buckthesystem Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I'm sorry but DUO's analogy about abortion is, I reckon anyway, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!! It seems that a lot of you are interpreting scripture to be how you want it to be, God will be the judge of that. He's the only one who can be the judge. We are all mere mortals, fallen mortals, and not one of us is good enough to judge another where life or death is concerned. We can never be 100% sure whose opinion about any of this is right, we'll just have to wait until God tells us. Meanwhile I'll stick to my view. God did tell us. I pointed that out to you, and you have not addressed it. BTW, it is not my view but God's that I will stick with. DUO's analogy is right? So, unborn babies are the same as unlawful murderers or do you believe unlawful murderers are the same as unborn babies? What does God say? +Execution is legally and morally justifiable for a first degree murder conviction. One person isn't chosing who lives and dies, it a jury of the defendents peers, which is also within our constitution. Funny, how people want to outlaw execution that is clearly spelled out in the Constitution, but have no problem misinterpreting the same Constitution to defend abortion. Oh, the bitter irony! If you want to turn the lawfulness of execution into a moral discussion, then abortion will be brought up. But, if you want to discuss the legality of it all, then that is a completely different conversation. The US Supreme Court legalized abortion, of which it greatly abused its power and violated the Constitution in that ruling. The Constitution legalized execution, yet here we are, having a discussion about how wrong it is. I believe abortion is wrong, but I don't need to come up with a lame excuse to justify my beliefs. I believe execution is justifiable by our laws, so I need no other excuse to legitimize my beliefs. You people are so intellectually dishonest and morally ambiguous, you only have your ideology to justify your beliefs and mine come from the Bible, a moral compass and spiritual guide. Until you are ready to admit that you have no foundation to base your beliefs on, then I really have nothing further to say regarding abortion and execution. No Xan unborn babies are not the same as unlawful murderers. However, it is appropriate to compare them because they are both killed, and death is death, no matter what you want to believe. The analogy exists legitimately because some of you have been persuaded that Rom. 13 says to obey government, cheerfully, and you have no problem with obeying government's law over the death penalty, but for some reason balk at the government's law over abortion. BTW this should, in no way, be interpreted to mean that I think abortion is a good thing. Now this is strange because a law is a law, so how can anyone justify pleasing God by obeying some the laws of man, but not all? I mean either Romans 13 says that everyone should be subject to (mans') governing authorities, or it doesn't! And Justin, your assertion that: "Our government isn't using Romans 13 to justify its laws. Our Constitution spells out just what responsibilities our government is supposed to be limited to" is almost laughable. You only have to see passages from Rom. 13 posted, or quoted, all the time, in answer to any criticism of the government to realise that it is being used as a "justification" for the government to do what it has been doing. I remember reading - ages ago - that Rom. 13 was used by oppressive regimes throughout history to "influence" their people. And it has recently (by that I mean over the last five or six years) resurfaced. coming from America of all places. As for the US constitution, well that is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. The PATRIOT Act has seen to that. What I find so scary about that is that so many people seem to have been brainwashed to support PATRIOT and "homeland security". Even the argument that "we must support government until they violate God's law" doesn't stand up to this mindset, because there is so much disagreement on what is God's law and what is not. I don't believe (although I do stand to be corrected) that abortion is not mentioned in the US constitution. I am curious, however, as to why you seem to be concerned that legalising abortion is a "violation of the constitution" and yet you don't seem to be concerned at all the other violations of the constitution that have occurred over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I have never ignored the Constitution for any reason (that I know of). The Patriot Act is a blatant disregard of our liberties and has me incensed. However, that's not the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted July 31, 2008 quote DUO: "If that were to come down on the supreme court and they ruled in favor, will you rant on about how gay marriage isn't in the Constitution and the activist judges over stepped their boundaries or will that be OK with you? So it's very hard for you to maintain credibility when you obviously pick and choose." Have you read the US Constitution DUO? Because I have, and I read it often. How the law is written and how it is interpreted are two different subjects. Nowhere, in the US Constitution, does it clearly spell out that a person can terminate a pregnancy. But, our Constitution does give the government the power to end the life of a person that is convicted of a capital crime. Fifth Amendment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted July 31, 2008 What Amendment can you cite that grants a person the right to terminate a pregnancy? Please, enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It's curious that it seems OK to some of you to ignore the constitution, via the patriot act, or whenever the government might deem it "necessary". The supreme court is part of our government, therefore, when our government made abortion legal, you must assume that it's Gods will right? Absolutely not. And yet you don't... some people are very inconsistent. Whatever is or isn't in the Constitution today might be changed tomorrow, like the effort for a marriage ban for homosexuals. If that were to come down on the supreme court and they ruled in favor, will you rant on about how gay marriage isn't in the Constitution and the activist judges over stepped their boundaries or will that be OK with you? So it's very hard for you to maintain credibility when you obviously pick and choose. What's in the Bible is more important than what's in the Constitution. It's also akin to the whole "hate crimes" debate. On one hand death is death regardless of the motive, when talking about hate crimes but on the other hand, 1st degree murder gets the death penalty while 2nd degree murder doesn't. First degree murder is usually pre-meditated. Big difference. THEN it's a matter of degrees which of course is based on motive, motive, just like in hate crime legislation. Sure must be hard to be conservative when you wake up every day unsure of which way to handle these social morality questions. So is abortion 1st degree murder? Who should be put to death the mother, the doctor, both parents and the doctor? I'd sure be interested to hear what your take on this is. Not that I expect to get it. The mother and the doctor have put an innocent baby to death. But it's the doctor who does the actual killing, so, following logic, he probably should be put to death. He could choose to say no. How about if you kill someone just because they are Mexican or Muslim or gay? That would be pre-meditated. Should that be considered in the same light as if someone shoots a guy in the back, as he's running away from his neighbors house? No. that would be self-defense. BTW, you are WAY off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted August 1, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted August 1, 2008 so by what i am picking up to reading the replys is this that this private should not be executed what about the two victems who lost their lives due to this private behaving badly ? hear are his crimes he was convicted of two murders an attempted murder and three rapes the victems included a civilian and two members of the army the court marshel convicted gray of raping and killing army private lura lee vickery she was shot 4 times with a 22 caliber pistol and i am hearing this should not be happening we live in a cival society what about her family and the family of the other two victems ? what will their familys think if people were to turn up to the court house and stand up for this private ? this private is being punished for what he did and when he comes before god god will also deal with him God bless from damo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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