JOEL's ARMY & GIDEON's ARMY - A VISION

[Guest]

NOTE: This is an old one but a good one! -From the 1990's.

JOEL's ARMY & GIDEON's ARMY - A VISION

-by Robert I. Holmes.

There is a commonly held belief in the church that the army of Joel

and the army of Gideon both represent the same end time, militant and

victorious church. My intention here is not so much to examine the

theological foundations of such arguments, but to share a revelation

I had recently which seems to contradict this understanding. I am

fully convinced that the Lord is preparing his Bride for these last

days. As part of this preparation I believe He is preparing an end

time army. Not an army who will take over the world and set up the

political system Christ will rule in (called Dominion Theology) but

rather, a militant and victorious church who shall defeat the hordes

of Hell.

The VISION.

In late October 1996 I had a startling vision. I was looking down

from a high place and I saw a mighty army. It was marching in a long

line, like a great column snaking through the jungle. It looked for

all the world like a serpent. At it's head was a banner, which read

"Joel's' army". Behind them they left a swath of destruction, a road

of sorts cut through the jungle. I was made aware that this army was

'now marching' or had already mobilised.

I also saw off to one side, hidden in dense undergrowth, a battalion.

This group stood quietly, waiting in the jungle. They were assembled

in a square, and they were awaiting instructions. At the head of this

smaller group was a banner which read "Gideon's army".

Then I looked and saw a single platoon, off to the side of the bat-

talion. It stood divided. I looked carefully at this group, feeling

at first that it represented the local body of believers I belonged

to at the time. They were standing in mud, in two ranks facing each

other. The Spirit expressly said, "Many have passed through their

ranks" and I began to realise they were (are) the prophets. These

troops were stuck in the mud, and had not moved on for some time.

JOEL's ARMY.

Joel's army has been promoted widely as being a good army, an army

of the church. Many songs, sung in Pentecostal and mainline Evangel-

ical churches even quote the warrior Scriptures as relating to the

church. However I do not hold to that understanding. To me, Joel's

army is one of terrible locusts, "a great and powerful army... before

them is like Eden, after them is desolate" (Joel 2:2,3). This is

similar to the picture I had. Joel says they are "a powerful army,

drawn up for battle, before them the nations are in anguish" (5,6).

Why are the nations terrified of this army? Because they are an

instrument of judgement.

Note that the Scripture does not say, "God's enemies are in anguish

before them." Nor does it imply that the devil is afraid of them. It

is the nations who are afraid. This army is made up of "the cutting

locust... the swarming locust... the hopping locust... the destroying

locust" (Joel 1:4). This is not a picture of the Bride of Christ.

Evidently the army first destroys or brings judgement against God's

own people because later in the book of Joel, God consoles His people

saying, "I will repay YOU for the years the swarming locust has

eaten, the hopper, the destroyer and the cutter, that great army I

sent against you" (Joel 2:25).

This is clearly God's instrument of judgement against both his church

and the nations (peoples), not a great or good army in the church!

The passages relating to Joel's army confuse some, because it is said

that the Lord is at the head of HIS army. He is in control of them.

But that no more makes them the church than it made Babylon or

Assyria the church! Jeremiah depicts Babylon as God's own instrument,

his servant (Jer 25:9), just as Isaiah depicts Assyria as being a

weapon in God's hand (Isa 7:20). God used them, as He uses the army

depicted by Joel, to berate and scold an unrepentant Israel. In the

same way, Joel's army is marching in the end times, to scold and

rebuke, to consume and devour the unregenerate church.

I was impressed that this army was "now marching". There is only one

globally significant move underfoot at this time. It has already

affected many churches, denominations and groups. I have previously

labelled it the "Blessing Movement"- It's 'streams' are severally

identifiable as Howard Browne Ministries, the Toronto Blessing,

Sunderland Outpouring and Pensacola Revival. This is, to me, one and

the same movement in various forms.

GIDEON's ARMY

The second army I saw however, portrays an altogether different

picture. Here is an army fully prepared, awaiting instruction. It is

not yet mobile. The battalion (in military terms about 10,000 men)

was labelled Gideon's army. It represents the refined, the chosen,

the remnant church. This second army is not yet marching. They are

stable, focused, balanced and awaiting instruction. They have NOT

been given their marching orders! Gideon and his men were exhorted:

"Go in this might of yours and deliver Israel... I will be with you

and you shall strike down the Midianites" (Judg 6:14,15). Note there

is an explicit command to strike down the enemies of Israel, or for

the church, the devil and his powers- not the church!

As I read through the account of Gideon in Judges 6-8 several things

strike me about them. If this army is a picture of the remnant, then

it will help to see what they had, and what they did. Firstly, they

were twice refined. At first a great number of men gathered to fight

(32,000 in all). During the first purging the Lord removed those who

had the fear of man. This took their number down to 10,000. In my

vision I saw the battalion (10,000 men) labelled as Gideon's army.

This seems to indicate that the assembling battalion has already

been refined of the fear of man. The second purging Gideon's army

underwent was to remove those who trusted in their own strength.

This took their number down to 300. The present Gideon's army (the

one of my vision) may expect this second purging next.

I should say at this point that it is my understanding that the 'end

time' army of God, the militant church making war on the enemies of

the kingdom and taking ground for Christ will be made of many comp-

anies. Just one of these companies is Gideon's. Others have seen and

labelled such companies as the Isaiah 57 company, the Elijah force

and the warriors of Gilead. Perhaps these are all part of the same

picture?

The next thing we notice about Gideon's army (and from now on these

things are to come to the Gideon army gathered today) is that they

were fewer in number than would be expected. Their number was so few

in fact, that the move of God could not be blamed on them! The glory

could only go to God and Israel would not be able to boast about the

strength of her right arm. This fits well with my vision, as the

assembled crowd represented only one battalion, not a whole army.

The mighty triumphs and victories destined for this group can only

be laid at the feet of Jesus.

In their first battle, Gideon moved only according to God's command.

It was at God's initiative, at His request and by His plan only. It

was interesting that as an army, they carried no swords! How could

they possibly win the battle without weapons? Their battle cry was

"a sword for the Lord and Gideon" (7:20) and the enemy "feared the

sword of Gideon"(7:13). Yet in actual fact their hands were full.

They went into battle with a shofar in one hand (trumpet) and fire

in jars in the other.

The shofar symbolises the prophetic clarion or the watchmen, used to

sound the alarm and awaken the city. The fire in jars may well speak

of this very great treasure we have within us, this precious truth

about Christ which shall demonstrate his very great power: "we have

this treasure in clay jars, so that it may be made clear that this

extraordinary power belongs to God and does not come from us." (2 Cor

4:7). Likewise the secret to our warfare is also that the weapons of

our battle are not merely carnal, they are divine to the tearing

down of strongholds (2 Cor 10:4).

THE SONS of EPHRAIM

After winning an amazing victory in their first battle, Gideon's

army pressed the defeated enemy far into the Northern region. They

passed through into the land of Ephraim, toward Penuel. The inhab-

itants of this region - the sons of Ephraim, were accomplished

soldiers. Over the years they had managed successive enlargements

of their territory, and were powerful enough by Isaiah's time for

him to even call them the Northern Kingdom! (Isa 7:28,29). They had

defeated the princes of Midian, Oreb and Zeeb (Jud 8:3) and were

furious that Gideon had left them out of the battle!

Gideon must have considered taking such fine fighting men along to

rout the enemy, yet we read that he proceeded on without them (v 4).

Whilst Gideon acknowledges their superior strength in battle (Judg

8:2), he in fact uses this as a way of diplomatically declining

their implied offer of help. He proceeds without the prestigious

fighters. It would have been tempting to take them along in his

battle.

Who are these sons of Ephraim, and what might they represent to the

present vision of the army of Gideon? Ephraim was the second son of

Joseph. Joseph blessed him with his right hand, and placed him over

his brother Manassah (Gen 48:13) signifying that he would be great-

er. From the beginning of the tribe, Ephraim gained a place of

honour and prestige. Several notable leaders came from the tribe or

region - Joshua, Samuel, Jeroboam, Tola and Deborah.

They had a special place in God's heart, until their rebellion

against the house of David. He states, "I am the father to Israel

and Ephraim is my first born" (Jer 31:6). Similarly "Gilead is mine,

and Manassah is mine, but Ephraim is my helmet and Judah my sceptre"

(Psa 60:7). They had several of the ancient and blessed places of

worship, including Bethel, Shiloh and Shechem within their borders.

There were, and are many good reasons to bring along people who seem

to have a fruitful ministry (the name Ephraim means "fruitful place"

in Hebrew). They may have prestige, they may have power, they may be

experienced in battle and spiritual warfare, they may have ruled in

the previous moves of God, yet we like Gideon should deny their

aide. Gideon did not choose their help at all. They do indeed have a

special place in God's heart and plan, but not in His present plan

for the army of Gideon. They are to rout the enemy with the help of

Jehovah alone!

The PROPHETIC 'STUCK-IN-THE-MUDS'.

Finally, the group I saw off to the side of Gideon's army represents,

I believe, the prophets. One important point of my vision was that

they were divided. They stood separated from each other, and in at

least two rows facing each other. The Lord said, "Many have passed

through their ranks". I am reminded of the Scripture which speaks of

the coming unity among the prophets: "your watchmen shall lift up

their voices, with their voices they shall sing together; for they

shall see eye to eye when the Lord brings back Zion" (Isa 52:8 NKJV).

It is my experience that, by and large, prophetic persons are loners.

Or at least they have a tendency to stay inward. They retract from

too much publicity. Camaraderie among prophetic groups is a rare

treasure indeed. In Australia especially, prophetic ministries tend

to be individualist, elitist and aloof. But we can trust in the

Scripture that as the Lord restores Zion, the watchmen shall gather

together in harmony and unity. This is something to be overcome in

Him.

Mud represents, at it's most basic level, wet earth. Earth or dust

is the fabric which man is made from. Mud may therefore represent

worldliness, or earthliness which taints prophetic ministry. Mud in

Scripture is also associated with wickedness (Isa 57:20) and unclean-

liness (2 Pet 2:22). Being stuck in the mud up to the boot straps

indicates the many ways in which the prophetic ministry has become

tainted. Many groups have become attached to worldliness, and the

keeping of position and power. Others of us have become proud, and

others just plain sinful. Of all this we must repent, and be cleansed.

The prophetic band I saw were stuck in the mud, being not only

tainted, but obviously trapped. Jeremiah used this analogy in warn-

ing the people of Israel that they faced captivity to Babylon since

they had failed to head his warning. He warned, "this is what the

LORD has shown me - a vision of all the women remaining in the house

of the king of Judah being led out to the officials of the king of

Babylon and saying, 'Your trusted friends have seduced you and have

overcome you; Now that your feet are stuck in the mud, they desert

you.' All your wives and your children shall be led out to the

Chaldeans, and you yourself shall not escape from their hand, but

shall be seized by the king of Babylon; and this city shall be burn-

ed with fire." (Jer 38:21-23).

Being stuck in the mud means to become trapped, and left open to

being pillaged by the enemy, Jeremiah is basically saying to the

captives of Jerusalem, "because of your sin, rebellion and failure

to listen to God, you are trapped and shall be not only deserted,

but carried away by the enemy. What a tragedy for the prophetic

ministries! My vision, lastly, is a warning that we must clean up,

and move on. We must not pretend we are clean when in fact we are

dirty. The call of the hour for those who call themselves prophetic

is 'holiness unto the Lord'. Holy so that we may prepare and join

the gathering, training, waiting army of Gideon in battle.

~Copyright

[Avodah]

Processing.

Thank you for posting Joe!

[yaqub]

That Muslims believe that at the end times, a horde of army will emerge from the northernest parts of the world, known as Gog and Magog (Juj wa Majuj), no relation to the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel. This army is currently held behind a wall, and sometime in the future, this army will break through and come and attack the Muslims, the greatest fitna (persecution, trial). Muslims are told to endure this and their salvation will come.

Even all the way the End, Muslims are being deceived. Prior to that they will have al-Mahdi ( http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/al-mahdi.html ), Isa who is the Muslim version of Jesus (http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/isa.html ) who together will have set up the global caliphate. They will also kill ad-Dajjal who is the Muslim version of AC ( http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/dajjal.html ), which are all opposites of what the Bible prophesied about.

Edited July 24, 2008 by yaqub

[stormy612]

NOTE: This is an old one but a good one! -From the 1990's.

JOEL's ARMY & GIDEON's ARMY - A VISION

-by Robert I. Holmes.

There is a commonly held belief in the church that the army of Joel

and the army of Gideon both represent the same end time, militant and

victorious church. My intention here is not so much to examine the

theological foundations of such arguments, but to share a revelation

I had recently which seems to contradict this understanding. I am

fully convinced that the Lord is preparing his Bride for these last

days. As part of this preparation I believe He is preparing an end

time army. Not an army who will take over the world and set up the

political system Christ will rule in (called Dominion Theology) but

rather, a militant and victorious church who shall defeat the hordes

of Hell.

The VISION.

In late October 1996 I had a startling vision. I was looking down

from a high place and I saw a mighty army. It was marching in a long

line, like a great column snaking through the jungle. It looked for

all the world like a serpent. At it's head was a banner, which read

"Joel's' army". Behind them they left a swath of destruction, a road

of sorts cut through the jungle. I was made aware that this army was

'now marching' or had already mobilised.

I also saw off to one side, hidden in dense undergrowth, a battalion.

This group stood quietly, waiting in the jungle. They were assembled

in a square, and they were awaiting instructions. At the head of this

smaller group was a banner which read "Gideon's army".

Then I looked and saw a single platoon, off to the side of the bat-

talion. It stood divided. I looked carefully at this group, feeling

at first that it represented the local body of believers I belonged

to at the time. They were standing in mud, in two ranks facing each

other. The Spirit expressly said, "Many have passed through their

ranks" and I began to realise they were (are) the prophets. These

troops were stuck in the mud, and had not moved on for some time.

JOEL's ARMY.

Joel's army has been promoted widely as being a good army, an army

of the church. Many songs, sung in Pentecostal and mainline Evangel-

ical churches even quote the warrior Scriptures as relating to the

church. However I do not hold to that understanding. To me, Joel's

army is one of terrible locusts, "a great and powerful army... before

them is like Eden, after them is desolate" (Joel 2:2,3). This is

similar to the picture I had. Joel says they are "a powerful army,

drawn up for battle, before them the nations are in anguish" (5,6).

Why are the nations terrified of this army? Because they are an

instrument of judgement.

Note that the Scripture does not say, "God's enemies are in anguish

before them." Nor does it imply that the devil is afraid of them. It

is the nations who are afraid. This army is made up of "the cutting

locust... the swarming locust... the hopping locust... the destroying

locust" (Joel 1:4). This is not a picture of the Bride of Christ.

Evidently the army first destroys or brings judgement against God's

own people because later in the book of Joel, God consoles His people

saying, "I will repay YOU for the years the swarming locust has

eaten, the hopper, the destroyer and the cutter, that great army I

sent against you" (Joel 2:25).

This is clearly God's instrument of judgement against both his church

and the nations (peoples), not a great or good army in the church!

The passages relating to Joel's army confuse some, because it is said

that the Lord is at the head of HIS army. He is in control of them.

But that no more makes them the church than it made Babylon or

Assyria the church! Jeremiah depicts Babylon as God's own instrument,

his servant (Jer 25:9), just as Isaiah depicts Assyria as being a

weapon in God's hand (Isa 7:20). God used them, as He uses the army

depicted by Joel, to berate and scold an unrepentant Israel. In the

same way, Joel's army is marching in the end times, to scold and

rebuke, to consume and devour the unregenerate church.

I was impressed that this army was "now marching". There is only one

globally significant move underfoot at this time. It has already

affected many churches, denominations and groups. I have previously

labelled it the "Blessing Movement"- It's 'streams' are severally

identifiable as Howard Browne Ministries, the Toronto Blessing,

Sunderland Outpouring and Pensacola Revival. This is, to me, one and

the same movement in various forms.

GIDEON's ARMY

The second army I saw however, portrays an altogether different

picture. Here is an army fully prepared, awaiting instruction. It is

not yet mobile. The battalion (in military terms about 10,000 men)

was labelled Gideon's army. It represents the refined, the chosen,

the remnant church. This second army is not yet marching. They are

stable, focused, balanced and awaiting instruction. They have NOT

been given their marching orders! Gideon and his men were exhorted:

"Go in this might of yours and deliver Israel... I will be with you

and you shall strike down the Midianites" (Judg 6:14,15). Note there

is an explicit command to strike down the enemies of Israel, or for

the church, the devil and his powers- not the church!

As I read through the account of Gideon in Judges 6-8 several things

strike me about them. If this army is a picture of the remnant, then

it will help to see what they had, and what they did. Firstly, they

were twice refined. At first a great number of men gathered to fight

(32,000 in all). During the first purging the Lord removed those who

had the fear of man. This took their number down to 10,000. In my

vision I saw the battalion (10,000 men) labelled as Gideon's army.

This seems to indicate that the assembling battalion has already

been refined of the fear of man. The second purging Gideon's army

underwent was to remove those who trusted in their own strength.

This took their number down to 300. The present Gideon's army (the

one of my vision) may expect this second purging next.

I should say at this point that it is my understanding that the 'end

time' army of God, the militant church making war on the enemies of

the kingdom and taking ground for Christ will be made of many comp-

anies. Just one of these companies is Gideon's. Others have seen and

labelled such companies as the Isaiah 57 company, the Elijah force

and the warriors of Gilead. Perhaps these are all part of the same

picture?

The next thing we notice about Gideon's army (and from now on these

things are to come to the Gideon army gathered today) is that they

were fewer in number than would be expected. Their number was so few

in fact, that the move of God could not be blamed on them! The glory

could only go to God and Israel would not be able to boast about the

strength of her right arm. This fits well with my vision, as the

assembled crowd represented only one battalion, not a whole army.

The mighty triumphs and victories destined for this group can only

be laid at the feet of Jesus.

In their first battle, Gideon moved only according to God's command.

It was at God's initiative, at His request and by His plan only. It

was interesting that as an army, they carried no swords! How could

they possibly win the battle without weapons? Their battle cry was

"a sword for the Lord and Gideon" (7:20) and the enemy "feared the

sword of Gideon"(7:13). Yet in actual fact their hands were full.

They went into battle with a shofar in one hand (trumpet) and fire

in jars in the other.

The shofar symbolises the prophetic clarion or the watchmen, used to

sound the alarm and awaken the city. The fire in jars may well speak

of this very great treasure we have within us, this precious truth

about Christ which shall demonstrate his very great power: "we have

this treasure in clay jars, so that it may be made clear that this

extraordinary power belongs to God and does not come from us." (2 Cor

4:7). Likewise the secret to our warfare is also that the weapons of

our battle are not merely carnal, they are divine to the tearing

down of strongholds (2 Cor 10:4).

THE SONS of EPHRAIM

After winning an amazing victory in their first battle, Gideon's

army pressed the defeated enemy far into the Northern region. They

passed through into the land of Ephraim, toward Penuel. The inhab-

itants of this region - the sons of Ephraim, were accomplished

soldiers. Over the years they had managed successive enlargements

of their territory, and were powerful enough by Isaiah's time for

him to even call them the Northern Kingdom! (Isa 7:28,29). They had

defeated the princes of Midian, Oreb and Zeeb (Jud 8:3) and were

furious that Gideon had left them out of the battle!

Gideon must have considered taking such fine fighting men along to

rout the enemy, yet we read that he proceeded on without them (v 4).

Whilst Gideon acknowledges their superior strength in battle (Judg

8:2), he in fact uses this as a way of diplomatically declining

their implied offer of help. He proceeds without the prestigious

fighters. It would have been tempting to take them along in his

battle.

Who are these sons of Ephraim, and what might they represent to the

present vision of the army of Gideon? Ephraim was the second son of

Joseph. Joseph blessed him with his right hand, and placed him over

his brother Manassah (Gen 48:13) signifying that he would be great-

er. From the beginning of the tribe, Ephraim gained a place of

honour and prestige. Several notable leaders came from the tribe or

region - Joshua, Samuel, Jeroboam, Tola and Deborah.

They had a special place in God's heart, until their rebellion

against the house of David. He states, "I am the father to Israel

and Ephraim is my first born" (Jer 31:6). Similarly "Gilead is mine,

and Manassah is mine, but Ephraim is my helmet and Judah my sceptre"

(Psa 60:7). They had several of the ancient and blessed places of

worship, including Bethel, Shiloh and Shechem within their borders.

There were, and are many good reasons to bring along people who seem

to have a fruitful ministry (the name Ephraim means "fruitful place"

in Hebrew). They may have prestige, they may have power, they may be

experienced in battle and spiritual warfare, they may have ruled in

the previous moves of God, yet we like Gideon should deny their

aide. Gideon did not choose their help at all. They do indeed have a

special place in God's heart and plan, but not in His present plan

for the army of Gideon. They are to rout the enemy with the help of

Jehovah alone!

The PROPHETIC 'STUCK-IN-THE-MUDS'.

Finally, the group I saw off to the side of Gideon's army represents,

I believe, the prophets. One important point of my vision was that

they were divided. They stood separated from each other, and in at

least two rows facing each other. The Lord said, "Many have passed

through their ranks". I am reminded of the Scripture which speaks of

the coming unity among the prophets: "your watchmen shall lift up

their voices, with their voices they shall sing together; for they

shall see eye to eye when the Lord brings back Zion" (Isa 52:8 NKJV).

It is my experience that, by and large, prophetic persons are loners.

Or at least they have a tendency to stay inward. They retract from

too much publicity. Camaraderie among prophetic groups is a rare

treasure indeed. In Australia especially, prophetic ministries tend

to be individualist, elitist and aloof. But we can trust in the

Scripture that as the Lord restores Zion, the watchmen shall gather

together in harmony and unity. This is something to be overcome in

Him.

Mud represents, at it's most basic level, wet earth. Earth or dust

is the fabric which man is made from. Mud may therefore represent

worldliness, or earthliness which taints prophetic ministry. Mud in

Scripture is also associated with wickedness (Isa 57:20) and unclean-

liness (2 Pet 2:22). Being stuck in the mud up to the boot straps

indicates the many ways in which the prophetic ministry has become

tainted. Many groups have become attached to worldliness, and the

keeping of position and power. Others of us have become proud, and

others just plain sinful. Of all this we must repent, and be cleansed.

The prophetic band I saw were stuck in the mud, being not only

tainted, but obviously trapped. Jeremiah used this analogy in warn-

ing the people of Israel that they faced captivity to Babylon since

they had failed to head his warning. He warned, "this is what the

LORD has shown me - a vision of all the women remaining in the house

of the king of Judah being led out to the officials of the king of

Babylon and saying, 'Your trusted friends have seduced you and have

overcome you; Now that your feet are stuck in the mud, they desert

you.' All your wives and your children shall be led out to the

Chaldeans, and you yourself shall not escape from their hand, but

shall be seized by the king of Babylon; and this city shall be burn-

ed with fire." (Jer 38:21-23).

Being stuck in the mud means to become trapped, and left open to

being pillaged by the enemy, Jeremiah is basically saying to the

captives of Jerusalem, "because of your sin, rebellion and failure

to listen to God, you are trapped and shall be not only deserted,

but carried away by the enemy. What a tragedy for the prophetic

ministries! My vision, lastly, is a warning that we must clean up,

and move on. We must not pretend we are clean when in fact we are

dirty. The call of the hour for those who call themselves prophetic

is 'holiness unto the Lord'. Holy so that we may prepare and join

the gathering, training, waiting army of Gideon in battle.

~Copyright