Guest man Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 If what you do has no eternal value and is not done for the glory of JESUS, if all you do is feed people, then you are doing a great service, just not a Christian service. It may have some worldly value, but it has no real value. What good does it do to make a person comfortable for the rest of this life so they can go to Hell? Perhaps if you spent more time in church you would understand the fact that it is eternal issues that matter. Matthew 25 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Just because a group of Christians gets together and JESUS is there with them, does that make it a church? Or is it just a group of Christians getting together? What would you call it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Why complicate matters by seceding from church and doing one's own thing when God tells us not to stop meeting together regularly? Matthew 18 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." Interpret that verse for me. Please. Matthew 18:19-20 "I also tell you this: If two of you agree here on earth concerning anything you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you. For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them." He is instructing on prayer. So if prayer is involved, He's there. If there is no prayer, He's not there. Is that what you mean? WHAT? I do not speak in riddles and neither does the Lord. I gave Scripture--which was plain in meaning. I'm not speaking in riddles either. The question is simple. Is that your interpretation of that verse? Is He only there when prayer is involved? I gave my interpretation. Jesus was discussing prayer. It is effective because when we approach him regarding anything we ask together, joining herats, he is right there, present, hearing us. Simple yes or no will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 15, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 The purpose of a church is to equip the membrs for ministry. That ministry is the work of leading people to the LORD. If a church is not actively leading people to the LORD, is not equipping it's members (which includes motivating them) to spread the gospel, then is it a church? It is a yes or no question. Just because a group of Christians gets together and JESUS is there with them, does that make it a church? Or is it just a group of Christians getting together? Answer -- YES Consider - The "fruit" of Church is not number of salvations or number of members equipped. "Being the Church" has nothing to do with "doing" anything. "Being the Church" is all about who we are in Christ, in the world (us, with Him being found among us). Incidentally, the early "Church meeting" was not evangelistic. It did not preach the Gospel, It had no sermons, It did not have altar calls. It was primarily a private meeting of Believers. The Gospel was preached and sermons given to unbelievers in public forums, not to Believers in the private meetings. A. How do you know that about the early church? Is it in the Bible or id someone tell you that and you believed it? B. How did these believers become believers? Did someone from the "Church" go out and tell them about JESUS? Did the number of members grow as a result of the work of the church? I think so. And i think the meets were for the education and equipping of the saints to go and tell the news about JESUS (spreding the gospel) I seriously doubt that they sat around gosiping about the weather or the latest political candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 15, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The purpose of a church is to equip the membrs for ministry. That ministry is the work of leading people to the LORD. If a church is not actively leading people to the LORD, is not equipping it's members (which includes motivating them) to spread the gospel, then is it a church? It is a yes or no question. Just because a group of Christians gets together and JESUS is there with them, does that make it a church? Or is it just a group of Christians getting together? Answer -- YES Consider - The "fruit" of Church is not number of salvations or number of members equipped. "Being the Church" has nothing to do with "doing" anything. "Being the Church" is all about who we are in Christ, in the world (us, with Him being found among us). Incidentally, the early "Church meeting" was not evangelistic. It did not preach the Gospel, It had no sermons, It did not have altar calls. It was primarily a private meeting of Believers. The Gospel was preached and sermons given in public forums, not in the private meetings. Hi, Shlomo! Yes, WE are the Church, and yes this description is a "church" (group), but if it is not equipping its members in ministry and actively pursuing evangelization, then it is not going to have a long life. Shalom sis -- My momma taught me never to argue with a woman with an axe !! I think that we agree on the definition of "the Church" but we may be talking about a different animal in "a Church." I respect your statement that it will not have a long life, but I question why that is in the definition. A Church is a Church even if only three people meet and they do no evangelism and do not equip their members. It is very possible that they will not have a long life, but the length of that Church is not in question - only its existence. BTW - Imagine a meeting of like-minded Believers who gather in a private place (not public) to worship God and spend time in His presence in a corporate setting (in addition to their personal one-on-one relationship with Him). Evangelism is not their goal. Neither is equipping the Believers. Yet God shows up and has access to their hearts and they are changed. He expresses Himself to the corporate group through individual members (one has a word, one has a song, one has a tongue, one has an interpretation) for the mutual edification of all. That Church will have a loooooooonnnnnnnnnng life. shlomo Amen! I am a member of a large cell church, and when we meet in homes for our cell meetings, we consider that church as well---groups of anywhere from 4 to 12 people can constitute a cell. So, as we meet, we join our hearts in worship, and in prayer and we receive from the Word of God and receive and give encouragement and ministry, and we bring in the lost to hear the gospel of truth...all "churchy" things! --all edifying, and all because Jesus Christ is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 16, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Amen! I am a member of a large cell church, and when we meet in homes for our cell meetings, we consider that church as well---groups of anywhere from 4 to 12 people can constitute a cell. So, as we meet, we join our hearts in worship, and in prayer and we receive from the Word of God and receive and give encouragement and ministry, and we bring in the lost to hear the gospel of truth...all "churchy" things! --all edifying, and all because Jesus Christ is present. Yes - AMEN. So the answer to kross' question here and man's question here is still an absolute YES !! And now that we have demonstrated and agree that a "Church" does not have to pursue evangelism or equip its members to "be" a Church. It is clear that the fruit of a real Church, regardless of size, will include evangelism and equipping the saints. My point was that the topic of discussion was not a definition of a Church but a description of their fruit. shalom sis shlomo This may seem like an attack but it is just a question to clarify your position; Would you say that a group of people gathering at a Christian coffe shop to chat is a church? Just a yes or no will work. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 16, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thank you all. I see that we see things somewhat differently. I agree that JESUS is with any group of Christians when they meet. I am not sure that means they are a church, even though they are THE CHURCH. Peace to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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