The Anti-Christ and Mr. Obama

[Rick-Parker]

Oh goody...a bunch of Christians all pretending to know something about the 'end times.'

Your wrong...no, you're wrong...no, seriously, you're wrong...your all wrong, I'm right...no I'm right...no, you're wrong (keep re-reading that line and it will basically tell you how this thread goes)

Rick,

I found it interesting.

Thanks, that's why I posted it. To stimulate interest and though.

[MorningGlory]

Oh goody...a bunch of Christians all pretending to know something about the 'end times.'

Your wrong...no, you're wrong...no, seriously, you're wrong...your all wrong, I'm right...no I'm right...no, you're wrong (keep re-reading that line and it will basically tell you how this thread goes)

Rick,

I found it interesting.

Thanks, that's why I posted it. To stimulate interest and though.

It IS interesting. And it makes me think.....that I'M right and all of you are wrong......Uh, what was the question?

[MorningGlory]

The only interesting thing about it will be to see how this all gets recast during the next election cycle. Honestly, we've been hearing the same "endtimes" nonsense since the Coolidge administration; the only thing that has changed are the names of the players. How about we decide to break the cycle? We can start by rethinking just why it seems to be so important to identify the Antichrist. According to pretrib doctrine, there is nothing anyone can do about it, even if the Antichrist is identified as a real person. I submit that these endless rounds of "Pin The Tail On The Antichrist" are really nothing more than an elaborate avoidance behavior.

The end times are NOT nonsense. Revelations tells us, in no uncertain terms, what will occur.

[MorningGlory]

The only interesting thing about it will be to see how this all gets recast during the next election cycle. Honestly, we've been hearing the same "endtimes" nonsense since the Coolidge administration; the only thing that has changed are the names of the players. How about we decide to break the cycle? We can start by rethinking just why it seems to be so important to identify the Antichrist. According to pretrib doctrine, there is nothing anyone can do about it, even if the Antichrist is identified as a real person. I submit that these endless rounds of "Pin The Tail On The Antichrist" are really nothing more than an elaborate avoidance behavior.

The end times are NOT nonsense. Revelations tells us, in no uncertain terms, what will occur.

Then how do you explain the lack of fulfillment from the numerous charlatans claiming to have the prophetic gift? Either they are "prophesying out of their own minds" or there is something fundamentally wrong with the pre-trib/milennial interpretation. Endtimes studies are not nonsense, true. It is the lack of balance and the overemphasis on nailing down every last little detail that are nonsense. It is blithe acceptance of pseudo-prophetic utterances in God's name that is nonsense. It is the lack of accountability for those claiming to have a prophetic gift that is nonsense. Often we hear someone identify so-and-so as the Antichrist, only to have them name someone else when the first one turns out not to be - and no one will hold these charlatans feet to the fire. Or, when feet do get held to the fire, inevitably someone will ask, "Why can't we all just get along in love?" Like the kids say, "Whazzup wid dat?"

It's sickening how many Christians allow themselves to be played for fools when it comes to eschatology....or should I speak plainly?

Sure there are charlatans and phony 'prophets'. They are mere men and it seems this has always been the case. What does the babbling of false preachers have to do with Revelation? Are you saying we should hold these people accountable? Why? They are accountable to God. The lack of fulfillment of their alleged prophecies has nothing to do with the Bible's portrayal of the end of days.

[eve]

If you read the very last sentence from http://www.theroot.com/id/48879?GT1=38002

I feel that if we're not anchored in "old-time religion", as terned, that "something" new will only cause a great falling away (2 Thess 2:1, 3) when the Antichrist comes.

[MorningGlory]

They should definitely be held accountable. Those of us that know what the Bible says need to have the guts to speak up and speak out against it.

Sure, we should speak out against the phonies and liars. But...they aren't accountable to us; they are only accountable to God.

[Shiloh62]

I normally don't post the whole article, but I feel that I needed to with this one.I will post this in the politics politics forum so that more can read it. Sorry for the repetition.

The Anti-Christ And Mr. Obama

This Week's Feature Article by Jack Kelley

Since the election I've been asked a number of times to comment on the likelihood that Mr. Obama could be the anti-Christ. Let me begin by saying that having been elected President he's Mr. Obama now, not just Obama. As for him being the anti-Christ I've discouraged that thought because I don't believe it's time for the anti-Christ to be revealed yet. But apart from that there's no Biblical reason I can find that would absolutely disqualify him. And based on the things we know about the anti-Christ there's a fit in several important places. The anti-Christ will have to burst on the scene quickly and powerfully to accomplish so much in the little time he has, so maybe he'll need a head start. If that's the case, maybe Mr. Obama is on his way to becoming the anti-Christ. Let's find out.

We know that the anti-Christ will be a descendant of the people who made up the Roman Empire in Biblical times (Daniel 9:26), and he'll arrive on the world scene as a peace maker (Daniel 8:25). He won't be part of the world's powerful elite at the beginning of his career (Daniel 7:8) but will rise up among them to eventually surpass them and become the leader of the entire world. (Rev. 13:7-8)

He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power. (Daniel 8:25)

This means that he'll base his success on a lie, misrepresenting himself and his intentions, but people will want to believe him so badly that they'll disregard his inconsistencies until it's too late to stop him. Initially he'll seem successful, but just when they're saying "Peace and safety", destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains to a pregnant woman, and they won't escape (1 Thes. 5:3).

Deja Vu All Over Again?

Some of us remember when Jimmy Carter was elected President of the US. The country was fed up with Washington and even though he had no national leadership experience, we elected him because he was an outsider who promised change. He said he would never lie to us, but after the election it turned out that he had. He had misrepresented his background and didn't have the ability he needed when it came to governing. He said he was Christian and even orchestrated a land for peace deal between Israel and Egypt, but he proved to be anti-Israel. Soon we had a crisis in finance with interest rates at 20%, an energy crisis with our first gas shortages, and an administration that didn't know how to work with Congress to fix things. The Iranians captured our embassy and held our citizens hostage. Thankfully he lasted only one term.

Mr. Obama could easily turn out to be just another Jimmy Carter, and if so America will suffer through the next four years and then he'll be gone. But if he continues to be successful in convincing people all around the world that he's on the right track even though everything seems to be falling apart, it could be a different story.

If my calculations are correct, American Christians have just voted in our last presidential elections and won't be here to see if Mr. Obama turns out to be the anti-Christ or not. But someone with a lot more experience in accurately predicting the future has some interesting insight into the next few years. His name is Gerald Celente, CEO of Trends Research Institute, and he's renowned the world over for his accuracy in predicting future world and economic events. He accurately predicted the 1987 Stock market crash, the Fall of the Soviet Union, the 1997 Asian currency collapse, the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and one year before the fact predicted what he said would become known as the Panic of 2008, saying that giants would tumble to their deaths, which is what we've just seen in the fall of several of our oldest and biggest financial firms, and with the big three auto makers teetering on the brink. (You can check his track record for yourself at www.trendsresearch.com )

Celente is now forecasting revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years, cautioning that putting food on the table will be a more pressing concern than buying Christmas gifts by 2012.

According to his recent Fox News interview, called "Predicting Obama's Impact" (posted on YouTube on Nov. 10, 2008), by 2012 America will have become an undeveloped nation. There will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and holidays will be more about obtaining food than gifts.

"We're going to see the end of the retail Christmas

[MorningGlory]

]

However, feelings are not proof, especially when applied to the highly doubtful existence of an imaginary bogeyman. Boo!

Are you saying the Anti-Christ will not make his appearance?

[Celt]

There are the "many antichrists", and then 'the' antichrist. The identity of 'the' antichrist is defined by God's Word, and not by man.

Descriptions in the Book of Daniel are not the only ones given; Revelation gives more, especially in Rev.13 about the second beast named the "another beast", pointing to the 'dragon' who will work great wonders and miracles in the sight of men on earth. The word 'antichrist' per the Greek can mean the 'instead of' or 'in place of' Christ, and not just one who is opposed to Christ. One who comes and sets himself up as God, to be worshipped as God, is the Biblical meaning (even what Paul gave in 2 Thess.2 about the "son of perdition"). That moves the personality of the antichrist to religious worship, and not just politics.

Nor is there any such requirement per God's Word, that the antichrist be some element from old Rome. The blueprint of the little horn in Daniel points to the blueprint of Antiochus Epiphanes, a Syrian who took Jerusalem in 165 B.C. and fulfilled most of the prophecy but not all of it.

[Celt]

Rev 13:11-18

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

(KJV)

That Scripture is not conjecture nor mass hysteria. It is a revelation from The Lord Jesus Christ.

It also parallels His warning in Matthew 24 about a false one that is to come to Jerusalem working great signs and wonders that is to place the "abomination of desolation" in the "holy place". Christ even declared those great signs and wonders (miracles) would be so strong that it might even deceive His very elect, if it were possible for them to be deceived. The Greek words for those "great signs" and "wonders" are the same words used for miracles in many KJV scripture, including Rev.13:13-14 about the working of the "another beast", the "dragon". The Scripture is pointing to a SUPERNATURAL working of miracles, and not just playing religion by some man dressed in religious garb carrying a wand.

No Roman army did that miracle working in 70 A.D. Jerusalem, nor has anyone ever done supernatural wonders (miracles) in Jerusalem, except... our Lord Jesus and His disciples. The apostle Paul gave that same warning in 2 Thess.2 about a particular false one who will come to set himself up in the Temple of God (pointing to Jerusalem), to be worshipped in place of God.

Thus it doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to figure out our Lord is not talking about just any man, but a false one that will actually have supernatural power to work great wonders and miracles on this earth, in the sight of men, all in order to deceive as many as will into bowing to him in place of God.

This shows the ultimate Biblical meaning of the word "antichrist" is not only about those who refuse The Father and The Son, but concerning a particular entity in the antichrist role with supernatural power to work on the earth that would make many believe he is God. Everyone knows the pope is not God, and that he has not worked miracles and great signs that would deceive the majority into thinking he is God.

The events of the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th vial parallel that false working of a particular antichrist that is to come in our near future to Jerusalem. By the time the 7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial occurs, our Lord Jesus Christ will have returned to defeat that false one. Thus the command to count the number of that beast is really about noting that 6,6,6 timing when he will do his deceptive false work on this earth.