What is a church

[Floatingaxe]

One is not a Christian by virtue of attending a "church" on Sunday anymore than he is a car by living in a garage. All genuine believers have the same life in common, that is the eternal uncreated divine life of God. The OP seems to imply that being a "Christian" necessitates the salvation of "souls." It is God Himself who regenerates the human spirit with His life. As believers we only have the duty to proclaim the Messiah. In any functioning gathering of saints ("church") there are ones who actively preach the gospel and others who do so through their testimony and living. God's life has an expression, and that expression is displayed in those who live Christ day by day. By living Christ believers become living testimonies of the saving grace of the Triune God in His all-sufficiency.

More to the point, the OP indicates that in order to be an asset to the kingdom of GOD a person needs to live by the guidlnes established in the scriptures. The key to those guidlines being;

An active member in a congregation of believers (if you get your imputs from the world only, you will not be an effective servent of JESUS)

That the church is to equip and send out preachers and teachers (evangelists) to reach and save the lost. (yes GOD does the saving and HE has chosen who HE is going to save)

Create an environment in which growth in knowledge and power exist for the new convert as well as the veteran.

create an environment in which members of the kingdom of GOD are empowered to be involved in the effort to spread the gospel.

One is not a Christian by virtue of attending church and a congregation is not a church by virtue of being attended by Christians.

Actually it's not a church by virtue of being attended by Christians. All Christians are the church.

And all Christians NEED the benefit of fellowship and learning and ministry in a membership we call church. God is the one who plants us there, if we would only allow Him.

[Guest man]

If they do not attend church then that would mean that they do not meet with other Christians for the purpose of discipleship and evangelism. What other value is there? after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

This is how many posts you have as of right now, "Posts: 293".

This site is not what one would call a "traditional " church.

How many times out of those 293 posts did you talk to another christian? How many times did you give advice? How many times did you make an attempt to teach?

What other value is there?

Good question.

after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

In every church I've ever attended, the only speaker was the pastor/minister.

How is my sitting there in silence, making a disciple of all the others in attendance?

[Floatingaxe]

If they do not attend church then that would mean that they do not meet with other Christians for the purpose of discipleship and evangelism. What other value is there? after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

This is how many posts you have as of right now, "Posts: 293".

This site is not what one would call a "traditional " church.

How many times out of those 293 posts did you talk to another christian? How many times did you give advice? How many times did you make an attempt to teach?

What other value is there?

Good question.

after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

In every church I've ever attended, the only speaker was the pastor/minister.

How is my sitting there in silence, making a disciple of all the others in attendance?

Going to church is an act of obedience and honour to God. It does not boil down to "sitting there in silence", listening to a pastor preach. There is so much more benefit to us personally and spiritually to belong to a chuirch. God will not honour a person who refuses to fellowship. In fact a person who refuses to fellowship and receive teaching in righteousness, will fall into error as there is nothing to correct him and show him the error, and so he will go uncorrected and build error on top of error until he becomes rather heretical in his ways. It is not a safe practice to live outside of the church--in fact, it is plain and simple rebellion, a divided heart.

A person who loves God will obey Him in fellowshiping with other Christians. He loves to receive instruction in the Word, and receive encouragement in the Lord from others. He loves to worship God in His house, joining His voice and lifting His hands with others in praise and adoration. He loves to lift up His voice in prayer along with others. He loves to receive confirmation from others regarding his own giftings and personal ministry. He loves to use his gifts to build up others through teaching and exhortation in the faith. He loves to receive correction by others who are older and wiser in the faith, and loves to witness growth in his sisters and brothers in that family of God he calls "home". He receives great strength from his church family to share his faith with the lost, bringing in new believers and discipling them in the faith just as he himself was discipled.

We are called to reproduce ourselves, bringing in spiritual children, for which we receive great reward in the here and now and in heaven.

[kross]

If they do not attend church then that would mean that they do not meet with other Christians for the purpose of discipleship and evangelism. What other value is there? after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

This is how many posts you have as of right now, "Posts: 293".

This site is not what one would call a "traditional " church.

How many times out of those 293 posts did you talk to another christian? How many times did you give advice? How many times did you make an attempt to teach?

What other value is there?

Good question.

after all, our charge is to go and make disciples as we go.

In every church I've ever attended, the only speaker was the pastor/minister.

How is my sitting there in silence, making a disciple of all the others in attendance?

By your very statement you have acknowledged that being here posting, asking, answering, is attending church. IS it not?

If the churches you attended do not have a Bible study where you can ask, answer, and discuss, then you have just made the point I made at the beginning of this string.

[mizzdy]

God will not honour a person who refuses to fellowship. In fact a person who refuses to fellowship and receive teaching in righteousness, will fall into error as there is nothing to correct him and show him the error, and so he will go uncorrected and build error on top of error until he becomes rather heretical in his ways. It is not a safe practice to live outside of the church--in fact, it is plain and simple rebellion, a divided heart.

He loves to worship God in His house, joining His voice and lifting His hands with others in praise and adoration. He loves to lift up His voice in prayer along with others. He loves to receive confirmation from others regarding his own giftings and personal ministry

In this reasoning God will not honor anyone who doesn't go to a church for fellowship? Will God honor those who do have fellowship with others but not in a church setting? From what I can see being in a church doesn't negate error by any stretch of the imagination since so many don't seem to be teaching the same from the same page. And frankly I have always been under the impression it is the Holy Spirit that imparts knowledge.

I do not attend a church so by your reasoning I have a divided heart yet I know for a fact that I don't and I am not in rebellion at all. In an earlier post you stated God is the one who plants us where we need to be or you said a church if only we would listen. What is your opinion then if one is not called to attend a church? I also thought that when God calls us to him we go to Him through His Son and the Spirit leads/teaches/convicts us. Am I saying churches are wrong to attend? absolutely not, am I wondering why there are some who think fellowship only comes from a church, yes I am wondering that. I tend to think that God hears my voice right here wherever I am and since I understand I am the temple of God I would wonder if a church is actually His house. I have a wonderful personal relation with God and His Son and I praise God everyday that I have His love and Grace in my life.

[kross]

God will not honour a person who refuses to fellowship. In fact a person who refuses to fellowship and receive teaching in righteousness, will fall into error as there is nothing to correct him and show him the error, and so he will go uncorrected and build error on top of error until he becomes rather heretical in his ways. It is not a safe practice to live outside of the church--in fact, it is plain and simple rebellion, a divided heart.

He loves to worship God in His house, joining His voice and lifting His hands with others in praise and adoration. He loves to lift up His voice in prayer along with others. He loves to receive confirmation from others regarding his own giftings and personal ministry

In this reasoning God will not honor anyone who doesn't go to a church for fellowship? Will God honor those who do have fellowship with others but not in a church setting? From what I can see being in a church doesn't negate error by any stretch of the imagination since so many don't seem to be teaching the same from the same page. And frankly I have always been under the impression it is the Holy Spirit that imparts knowledge.

I do not attend a church so by your reasoning I have a divided heart yet I know for a fact that I don't and I am not in rebellion at all. In an earlier post you stated God is the one who plants us where we need to be or you said a church if only we would listen. What is your opinion then if one is not called to attend a church? I also thought that when God calls us to him we go to Him through His Son and the Spirit leads/teaches/convicts us. Am I saying churches are wrong to attend? absolutely not, am I wondering why there are some who think fellowship only comes from a church, yes I am wondering that. I tend to think that God hears my voice right here wherever I am and since I understand I am the temple of God I would wonder if a church is actually His house. I have a wonderful personal relation with God and His Son and I praise God everyday that I have His love and Grace in my life.

Mizzdy, I have to ask, are you leading people to the LORD, making disciples and baptising them in HIS name?

If so, then great. You are leading a church. If not, then what are you doing?

The church offers many people the place where they can bring those who need salvation, discipleship, and baptism. In the church are those who are gifted to fullfill this most important command to the church.

You can feed the hungry, house the homeless and clothe the naked, but if it is not saving a soul or making a disciple or leading folk to know JESUS, then it is of no importance.

So, how do you fulfill the command to go and make disciples if yu are not in a church?

[Floatingaxe]

There is no wriggling out of it. The NT is written to those who attend churches. The early believers met in churches and that doesn't mean church buildings. They formed churches in homes. There is no other option. We must associate, meet and fellowship together. It is what God desires for us. We must be obedient.

As for God not honouring those who disobey Him in this...it is true. He isn't going to bless someone who disassembles with wisdom and knowledge and success in his spiritual walk if he isn't in the place where he can learn of God's will for him, and learn of His ways, and be used of Him there.

If a Christian refuses to be in ministry in God's house, then why would God use him in the world, when He has countless of Christians who obey whom He can trust to impart truth right there in His house to choose from??

[mizzdy]

So, how do you fulfill the command to go and make disciples if yu are not in a church?

Does talking to others about Christ and sharing the bible with them count? Does confessing ones own faith with others count? Does meeting with others in ones home count? I must admit I have never babtized anyone so I guess I have fallen short on that one. I don't believe I ever said or told anyone not to go to church or not to have anything to do with a church did I? Nor have I ever say that I am opposed to going to church. Often I hear that if I am not in a church I am something less than everyone else, not seen by God, not of His house, those things which I myself find offensive. I suppose that having others to share with and be with outside of a church is somehow not enough without the backing of a church building.

The church offers many people the place where they can bring those who need salvation, discipleship, and baptism. In the church are those who are gifted to fullfill this most important command to the church.

I have never said otherwise and believe what you have written but I don't believe one needs a church building to do all of that. As far as saving anyone, I myself cannot do that only but I can lead someone to Christ and God and I try to do that every chance I get. I am not going to debate about whether someone has to sit in a church pew every week to be a christian or a child of God since I don't believe that is true. I have bible study with others, I fellowship with others and share God's grace and love with others, and share Christ work on the cross to others so I don't think I am going against God nor His Word. So according to what you asked I think I might just be doing as you suggested? well except for the babtism that is.

[mizzdy]

The early believers met in churches and that doesn't mean church buildings. They formed churches in homes. There is no other option. We must associate, meet and fellowship together. It is what God desires for us. We must be obedient.

I agree and this is what I do. Yet some find fault that I don't attend a church building. I believe the Word when He says where two or more are gathered in my name....

If a Christian refuses to be in ministry God's house, then why would God use him in the world, when He has countless of Christians who obey whom He can trust to impart truth right there in His house to choose from??

By your reasoning here unless you are in a church God will not use you in anyway? But then again you also say churches were formed in homes? So where in your opinion is God's house? I have to wonder why my neighbors and friends as well as family come to my husband and I when they are in need spiritually, when they have answers they cannot find without God's help, when they need comfort and know that my husband and I love the Lord and try very hard to live by what God sets forth for us. I think that the whole issue is about a building not the body of Christ which can be anywhere. And if you are in that body then you are lead by the Spirit to do the things that God wants you to do.

It is the ones outside the 'church or body' that need to be brought to Christ so if I were to meet in a library and someone comes in to check out a book and sees a group of people hearing a talk and then sitting around discussing bible passages well that person may want to know more and comes and sits down or goes home and thinks about what he saw all week long and makes a point to go to that library next week just to walk in and sit down and joins us. Thats the working of the Spirit, the call of God to that person but if I had not been in that library would that person have had that opportunity? Perhaps at some other point he would have yet I have to believe that having been at that library that day that man heard the word of God and may become saved. So my belief is that it is not the building but the people, the love of God, the out pouring of the spirit when like minded people have gathered in Christ name and the work they do with the leading of the Holy Spirit and the power of what God does in peoples lives.

[kross]

So, how do you fulfill the command to go and make disciples if yu are not in a church?

Does talking to others about Christ and sharing the bible with them count? Does confessing ones own faith with others count? Does meeting with others in ones home count? I must admit I have never babtized anyone so I guess I have fallen short on that one. I don't believe I ever said or told anyone not to go to church or not to have anything to do with a church did I? Nor have I ever say that I am opposed to going to church. Often I hear that if I am not in a church I am something less than everyone else, not seen by God, not of His house, those things which I myself find offensive. I suppose that having others to share with and be with outside of a church is somehow not enough without the backing of a church building.

The church offers many people the place where they can bring those who need salvation, discipleship, and baptism. In the church are those who are gifted to fullfill this most important command to the church.

I have never said otherwise and believe what you have written but I don't believe one needs a church building to do all of that. As far as saving anyone, I myself cannot do that only but I can lead someone to Christ and God and I try to do that every chance I get. I am not going to debate about whether someone has to sit in a church pew every week to be a christian or a child of God since I don't believe that is true. I have bible study with others, I fellowship with others and share God's grace and love with others, and share Christ work on the cross to others so I don't think I am going against God nor His Word. So according to what you asked I think I might just be doing as you suggested? well except for the babtism that is.

I agree that a person doesn't have to attend a "church" to be an active Christian. And i was not saying you are wrong. I was just asking if you are an active member of the kingdom of GOD or if you are just sitting on your salvation. There are many who do not go to church who claim to be as "Good a Christian" as anyone else, yet all they do is say they are a Christian and do nothiing to further the kingdom work.

However, the OP was about churches that do nothing for the kingdom except to meet and share stories with each other. I do not consider that a church.

How you serve is between you and GOD. If you are sharing the gospel personally, one on one, then you are doing a good work. (infact, you are doing more than most of those in good churches) If you are meeting with them in your home, you are part of a church that you feel comfortable recommending to others.

There are way to many of us who are part of a dead church bearing no fruit and just coasting through life. In that light, it might be good to tell peole that instead of telling them you do not attend church. Clearly you do.