Can't be racist, so we'll fingerprint EVERYONE

[LadyRaven]

The national ID act here in the states was passed into law or its equal sometime in 2005. I just had to renew my license a few months back and got into a 'converstaion' with the worker and listened to all the bull he seemed programed to tell everyone. According to the DMV employee this new ID card will keep us safe from any and all terrorists and it will be able to track every illegal in this country. Now hey why if thats the case then the illlegal immigration problem should have been solved long before now! By 2010 everyone will have the new ID card or you will be considered a non-citizen and that is according to the DMV guy and he even hinted that all national ID card from all over the world will be linked to prevent terrorism. That is something I have felt would happen the minute all this nonsense started. Perhaps eventually our bank accounts will be linked to them also and that is the only way I can see these things becoming the MOB. And here in the US I think we can all thank the patriotic act for all this at least imo.

Well, SC is not complying. Not sure what that will mean in 2010, but...our ID cards are good for 10 years. I can see a run on the dmv in Dec of 2009 here... We're not real fond of this scheme down in these here parts...

[buckthesystem]

The national ID act here in the states was passed into law or its equal sometime in 2005. I just had to renew my license a few months back and got into a 'converstaion' with the worker and listened to all the bull he seemed programed to tell everyone. According to the DMV employee this new ID card will keep us safe from any and all terrorists and it will be able to track every illegal in this country. Now hey why if thats the case then the illlegal immigration problem should have been solved long before now! By 2010 everyone will have the new ID card or you will be considered a non-citizen and that is according to the DMV guy and he even hinted that all national ID card from all over the world will be linked to prevent terrorism. That is something I have felt would happen the minute all this nonsense started. Perhaps eventually our bank accounts will be linked to them also and that is the only way I can see these things becoming the MOB. And here in the US I think we can all thank the patriotic act for all this at least imo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7656980

Italy fingerprint plan gets initial OKAP foreign, Wednesday July 16 2008 By FRANCES D'EMILIO

Associated Press Writer

ROME (AP) - An Italian parliamentary panel gave initial approval Wednesday to a plan fingerprint everyone in the country, a move that could defuse criticism over a mandatory program to fingerprint Gypsies.

This is the same reason they are using in the US to put REAL ID into effect, cant appear to be racist, but we need to know who is illegal, so we'll do a REAL ID on every citisen.

Believe me Real ID has absolutely nothing at all to do with illegal immigration! How could it? How do you think this dreadful system would stop illegals getting into America, and staying? The first excuse they used was "terrorism", and when that was utterly rubbished (as it should be because there was never any answers on how real id would "stop terrorism"), the "reason" was changed.

Doesn't really make anyone feel confident, when they are told "it is for (x) reason, then oh no, maybe (xz) reason would justify it then.

The national ID act here in the states was passed into law or its equal sometime in 2005. I just had to renew my license a few months back and got into a 'converstaion' with the worker and listened to all the bull he seemed programed to tell everyone. According to the DMV employee this new ID card will keep us safe from any and all terrorists and it will be able to track every illegal in this country. Now hey why if thats the case then the illlegal immigration problem should have been solved long before now! By 2010 everyone will have the new ID card or you will be considered a non-citizen and that is according to the DMV guy and he even hinted that all national ID card from all over the world will be linked to prevent terrorism. That is something I have felt would happen the minute all this nonsense started. Perhaps eventually our bank accounts will be linked to them also and that is the only way I can see these things becoming the MOB. And here in the US I think we can all thank the patriotic act for all this at least imo.

Well, SC is not complying. Not sure what that will mean in 2010, but...our ID cards are good for 10 years. I can see a run on the dmv in Dec of 2009 here... We're not real fond of this scheme down in these here parts...

The Act may have been (SNEAKILY AND DISHONESTLY) passed into law, but it is far from sure to be implemented because so far (quote from a news item that I can't be bothered posting) "But many states have dragged their feet, simply promising action in the future. Delaware, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma and South Carolina have refused to cooperate outright". So hopefully people will wake up on time.

[buckthesystem]

This looks suspiciously like something I was reading on Yahoo News about our Gov. planning on recording every single email, text, phone call and internet search made by everyone:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080716/tuk-...ar-dba1618.html

And this other article about Gordon Brown signing us further into the grasp of Europe is not pleasant, either:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/52947

Also, see this:

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/WN-UK...ies-t90224.html

[David of Derby]

Buck, can you explain just what you have against a national ID database and/or ID card? I can't speak for your country, but here in the UK all this information is held by the government anyway and most of it is sold to third parties for the purpose of spamming us with junk mail and cold calls. I don't see anything that would change with the introduction of an ID card except that we'd stop needing to prat about with passports and driving licenses to prove who we are.

We need nationally-recognised ID to open a bank account, apply for state benefits, get a job, apply for a firearms certificate, et cetera, et cetera. so what's the problem with an ID card that wraps all that information up into one place?

[buckthesystem]

Buck, can you explain just what you have against a national ID database and/or ID card? I can't speak for your country, but here in the UK all this information is held by the government anyway and most of it is sold to third parties for the purpose of spamming us with junk mail and cold calls. I don't see anything that would change with the introduction of an ID card except that we'd stop needing to prat about with passports and driving licenses to prove who we are.

We need nationally-recognised ID to open a bank account, apply for state benefits, get a job, apply for a firearms certificate, et cetera, et cetera. so what's the problem with an ID card that wraps all that information up into one place?

David you DID ask. However, I doubt whether WB would appreciate my taking up all their bandwidth in replying, and writing something that would not only take me hours to write but would take you hours to read. But this is very important, and it is essential that you know at least some of the facts before advocating this horrible system.

I've been following the progress of the UK id/NIR scheme ever since it was first mooted, in about 2002. I have a friend who lives in central London, works there and has lived there for more than 20 years, is married to an English woman, and they intended to stay there for ever. UK society has changed over the past six or seven years so drastically that if it wasn't for her family in London they would have left years ago, but as it is they are planning a move to Canada where she has two brothers. I get the most scary emails from my friend about the UK id/NIR scheme, and he isn't the sort of person who exaggerates.

Basically the ID card itself isn't the major problem, this is not about a harmless piece of plastic, as it has been sold to the public. The asolutely insidious thing about this scheme is the NATIONAL IDENTITY REGISTER that is buttressed to the card. You will be FORCED to attend an interrogation where no less than 51 separate pieces of information will be extracted from you and put on the register.

You claim that the UK government already has all this information about you and it would be good to have it collected in one place. Well, here's an analogy that should make you consider whether or not that is such a good idea:

Right now you have a key to your front door, a key to your car, (maybe) a key to your place of work, a pin number that gives you access to your bank account, a library card, (maybe) a key to a gun cabinet, a key to a liquor cabinet, etc. etc. Well why don't we just take away all those keys and control all the locks, the bank account and the library with one card with a number printed on it? So convenient for you unless you lose the card, I pick it up and then I have access to your house, you car and everything you have.

Next I must point out that (contrary to the government's chanting over and over again) people seem to believe the id/nir scheme will "give you access to all sorts of government services" IT WILL NOT DO THIS AT ALL, in fact it might take away rights that you thus far have enjoyed, because this gives the government the power to say "oh, look, your card has been rejected, so you are not (despite what you insist) entitled to any healthcare! In fact the government is removing all your rights, and your entire identity, and then renting them back to you - AT AN ENORMOUS COST! And of course, under the ID card Act government can cancel an id card any time they like, thus depriving you of your very life.

The thing is, after the introduction of this scheme, you are totally at the mercy of the government, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING THAT YOU CANNOT DO ALREADY!!!!!! I recently read a brilliant analogy of this (but I can't give credit because I can't remember where I saw it): It is sort of like the government holding your head underwater and then trying to sell you a snorkel.

Another thing is that it is planned to have "secure" internet access to the national identity register. Believe me it will be so very quickly "hacked into" (as everything that this government has claimed to be "secure" with regard to computers is soon copied, forged or hacked into). So when this happens all the details of your entire life will be available to just about anyone who wants them, 24/7, and most importantly the details on your card. So if I was so determined I could go on a shopping spree with your bank account, and if any shops asked me awkward questions - such as your mother's maiden name - I would just go back to your record on the NIR to find the answer. Criminals could have a field day. If I broke into your house, you would simply get a new lock and key to stop me burglaring it again, or if I stole your car you could get another car, but if I stole your ID card and thereby gained access to your NIR record, your couldn't simply get another life. Government has already said that they plan to give thousands of people access to the NIR, and realising how many people in UK work or councils or the civil service it could more accurately be millions of people, (now do you really want some silly clerical worker in the "department of wasting taxpayers' money" to be able to browse through all your personal details? Government has already said that they plan to "help pay for the scheme by selling access to people's personal data, so you won't ever know who knows what about you. Here's something more to think about: Say I am stalker, I have been stalking you and all of a sudden you seem to disappear, so I merely go to (probably) the UKIPS and pay a fee for the data it holds on you, and voila the new address that you escaped to. And I'm back in business stalking you.

REALLY THIS IS THE BEST EVER WEAPON THAT ANY CRIMINAL OR CRIMINAL ORGANISATION COULD EVER HAVE BEEN HANDED, IT IS LIKE IT WAS CREATED JUST FOR THEM!

There is also the "audit trail", meaning that there will be a record kept of any transaction and all the details with regard to you which will be KEPT FOREVER, long after you are dead.

Then according to the Act, "the id card (and the record on the NIR) remains the property of the government. So the government giveth (or in this case "rents") and the government also taketh away. So I take this to mean that if the government considers that you've "been a bad boy", it might take back your card, leaving you as a NON-PERSON! Don't ever think it won't happen, have you read G Orwell's "1984"? Well I think the Blair government thought it was written as a "how to" manual for governments to shape society.

We have been told that the UK system will rely on biometrics for its success. Well you must consider that the failure rate for biometric checking is VERY HIGH! Therefore, if a fingerprint reader, or an iris scan reader, or face recognition tecnology for any reason whatsoever fails to recognise your biometric measurements, your transaction will not go through. Considering UK's population there must be more than a million people who will not be able to have their biometrics recognised for one reason or another. Also I personally find the use of biometrics CREEPY! I was brought up to believe that fingerprints are something taken by the police when you are arrested and processed, not something that you give every clerk and government employee.

But wait, there is no "giving" about any of this. They are talking about COMPULSION!!! Or at least "we will find way of creating that need", and the government has stated in the Act, that it has the right to designate any individual or group of people "those who have to have an id card". So there is nothing to stop them deciding that all males between the ages of 18 and 65 with brown hair have to be on the register and have an id card. And then of course, the legislation allows for it to become a compulsory scheme after the expiry of a period of time.

So if you really want to go through all this and be part of this horrible scheme, then that should be your right, but surely it should not be forced on the old lady down the street who can barely afford to put food on her table let alone pay out "megabucks" for something she neither wants nor needs.

I could go on all night, but I have to give my grandson his last bottle for the night and I think his nappy might badly need changing. So I'll leave you with this thought: Do you really trust government to handle something such as this, costing BILLIONS of pounds, competently?

[mizzdy]

Well, SC is not complying. Not sure what that will mean in 2010, but...our ID cards are good for 10 years. I can see a run on the dmv in Dec of 2009 here... We're not real fond of this scheme down in these here parts...

Nevada had opted out and many are still trying to figure out when our nuts up in Reno put it into law. When I went to get my license I made the comment to the dmv guy how glad I was that NV had opted out and that is when I learned our state was going along with it. According to the dmv guy all states will eventually be made to make the change or face penalities, haven't looked into that though. When it becomes into manditory I will turn in my license. I can't drive anymore and never do any banking and frankly I haven't actually used mine for anything in years. Now if they actually attach it to my bank account and I can't use my ATM card I might be in trouble. One would think that a town born out of mob rule would not want something like this either but there seems to be a bunch of socialist liberals in charge these days.

Believe me Real ID has absolutely nothing at all to do with illegal immigration! How could it? How do you think this dreadful system would stop illegals getting into America, and staying? The first excuse they used was "terrorism", and when that was utterly rubbished (as it should be because there was never any answers on how real id would "stop terrorism"), the "reason" was changed.

As far as it being used for immigration that was the first I had heard of it. The man actually went on to say that this was the only thing that could be viewed as completely secure, that illegals counldn't use fake SS# or birth certificates in order to get this new ID card. I did get a bit hot under the collar in my response to him. Watching what is going on in the UK gives us a fairly good idea whats coming.

[Axxman]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Run for the hills.....

[buckthesystem]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Run for the hills.....

This brings to mind the old adage which goes something like " ......... living in a fool's paradise".

Or is it something about not being able to see the wood for the trees?

No, maybe it is something like "all it takes for evil to reign is for good men to do nothing".

Or maybe Axxman. you should read "the emperor's new clothes". It's a childrens' story but very apt in these circumstances.

Someone help me out here???

[Guest]

Don't Mess With Sis!

[buckthesystem]

Quote: Mizdy's post, I cannot seem to quote successfully.

Nevada had opted out and many are still trying to figure out when our nuts up in Reno put it into law. When I went to get my license I made the comment to the dmv guy how glad I was that NV had opted out and that is when I learned our state was going along with it. According to the dmv guy all states will eventually be made to make the change or face penalities, haven't looked into that though. When it becomes into manditory I will turn in my license. I can't drive anymore and never do any banking and frankly I haven't actually used mine for anything in years. Now if they actually attach it to my bank account and I can't use my ATM card I might be in trouble. One would think that a town born out of mob rule would not want something like this either but there seems to be a bunch of socialist liberals in charge these days.

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The federal government has tried to blackmail individual state governments into complying with real id by saying that without compliant driving licences their citizens will not be able to board aeroplanes or enter federal buildings, even go to national parks, but then if 90% of the states turn round and point blank refuse to have anything to do with this weird idea, the federal government will be forced to drop it.

When the federal government comes out with an idea like this, which will benefit no one, to succeed they rely entirely on the compliance of the people.

If the people just say "no", they will have to back down. But if they just accept it without thinking, this encourages the powers that be to say "well they just rolled over on this one, so what other ridiculous, expensive idea can we impose on them next?

As for what DMV employees say. They exist to repeat government propaganda and they will tell you all sorts of rubbish. Most people won't even challenge it.