Can a Christian who refuses to be baptized be a Christian?

[Guest Biblicist]

Neither of my children have been baptized, they are 16 and 13, I do not feel it is right to force them into it. My nephew's grandmother told him, "Alright now, you are old enough, you've accepted Christ it's time to get Baptized." And so he did. I'm not sure if that's the right approach.

Both my children have been asked, by family and church members why and they both shrug their shoulders. Does that mean they are refusing to follow God's ordinance to be baptized? Or is it just something that the Lord has not revealed them to do at this point? Both of them have been taught from God's Word about it. So it's not like they don't know what is right. They just don't "want" to. Is that refusal?

Does it mean they are living in sin because they haven't?

I'd like to give you a real life story about why NOT to force your child to be baptized.

Growing up, I knew what baptism was and it would terrify me. I was very shy and didn't want to be in front of people. As a child of 8 or 9 I remember asking my dad why he couldnt just baptize me in the bathtub.

At 10, I said in an indirect way that I had gotten saved and my parents brought up baptism. I still remember, because it was so stressful and unpleasant to me, sitting in the living room as they talked to me about it and I would not give in to the idea. For whatever reason they dropped it at the time.

When I was actually saved at the age of 12 in summer tent meetings, baptism was the last thing on my mind. I was too busy enjoying the freedom from that heavy weight, and the tenderness of a new conscience.

Then my mom started bringing it up, and I started getting uncomfortable. Again I remember one night going to church in the fall, and she had been talking about it, and I told her I wouldnt, and she was mad at me.

Finally bowing to the pressure, I asked our pastor to get baptized, and was with a group of other people in early October. It was not a special time for me though,and afterward as people were having fellowship my mom commented to me on how I didnt look happy. I just frowned and turned away.

The reason I told you is the whole episode was entirely unpleasant. I was a child and a new Christian and there was no joy in being baptised or even really understanding full well the signifigance. It was just something to do so my mom would stop bothering me about it. It still leaves a bitter taste in my memory. So be careful how you approach it with your children. It could be they are just scared at being in front of people.

Both of my children are extreemly shy. Neither one is interested in getting up before a large group of people, even people they have come to know and love, and sharing their testimony. I have not pressed the issue with them for the very reason you stated.

I want it to be a joy for them. Thank you for sharing your story ~smiles~.

[Guest Biblicist]

Do you think they are ashamed of the Gospel of Christ?

Not in any way, they share it regularly with their friends, and teachers at school.

Biblicist,

If a am being nosy, please tell me so.

But I am curious. Have they made a public profession of faith in your/their church?

I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church and typically baptism is arranged as soon as such a profession is made.

Do things work differently in you church?

I suppose I am not understanding the situation very well.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Mudcat,

If I had not wanted people to pry into my children's private lives I would not have posted the question on a public message board, so NO you are not being nosy.

A very good question.

When my children accepted Christ into their lives as Personal Saviour, they were both "to young" to get baptized. The usual age is 8, because of understanding, etc.

We hopped around to a couple churches since then, finally settling on the one we are in now, going on five years ago. No one in our church has pressed them to get baptized.

They have never professed their faith in church, but they have to us, their parents, and family members. The verse doesn't actually say "in church" so I don't think that is a pre-requesite is it?

I have no doubt as to their relationship with Jesus Christ, as Saviour. Not just because I am their mother, I don't believe in looking at your children through rose colored glasses, it's a detriment to their spiritual well-being, but because their fruit speaks loudly of having the Holy Spirit to guide them.

[Smalcald]

Neither of my children have been baptized, they are 16 and 13, I do not feel it is right to force them into it. My nephew's grandmother told him, "Alright now, you are old enough, you've accepted Christ it's time to get Baptized." And so he did. I'm not sure if that's the right approach.

Both my children have been asked, by family and church members why and they both shrug their shoulders. Does that mean they are refusing to follow God's ordinance to be baptized? Or is it just something that the Lord has not revealed them to do at this point? Both of them have been taught from God's Word about it. So it's not like they don't know what is right. They just don't "want" to. Is that refusal?

Does it mean they are living in sin because they haven't?

I'd like to give you a real life story about why NOT to force your child to be baptized.

Growing up, I knew what baptism was and it would terrify me. I was very shy and didn't want to be in front of people. As a child of 8 or 9 I remember asking my dad why he couldnt just baptize me in the bathtub.

At 10, I said in an indirect way that I had gotten saved and my parents brought up baptism. I still remember, because it was so stressful and unpleasant to me, sitting in the living room as they talked to me about it and I would not give in to the idea. For whatever reason they dropped it at the time.

When I was actually saved at the age of 12 in summer tent meetings, baptism was the last thing on my mind. I was too busy enjoying the freedom from that heavy weight, and the tenderness of a new conscience.

Then my mom started bringing it up, and I started getting uncomfortable. Again I remember one night going to church in the fall, and she had been talking about it, and I told her I wouldnt, and she was mad at me.

Finally bowing to the pressure, I asked our pastor to get baptized, and was with a group of other people in early October. It was not a special time for me though,and afterward as people were having fellowship my mom commented to me on how I didnt look happy. I just frowned and turned away.

The reason I told you is the whole episode was entirely unpleasant. I was a child and a new Christian and there was no joy in being baptised or even really understanding full well the signifigance. It was just something to do so my mom would stop bothering me about it. It still leaves a bitter taste in my memory. So be careful how you approach it with your children. It could be they are just scared at being in front of people.

I don't think there is any scriptural command that baptism must be in any particular setting. It can be done privately it can be just the minister and you, or any other mature Christian for that matter, the key is that it is done, the power is the baptism itself, not our feelings about it one way or the other. Although I am sure I have a totally different view of Baptism than most here, regardless I do think we should be open to people's feelings about how it is done. In the end we need two things, water and the Word of God; outside of that you can be standing alone in the country with one other person, like the Ethiopian and the Baptism is true.

[Smalcald]

Not being baptized does not mean one has refused.

A woman lives in a small town with two churches. She came to Christ with the help of her visiting relatives and the calling of John 6. After a while of reading and long distance counseling she decided to be baptized. Both churches refused to baptize her unless she joined their church but she does not like the leaders of either church and refuses to join. Is she s Christian?

JB

Hey JB,

Yes, she is.

I find the fact, that neither church would baptize her, a little preposterous and not Christ centered.

Should we encourage her to travel out of town to find a church.

Should she ask if her relatives could arrange a baptism in their church, when she visits.

Or should we pat her on the back and say "That's Ok, baptism isn't a requirement of Salvation?"

I think the Bible is clear that Christ was baptized. In who's name was Christ baptized?

As to who's name Jesus was baptized in, or if he was baptized in the name of any is not spelled out in scripture.

In the Great Commission Jesus commanded the Apostles to baptize. Did He command then to be baptized for salvation?

He commanded them to teach and to baptize. I have already stated that its not a requirement for salvation. The underlying question is that if a person is aware that they should be baptized and chooses not to....Will Christ accept them, or is their commitment disingenuous?

I think it is also clear that Christians in the early church were baptized. As they are today.

I agree at least in part. With the various verbal baptismal formulas as well as differing physical modes...(sprinkling, pouring, immersion).

I think we would be making a stretch to say there is some consistent format. 'Sort of like they are today' might make more sense.

I think the Bible would council us in many places to baptized as well. It also council us not to sin, to take of the Lords supper, to do good works and to fellowship with other Christians.

Agreed.

I also believe that someone who takes the time to read the Bible, can't walk away from it with an understanding that they should not be baptized. Most new Christians have never read the Bible.

I know a lot of old Christians that don't either, I suppose ignorance can be a cop out as long as people want to remain ignorant. But what does that speak to their commitment to Christ?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Hi,

In this case, I would agree with these churches that you do not simply play around with baptism, I think the same would hold for communion. Baptism is serious, adults should not be baptized who do not even understand what the congregation believes about baptism, thus they should be members in my opinion, or in the process of becoming a member.

Why would you seek Baptism in a Church you refused to join? IF joining this Church IS against your faith, then you should not seek to be baptized by them. Not that the baptism is dependant on who does it or what the congregation is or is not, the key though is playing around with the Sacrament of Baptism, it is not a McDonalds meal that one can just drop in and get then go on your way, congregations need to take this seriously, and one way to do that is to reach out to people in love offering them to join and be one with that Christian group and to instruct them in the Christian faith and insruct them in what they are receiving in Baptism.

[JB Horn]

Not being baptized does not mean one has refused.

A woman lives in a small town with two churches. She came to Christ with the help of her visiting relatives and the calling of John 6. After a while of reading and long distance counseling she decided to be baptized. Both churches refused to baptize her unless she joined their church but she does not like the leaders of either church and refuses to join. Is she s Christian?

JB

Hey JB,

Yes, she is.

I find the fact, that neither church would baptize her, a little preposterous and not Christ centered.

Should we encourage her to travel out of town to find a church.

Should she ask if her relatives could arrange a baptism in their church, when she visits.

Or should we pat her on the back and say "That's Ok, baptism isn't a requirement of Salvation?"

I think the Bible is clear that Christ was baptized. In who's name was Christ baptized?

As to who's name Jesus was baptized in, or if he was baptized in the name of any is not spelled out in scripture.

In the Great Commission Jesus commanded the Apostles to baptize. Did He command then to be baptized for salvation?

He commanded them to teach and to baptize. I have already stated that its not a requirement for salvation. The underlying question is that if a person is aware that they should be baptized and chooses not to....Will Christ accept them, or is their commitment disingenuous?

I think it is also clear that Christians in the early church were baptized. As they are today.

I agree at least in part. With the various verbal baptismal formulas as well as differing physical modes...(sprinkling, pouring, immersion).

I think we would be making a stretch to say there is some consistent format. 'Sort of like they are today' might make more sense.

I think the Bible would council us in many places to baptized as well. It also council us not to sin, to take of the Lords supper, to do good works and to fellowship with other Christians.

Agreed.

I also believe that someone who takes the time to read the Bible, can't walk away from it with an understanding that they should not be baptized. Most new Christians have never read the Bible.

I know a lot of old Christians that don't either, I suppose ignorance can be a cop out as long as people want to remain ignorant. But what does that speak to their commitment to Christ?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Hi,

In this case, I would agree with these churches that you do not simply play around with baptism, I think the same would hold for communion. Baptism is serious, adults should not be baptized who do not even understand what the congregation believes about baptism, thus they should be members in my opinion, or in the process of becoming a member.

Why would you seek Baptism in a Church you refused to join? IF joining this Church IS against your faith, then you should not seek to be baptized by them. Not that the baptism is dependant on who does it or what the congregation is or is not, the key though is playing around with the Sacrament of Baptism, it is not a McDonalds meal that one can just drop in and get then go on your way, congregations need to take this seriously, and one way to do that is to reach out to people in love offering them to join and be one with that Christian group and to instruct them in the Christian faith and insruct them in what they are receiving in Baptism.

As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's water! What would keep me from being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

It's not baptism in a Church, it's baptism in The Church. Do you want to stand in front of God and explain to Him why you refused to baptize a Christian or where you came up with this extra requirement for baptism?

JB

[Mudcat]

As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's water! What would keep me from being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

It's not baptism in a Church, it's baptism in The Church. Do you want to stand in front of God and explain to Him why you refused to baptize a Christian or where you came up with this extra requirement for baptism?

JB

Hi JB,

You took the words right out of my mouth and stated it better than I could have.

There is only one Church of which we should concern ourselves of membership.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

[Ddavid from NC]

Water baptism is commanded so therefore I don't see it as an option. However, it does not save you. It is not sacramental. But, a person's refusal would make their profession suspect. However, can we judge that biblically. If we use phobia as an excuse, have we weakened the belief that we are no longer in bondage?

[Smalcald]

Not being baptized does not mean one has refused.

A woman lives in a small town with two churches. She came to Christ with the help of her visiting relatives and the calling of John 6. After a while of reading and long distance counseling she decided to be baptized. Both churches refused to baptize her unless she joined their church but she does not like the leaders of either church and refuses to join. Is she s Christian?

JB

Hey JB,

Yes, she is.

I find the fact, that neither church would baptize her, a little preposterous and not Christ centered.

Should we encourage her to travel out of town to find a church.

Should she ask if her relatives could arrange a baptism in their church, when she visits.

Or should we pat her on the back and say "That's Ok, baptism isn't a requirement of Salvation?"

I think the Bible is clear that Christ was baptized. In who's name was Christ baptized?

As to who's name Jesus was baptized in, or if he was baptized in the name of any is not spelled out in scripture.

In the Great Commission Jesus commanded the Apostles to baptize. Did He command then to be baptized for salvation?

He commanded them to teach and to baptize. I have already stated that its not a requirement for salvation. The underlying question is that if a person is aware that they should be baptized and chooses not to....Will Christ accept them, or is their commitment disingenuous?

I think it is also clear that Christians in the early church were baptized. As they are today.

I agree at least in part. With the various verbal baptismal formulas as well as differing physical modes...(sprinkling, pouring, immersion).

I think we would be making a stretch to say there is some consistent format. 'Sort of like they are today' might make more sense.

I think the Bible would council us in many places to baptized as well. It also council us not to sin, to take of the Lords supper, to do good works and to fellowship with other Christians.

Agreed.

I also believe that someone who takes the time to read the Bible, can't walk away from it with an understanding that they should not be baptized. Most new Christians have never read the Bible.

I know a lot of old Christians that don't either, I suppose ignorance can be a cop out as long as people want to remain ignorant. But what does that speak to their commitment to Christ?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Hi,

In this case, I would agree with these churches that you do not simply play around with baptism, I think the same would hold for communion. Baptism is serious, adults should not be baptized who do not even understand what the congregation believes about baptism, thus they should be members in my opinion, or in the process of becoming a member.

Why would you seek Baptism in a Church you refused to join? IF joining this Church IS against your faith, then you should not seek to be baptized by them. Not that the baptism is dependant on who does it or what the congregation is or is not, the key though is playing around with the Sacrament of Baptism, it is not a McDonalds meal that one can just drop in and get then go on your way, congregations need to take this seriously, and one way to do that is to reach out to people in love offering them to join and be one with that Christian group and to instruct them in the Christian faith and insruct them in what they are receiving in Baptism.

As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's water! What would keep me from being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

It's not baptism in a Church, it's baptism in The Church. Do you want to stand in front of God and explain to Him why you refused to baptize a Christian or where you came up with this extra requirement for baptism?

JB

"If you believe with all your heart you may" is the operative statement, " I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" was the reply, there is a deep disobediance and pride in someone who wants to come among believers and claim those things, yet reject those very believers as being "good enough" for them. Why not become a true member if you want to be baptized by these very people?

If you don't agree with them and really just believe that Baptism itself has no power, is mainly just a show then why invovle a congregation; go get a buddy to do it and be done with it.

I would never refuse to baptize a Christian who wants baptism.

However we do know this:

21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality. 22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people

[Smalcald]

As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's water! What would keep me from being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

It's not baptism in a Church, it's baptism in The Church. Do you want to stand in front of God and explain to Him why you refused to baptize a Christian or where you came up with this extra requirement for baptism?

JB

Hi JB,

You took the words right out of my mouth and stated it better than I could have.

There is only one Church of which we should concern ourselves of membership.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

All true, which is why the refusal to be part of that true Church would be a real concern.

[nebula]

For an alternate perspective:

I have heard that in other countries, specifically Muslim controlled countries, a person is not considered to be a Christian until they become baptised.

A person can do the "Christian thing" all they want without reprocussion, but once they are baptised they are markded for persecution.

(My paraphrase of how I heard it.)