larryt Posted January 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2009 'larryt' Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Do you think that verse points to God being 'exclusive" from before Creation? Hi HIS girl, Thank you for the opportunity to respond. There are many verses in the bible that tell us that God chose/elected people before the foundation of the world to know Him. Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. This say that every one that was given to Jesus by the Father will in fact come. 2 verses later Jesus says that He will not loose any of those that the Father gives Him. All that are to be saved will be saved. None will be lost. On the other hand if God had chosen not to save anyone He would be completely just in condemning all men. God through His mercy, grace, and goodness, to show Himself as God decided to save a remnant of mankind. If God wants to be exclusive that is His option. It doesn't matter what I think. It matter what God says. 2Ti 2:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Tell me what you think Larry - would it be evil or good to create a person fully knowing that person would spend eternity in Hell? Does that sound like God from the Bible? If the bold text was a fact - then freewill would be pointless and Christs death on the Cross also. God created Adam and knew that Adam would fall. Or God is not omniscient. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Tell me what you think Larry - would it be evil or good to create a person fully knowing that person would spend eternity in Hell? Does that sound like God from the Bible? If the bold text was a fact - then freewill would be pointless and Christs death on the Cross also. God created Adam and knew that Adam would fall. Or God is not omniscient. LT The point is this Larry - Did God create some for the simple purpose to destroy? That is my question to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted January 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted January 11, 2009 But we choose hell not God. People who go to hell will want to be there, they would not fit in heaven nor would they want to be in heaven. Consider what Godly is, what is Holiness? Would a person who loves sin, who revels in sin want to be holy, which is what everyone in heaven is? This is why even in the midst of the tribulations in Revelation, the people knowing the way out, knowing that all they had to do was repent, refused to repent of their adulteries and murders etc. They loved the darkness more than the light according to scripture. So God does not want anyone to go to hell, but God does not want a robot either. A robot who He can simply program to go to heaven, in His infinite Wisdom He felt it was worth the risk of hell to create beings with a free will who could actually love Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 No - the question that has been unanswered is this: Did God create some men for the purpose of sending them to Hell? That question stems from the notion that God chose certain people for Paradise and others for Hell - pre creation. That is the question. If we have that notion then there is no need for freewill (which we all know we are blessed with) and no need for Jesus to save anyone. I think there are people here deliberately ignoring the crux of what I am getting at. Funny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted January 12, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If God is LOVE and I was in God's thoughts before creation to be birthed within His earthly creation - does it make sense then that God would deliberately create ME in order to send me to Hell? Would that be regarded as LOVE? Just a thought. Nobody is created to go to Hell. Since God knew you before you were created He had already written your name in the book of Life. It is only by our bad choices in our time here on earth that would send us to Hell. That is why the bible never says any thing about any particular time that our names are written into the book of Life, and because our names are already in the book when we are born we know that God has hope for us from our beginning. That is a God of Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 12, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Tell me what you think Larry - would it be evil or good to create a person fully knowing that person would spend eternity in Hell? Does that sound like God from the Bible? If the bold text was a fact - then freewill would be pointless and Christs death on the Cross also. God created Adam and knew that Adam would fall. Or God is not omniscient. LT The point is this Larry - Did God create some for the simple purpose to destroy? That is my question to you. Pr 16:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 12, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 12, 2009 No - the question that has been unanswered is this: Did God create some men for the purpose of sending them to Hell? That question stems from the notion that God chose certain people for Paradise and others for Hell - pre creation. That is the question. If we have that notion then there is no need for freewill (which we all know we are blessed with) and no need for Jesus to save anyone. I think there are people here deliberately ignoring the crux of what I am getting at. Funny that. You are basing you reasoning on the idea of "free will". Please define free will. I do not believe in free will. When Adam fell his will was corrupted along with all other aspects of his being, and mad subject to his fallen nature. His will was free to do what it would - hate God. It was no longer capable of or desiring to seek God. Adam hid himself. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted January 12, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted January 12, 2009 No - the question that has been unanswered is this: Did God create some men for the purpose of sending them to Hell? That question stems from the notion that God chose certain people for Paradise and others for Hell - pre creation. That is the question. If we have that notion then there is no need for freewill (which we all know we are blessed with) and no need for Jesus to save anyone. I think there are people here deliberately ignoring the crux of what I am getting at. Funny that. Well what does scripture say? Romans 9 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Raising up Pharaoh - does that mean allowing him the position of ruler over Ancient Egypt or creating him especially to let the Hebrews out of Egypt? If God created man with the intention of sending some to Hell, is there a point to Jesus birth and death? And what about the split with the angels? Would that have needed to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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