Steff Posted May 29, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2004 Hitler wasn't an athiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arkon Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 There was no question put forth. You said "I dare you to prove that one" Now, proof, is not an argument. Proof is the end of an argument. The thing I am proving is that Evolution is a lie compared to what the bible teaches. Now, I ask again, what would be considered proof in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted May 29, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2004 Hitler wasn't an athiest. Okay, you can provide quotes from earlier in his life showing him to be a 'christian' and I can provide quotes from later in his life showing him to be an athiest. The fact that he killed himself and his wife in the end should show you that he didn't even beleive he was a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted May 29, 2004 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Steff, you siad: Hitler wasn't an athiest. You are correct, Hitler was not an atheist. He was a Satanist that followed a Darwinian philosophy of a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bread_of_Life Posted May 30, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 872 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/24/1981 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Science is your crutch for atheism This statement is wrong on every single level I can think of. Firstly, it is factually wrong - I do not and have not ever used science as a reason for disbelieving in God. It is also theoretically wrong, since nowhere in science or any scientific literature will you find proof or argument against the existence of God - nor will you find any scientific evidence that God does not exist. Even if we take a watered down version of what you said, say: "Science is a crutch for your disbelief in Christianity" it would still be factually wrong (since science is not a reason or crutch for my disbelief in Christianity), and also theoretically wrong, since this statement would rely on the assumption that there is only one form of Christianity, and that form takes the literal reading of Genesis. Since this is clearly not true, this watered down statement fails on every level. Even if we take a really really watered down version of your statement, say: "Science is a crutch for your disbelief in the literal interpretation of Genesis" then the statement still fails - firstly because the word "crutch" becomes inappropriate in this usage, and secondly, even if we replace the word "crutch" with "reason", the real reason I disbelieve in the literal interpretation of Genesis is not because of some sort of abstract belief in science, or faith in scientists, but rather because of the evidence we have uncovered. Therefore this statement fails on pretty much every level, even if heavily modified to make it more accurate. So, it is a Good and true statement to say that evolution is hollow. Well, it's true to say that evolution is not a replacement for Christianity, since it isn't a religion, and therefore it is spiritually hollow. But then, the theory of gravity is also spiritually hollow, because it isn't a religion either, and cannot therefore hope to bring spiritual fulfillment. I wonder why you didnt just ask where the steam engine came from...or rifle..or jeans and T-shirts. That was a really weak argument.. It really surprises me that you didnt just state "Why havnt I seen this in a scientific paper? " Is this the sort of statement you make when you'd rather not actually answer an argument? Yes. Evolution is believed by you and many others...even tho you have not seen it happen, nor is there enough evidence (if there was then I would be with you). This being the case....it requires belief by faith. This statement also fails on every level. Firstly, if true, it would mean that every science about the past is faith based. For example, if a forensic scientist found a man with 20 stab wounds in his back, a knife lying beside him with the fingerprints of a man whose wife the victim had been sleeping with all over it - the forensic scientist would be religiously faithful to say that the man had been murdered, because he was not there to see and witness it himself. Of course, this is bunk - there are other kinds of evidence other than direct sensory evidence of an event - the past leaves evidential clues to the future, allowing us to build a body of evidence, and also make predictions about future observations and experiment. In this case, the forensic scientist, despite the fact that he wasn't there at the scene when the crime happened, will have lots of evidence that a crime really did happen. In the case of evolution, we also have plenty of evidence that it did happen, because it has left clues in fossils, in our morphology, embryology, and genetic code. No faith required, just standard evidence gathering and testing of predictions. Secondly, the statement fails because it does not answer the question. My question was, "Could you give me any evidence or argument to the effect that evolution is a religious statement against christ?" not "could you give me any evidence that evolution is religious?" Your answer failed completely to give any evidence at all that evolution is a statement against Christ or Christianity. By defacto decree, belief in evolution requires disbelief in the entire bible....yes...the ENTIRE bible.... Why? Because God says it happened different. Jesus and the apostles all quote Genesis. There are other interpretations of Genesis, as a figurative or spiritual account of man's creation and fall, rather than a strictly factual one. Therefore, again, you simply dismiss these interpretations as if they do not exist, just because they are not your own. This is of course, untenable philosophically, but typical of the creationist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arkon Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 (edited) a crutch is something you lean on when you cant stand on what you were given. Evolution, as defined in my 6th grade sons school book, says that life came about from a primordial soup....a simple life form happened...and then over billions of years....changed into everything we see today. It is this evolution that denies Genesis. Edited May 31, 2004 by arkon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 (edited) By defacto decree, belief in evolution requires disbelief in the entire bible....yes...the ENTIRE bible.... Why? Because God says it happened different. Jesus and the apostles all quote Genesis. Actaully if you disagree with Arkon on anything, that means you hate God. You don't have to be an evolutionist. Just disagree with him on the age of the earth. That makes you a evil, God-slandering heathen. To disagree with Arkon is to deny God. Pretty much what creationists turn into when they have no real arguments or debate skills. Just cast dispersions on people's faith. Thought such was beneath you. This is why Christians look like idiots to the scientific community. Edited May 30, 2004 by shiloh357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 30, 2004 (edited) Evolution is a religion based on faith. Case closed. Hey, Arkon - 1) Evolution is NOT a religion. Statements like this make Christians look like idiots and imbeciles. Why? Did you turn to Jesus to understand the history of the Earth? Is your faith in Jesus grounded on how species do or do not adapt to changing environments? Does your belief in Jesus require you to envision God as a "magician" - as in speak, "poof", there it is! Is it stated in the Bible that to study the history of the Earth is sin? If so, please show me book, chapter, and verse. Is genetic research a sin? Would you then refuse medical treatment that had been developed through genentic research? LEt me try another approach: Definition of religion (Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, Edited May 30, 2004 by Dr. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 30, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2004 (edited) Arkon you remind me of a young kid learning to play poker, who has a worthless hand, and then laying down his cards and claiming "I Win!". You may think you're right, but it doesn't make it so. If you want people to see your point of view you have to at least argue reasonably, which you have failed to do on any level. If this was a debate class you'd have a big fat 'F'. Truthfully, I'll bet Satan is having more fun watching Christians wasting time fighting evolution as a means of spreading the Gospel rather than spending efforts doing the work of the Gospel. We'll win a lot more souls if we would feed the hungry, cloth the naked, heal the sick, visit those who are alone, blessing those who curse us, and the like. Amen Nebula. My belief in evolution has nothing to do with my belief in Christ. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. One is a basis of faith and one is a basis of scientific observations Edited May 30, 2004 by Steff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2004 Grace to you all, In order to keep this thread open I had to edit portions of this last page. Amen Nebula. True religion! Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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