 17 and 18! Revelation 11:8 just happens to be the first mention of that "great city" phrase in Revelation. The last time that "great city" phrase is mentioned is in Rev.21:10, but with a major difference...

Rev 21:10

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

(KJV)

What does that show about the Jerusalem we Christians are to desire? Are we to desire the one one earth today as the New Jerusalem? Absolutely not! Christ rebuked this earth's Jerusalem in the parable of the husbandmen (Matt.21) when speaking to the unbeliving Jews that would have Him crucified. Christ said His 'vineyard' would be given to another nation, and that the house in Jerusalem was left desolate (Matt.23). And indeed today's Jerusalem is in a desolation today. But it's going to get worse off before Christ's second coming there. God's people who were rebellious then didn't want to hear then, and those rebellious of His people still don't want to hear it today. So WHICH Jerusalem does one trust in today? I'll trust in the Heavenly Jerusalem that is going to come down to this earth out of Heaven from God in place of this world age Jerusalem.

Rev 13:11-15

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

(KJV)

That means Satan himself will ascend out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, where our Lord Jesus was crucified, which points directly to Jerusalem! It's also Satan himself as that "another beast" who will have two horns like a lamb, but speak as a dragon that will cause the setting up of an image in false idol worship, and a mark for all to buy and sell! And the reason that dragon will be able to do those great wonders and miracles IN THE SIGHT OF MEN per Rev.13, is because it will be Satan himself doing it, when he is cast down on earth per Rev.12:7-9.

Rev 17:6

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

(KJV)

Which city was it that God said was responsible for the blood of His prophets? JERUSALEM!...

Ps 79:1-3

1 O God, the heathen are come into thine inheritance; thy holy temple have they defiled; they have laid Jerusalem on heaps.

2 The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.

3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them.

(KJV)

Matt 23:37-38

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

(KJV)

Per God's Word, Jerusalem is where He pointed to with the slaying of His prophets and saints, not Rome.

The MAIN DIFFERENCE is, Jerusalem was in a FALLEN STATE when God's prophets were slain, even when our Lord Jesus was slain. That link with Rev.17:6 is a BIBLICAL correlation by the way, from GOD Himself in His Word about Jerusalem. That's two major correlations in Revelation pointing to Jerusalem as that "great city". Personally, I think the Rev.11:8 correlation of that "great city" as Jerusalem is plenty Biblical proof.

[Rick-Parker]

The tribulation period is for judgment of non believers and those who are persecuting Gods elect, the believers, which those who believe in a Pre-trib rapture believe that these believers mentioned here are

saved during the tribulation and are killed for their belief.

..but if there is a pre-trib rapture, who's going to be left to persecute?

There will be many "Christians" left behind who didn't have a relationship with Christ. After the Rapture, they will be the people who will preach Christ to the lost, converting some and fulfilling the prophecy.

[John3;16]

This is to address Godfearers post, you indicated that the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that the church will go through the Great Tribulation period, I would like to know how this was revealed to you, Was it through scripture? or do you believe it was through dreams and/or visions? If you say it was through dreams or visions and it is not in harmony with scripture then you need to discern that. There have been many who believe that they have had visions from angles such as Joesph Smith, Muhammad

along with numerous others, which the bible warns against. This is the warning found in scripture: Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: