The Waters of Meribah

[sweet~lady]

Brother, earlier on you have had people say to you through this thread that this has really spoken to or touched their lives in some way, myself included. I understand that you are searching for answers but the main purpose for my posting a link with related Bible passages is so that you can search there and find a solid biblical foundation for what you feel has been given to you. We are called to test the spirits, that's precisley how it's done.. The Word will speak.. let it.

God wants to hone this gift that He has given you so that you may have unwavering confidence when He speaks to you or through you. We are cheering you on because you are on the right track..

Don't dismiss it please. And please don't apologize for the prophetic.. it is sometimes a word through an ordinary person like you or I that God chooses to deliver through, albeit at times with fear and trepidation.

I'm glad that you seem to accept what I had to say because I wondered if I was too harsh.

May God Bless and please keep typing, ok?! Thanks.

Much Love in Christ,

Wanda aka Sweet~Lady

[dcampsart]

Brother, earlier on you have had people say to you through this thread that this has really spoken to or touched their lives in some way, myself included. I understand that you are searching for answers but the main purpose for my posting a link with related Bible passages is so that you can search there and find a solid biblical foundation for what you feel has been given to you. We are called to test the spirits, that's precisley how it's done.. The Word will speak.. let it.

God wants to hone this gift that He has given you so that you may have unwavering confidence when He speaks to you or through you. We are cheering you on because you are on the right track..

Don't dismiss it please. And please don't apologize for the prophetic.. it is sometimes a word through an ordinary person like you or I that God chooses to deliver through, albeit at times with fear and trepidation.

I'm glad that you seem to accept what I had to say because I wondered if I was too harsh.

May God Bless and please keep typing, ok?! Thanks.

Much Love in Christ,

Wanda aka Sweet~Lady

"Nuf said" and certainly not harsh at all...

Thanks again...

[sweet~lady]

well.. i'm back.. where are you..

I have to say at the outset that this wouldn't leave me alone either..

God wants me to share but I'm not going ohh goodie Lord..

so hang on I'm getting some thoughts together ok..

and THAT is of major consequence to a blonde with added senior moments

[sweet~lady]

Two verses of Scripture from The Message Bible..

Ex.17.7 -""He (Moses) named the place Massah (Testing-Place) and Meribah (Quarreling) because of the quarreling of the Israelites and because of their testing of God when they said, "Is God here with us or not?"

Ps.81.7 - "I (God) took the world off your shoulders, freed you from a life of hard labour. You called to me in your pain; I got you out of a bad place. I answered you from where the thunder hides, I proved you at Meribah Fountain."

ok lets do KJV which makes more sense to me..

Ex.17.7 - KJV - "And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted The lord, saying, Is The Lord among us, or not?"

Ps.81.7 - KJV -"Thou calledst Me in trouble, and I delivered thee; I answered thee in the secret place of thunder: I proved thee at the waters of Meribah."

see next ..

[sweet~lady]

I am, at a personal level, at the waters of Meribah in my own life. I have not questioned whether God is here or not. My testing place comes in the form of WHEN are you ever going to do the work that You have clearly promised in Your Word Lord?! To me personally and for my situation.

THAT is my proving ground and once I stop murmuring and repent of my unbelief then I can enter into that place of rest which is a sure place of promise.

Ok so without bogging you with details, my point is that this word initially given to you brother has definitely been a word for me on a more personal level than I was willing to share. At first I kind of resented it even though it gave me much HOPE!

so now you tell me.. brother campsart..does God lie, does He play games.. or is He actually using you to point a very disheartened believer back to His Word and back to the wrestling mat in prayer?!

Sounds extremely prophetic to me. And btw, God has your number, you are not going to get out from under it ...lol.

It, meaning the prophetic mantle.

So tell me pls, you must feel very relieved to see this post that I was hanging back on. God has my number too..

He would not leave me alone until I shared this.

( and btw for those of you that don't believe just keep the duct tape handy ok. thanks.)

[sweet~lady]

[dcampsart]

I am, at a personal level, at the waters of Meribah in my own life. I have not questioned whether God is here or not. My testing place comes in the form of WHEN are you ever going to do the work that You have clearly promised in Your Word Lord?! To me personally and for my situation.

THAT is my proving ground and once I stop murmuring and repent of my unbelief then I can enter into that place of rest which is a sure place of promise.

Ok so without bogging you with details, my point is that this word initially given to you brother has definitely been a word for me on a more personal level than I was willing to share. At first I kind of resented it even though it gave me much HOPE!

so now you tell me.. brother campsart..does God lie, does He play games.. or is He actually using you to point a very disheartened believer back to His Word and back to the wrestling mat in prayer?!

Sounds extremely prophetic to me. And btw, God has your number, you are not going to get out from under it ...lol.

It, meaning the prophetic mantle.

So tell me pls, you must feel very relieved to see this post that I was hanging back on. God has my number too..

He would not leave me alone until I shared this.

( and btw for those of you that don't believe just keep the duct tape handy ok. thanks.)

Boy sweet~lady... I haven't been back to this thread because I thought it may have died. I guess I shouldn't apologize too much about posting something like this because it seems a couple of people have received a blessing from it. I too have come to learn to wait... just wait on the Lord and rest. I know he's been dealing with me about the slightest complaints coming out of my mouth. It really is a discipline but it can be learned. If God has my number, I don't want to get out of it but I do want to be careful.

I am relieved to read your reply and I thank you very much sister. God bless you...

[sweet~lady]

ok so I don't have enough wind for the shofar obviously..

but I think what this thread needs now is an icon for pulling hen's teeth

~totally kidding !!!!!!!!!!!!~

[sweet~lady]

I am, at a personal level, at the waters of Meribah in my own life. I have not questioned whether God is here or not. My testing place comes in the form of WHEN are you ever going to do the work that You have clearly promised in Your Word Lord?! To me personally and for my situation.

THAT is my proving ground and once I stop murmuring and repent of my unbelief then I can enter into that place of rest which is a sure place of promise.

Ok so without bogging you with details, my point is that this word initially given to you brother has definitely been a word for me on a more personal level than I was willing to share. At first I kind of resented it even though it gave me much HOPE!

so now you tell me.. brother campsart..does God lie, does He play games.. or is He actually using you to point a very disheartened believer back to His Word and back to the wrestling mat in prayer?!

Sounds extremely prophetic to me. And btw, God has your number, you are not going to get out from under it ...lol.

It, meaning the prophetic mantle.

So tell me pls, you must feel very relieved to see this post that I was hanging back on. God has my number too..

He would not leave me alone until I shared this.

( and btw for those of you that don't believe just keep the duct tape handy ok. thanks.)

Boy sweet~lady... I haven't been back to this thread because I thought it may have died. I guess I shouldn't apologize too much about posting something like this because it seems a couple of people have received a blessing from it. I too have come to learn to wait... just wait on the Lord and rest. I know he's been dealing with me about the slightest complaints coming out of my mouth. It really is a discipline but it can be learned. If God has my number, I don't want to get out of it but I do want to be careful.

I am relieved to read your reply and I thank you very much sister. God bless you...

oops, somehow I didn't see this when I posted the one about hen's teeth..

Thankyou for responding, I thought I was going deaf *wink* haha

Seriously though, I am very glad to know that you are exercising caution.. very wise brother, very wise indeed. And you are more than welcome!

God is in it !

I will be back.. blessings on all that read this ..

[dcampsart]

Another commentary along the lines of my OP I found from doing a search along these lines.

WORSHIP AS A PEOPLE GATHERED

By Doug Goins

A hymn reflecting God's closeness

This brings us to the second hymn of response in verse 7. The first hymn focuses on God's transcendence, his greatness as creator, but this is different. Now it says he is our God:

For he is our God,

and we are the people of his pasture,

and the sheep of his hand.

There is a shift here from God as a distant, supreme creator to God as our personal savior and redeemer. God's closeness to us is described in terms of his being a loving shepherd. He is our God who pastures us, who pays close attention to us personally. A shepherd knows each sheep individually, and therefore knows each one's needs. Our response here is to be one of grateful humility. God has lovingly pursued us although we are like stubborn, stupid, lost sheep. The Bible tells us God went looking for us, he found us, and he saved us. Isaiah 53:6 says, "All we like sheep have gone astray." We know our shepherd God through intimate, personal relationship as a savior.

In the book Surprised by Joy, C.S. Lewis tells of his conversion from agnosticism to living Christian faith. Lewis says he finally came to the point that he could accept verse 6 of the psalm, that God was creator. But he struggled to move to verse 7, to believe that God is an intimate God who cared about him personally.

Our response in verse 7 is prayerful gratitude. It is still in the context of being together as God's people, like a flock of sheep. From the tiniest baby lamb to the oldest ram or ewe, we have group identity. We worship together as a redeemed people, and our gratitude unites us in worship. What connects us is not our personal taste in music, aesthetic sensitivity, cultural distinctives, or the comfort zone of common age. We all celebrate God as our king, our savior, and our shepherd. The overriding awareness we are to have of the people with whom we gather for worship is that we are all his joyful, submissive people. Each of us is a sheep desperately in need of shepherding. That is our identity as worshipers. We are all sheep together. (I believe this whole paragraph speaks of everyone here at WCF!)

The mood changes again in verse 8, from songs of worship to a sermon. We listen to the word of God together, and here the sermon is a warning against disobedience. Before God begins speaking in verse 8, however, David challenges us to pay attention. The last phrase in verse 7 says:

O that today you would hearken to his voice!

In The Message Eugene Peterson paraphrases it, "Drop everything and listen, listen as he speaks: "Don't turn a deaf ear...." This exemplifies the immediacy of worship, the "now" of worship. The psalmist exhorts Israel at the Feast of Tabernacles, as well as us today, to listen carefully to what God says next. What follows in the text is essentially Biblical exposition of Exodus 17 and Numbers 20.

In one sense, worship is paying attention to what God wants to say to us. We are to listen to his voice, especially through the Scriptures. That old-fashioned word hearken means to listen to somebody with the intention of doing something about it. It means that worship ought to change us. Our call is to let the Scriptures correct us however it desires: our belief systems, our attitudes, our reactions to circumstances.

Remember Meribah and Massah

God preaches a three-point sermon in verses 8 through 11. Verses 8 and 9 challenge us to pay attention to history, what happened at Meribah and Massah.

Harden not your hearts, as at Meribah,

as on the day at Massah in the wilderness,

when your fathers tested me,

and put me to the proof, though

they had seen my work.

We are commanded not to come hardened. Hardening is the exact opposite of hearkening. It is not hearing or paying attention to God. These historical examples of Israel hardening their hearts against God's word would speak powerfully into the annual festival of the Feast of Tabernacles. It would counter the temptation to romanticize the wilderness experience.

Exodus 17 tells of an early crisis the people encountered right after deliverance through the Red Sea, before arriving at Mount Sinai. When they came to a place called Rephidim, they complained to Moses because there was no water they could see. They said to Moses, "Give us water to drink'. Why did you bring us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?" (17:2, 3). When Moses prayed, God told him to strike a rock, and miraculously, water gushed out of it. But because the people were so demanding, Moses gave the place two names at Rephidim. First is the name Meribah, which means blaming, disputing or quarreling. He also named it Massah, which means testing or tempting.

Later, at Mount Sinai, during the giving of the Law, Moses preached to the people, "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test as you tested him at Massah at Rephidim" (Deuteronomy 6:16). Sadly, forty years later, the Numbers 20 account tells us that a similar crisis occurs at Kadesh. Despite all of God's provision--the waters at Rephidim, quail and manna for food, guidance of the cloud by day and the fire at night, protection from enemies--the people complained to Moses about the lack of water again. God responded graciously and mercifully, because salvation is by grace; but the people are judged by him. He judged them for having hard hearts, for being forgetful, stubborn, angry, and unbelieving. So Moses named the place Meribah Kadesh to distinguish it from Meribah at Rephidim. It served as a witness that both times, forty years apart, the people were demanding and tried to coerce God into satisfying their wants.

It is not presumptuous to ask God for help, and he does not admonish us for that. What he judges is disbelief'--when we murmur, when we complain about our circumstances. Like Israel in the wilderness, our grumbling proves our forgetfulness and stubbornness towards God's faithfulness. In the gospels, Jesus expressed similar concerns about his disciples. After Jesus fed the five thousand, he walked on the Sea of Galilee, and then calmed the storm. The gospel of Mark says the disciples did not understand the miracles. In language similar to Psalm 95, it says the disciples did not understand what Jesus did because their "hearts were hardened" (6:52). Matthew's gospel says that Jesus responded to one of his disciples, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?" (Matthew 14:31).

Understand how we can provoke God

Thus, the first challenge in the sermon is to remember the lessons of salvation history, specifically the lessons in the wilderness. The second challenge in verse 10 is to understand how we can frustrate and provoke our loving shepherd. God says,

For forty years I loathed that generation

and said, "They are a people who err in heart,

and they do not regard my ways."

What happened at Meribah was indicative of forty years of hardened hearts. Israel represents two sinful patterns that provoke God's grief and angry disgust. What is striking in these stories is how lovingly patient God is with willful, forgetful people. After forty years of patience he continued to call, "O that today you would just hearken to my voice." Over and over God made that call in the face of their erring hearts. NIV translates the phrase, "They are a people whose hearts go astray,'" Eugene Peterson puts it in a question form: "Can't they keep their minds on God for five minutes?"1 In New Testament language, using the apostle Paul's word in Colossians 3, their minds'--or their affections--were set upon the things on earth.

How did this express itself in the behavior of the Israelites? First, they wanted to return to what they remembered as the good life in Egypt. God called the nation Israel to follow his leading and to walk by faith to the promised land, but when the wilderness experience was difficult they romanticized the quality of life they enjoyed in the Nile Valley. They wanted to go back to where the diet was better, the climate was better, and life was predictable. The second problem is in verse 10, "they do not regard my ways." NIV translates it, "...they have not known my ways." Peterson paraphrases it with another question: "Do they simple refuse to walk down my road?"2 God had met all their needs in the wilderness and protected them from the attack of enemies. He had clearly communicated his loving expectations for them at Sinai. But they chose not to trust him, and wanted to live on their own terms.

There is a logical progression in these sinful patterns. Setting our hearts on earthly things, which is demanding to walk by sight and not faith, will result in acts of rebellion. We will make conscious choices to go our own way and to make up our own rules. In the New Testament the apostle Paul talks about a man named Demas who had been an important part of the ministry. They had traveled and done the work of the gospel together. However, at the end of his life, Paul writes to Timothy, and says, " For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica'" (2 Timothy 4:10). Demas did not learn from the history of Israel in the wilderness, and his legacy in Scripture is infamous along with an unbelieving generation of Israelites who died before reaching the promised land.

Understand that we can enter into "Sabbath rest"

The last verse of Psalm 95 seems like a blunt way to end a worship and praise psalm. It is as if David wants to sacrifice literary grace for moral urgency. God says,

Therefore I swore in my anger

that they should not enter my rest.

Does the idea of an angry God bother you? In Numbers 14:21-23, Moses argues with God and begs him to show mercy towards his rebellious, hard-hearted people. God says, "...but truly, as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD, none of the men who have seen my glory and my signs which I wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have put me to the proof these ten times and have not hearkened to my voice, shall see the land which I swore to give to their fathers; and none of those who despised me shall see it."

Clearly, murmuring, complaining, and disbelieving is despising God. When I do those things, however, I do not view myself that way. I don't despise God, I just don't like the way things are going in my life. But from God's perspective, it is despising who he is because of the things he is allowing in my life. From that perspective, God's anger is understandable.

Even Moses suffers because of his hardened heart towards God. At Kadesh, he struck the rock out of anger, not faith. As a result, he did not enter the promised land, along with an entire generation, except for Joshua and Caleb. The people received the water they demanded from God, but they lost the greater blessing of entering "my rest," the land of Canaan. Parenthetically, it is important to be clear that not everybody is eternally lost who dies in the wilderness. They do not all die as non-believers. There were believers in that generation--like Moses, Aaron and Miriam