Seven Major Prophetic Signs Of The Second Coming

[givennewname]

Ok - sorry, I missed that.

So that means Nebuchandnezzer's city should have been called "New Babylon", huh?

More to the point, it means King N.'s Babylon doesn't play a role in biblical prophecy at all. See what happens when you make an assumption? An entire doctrine built on faulty data because someone forgot to check their facts.

So, you are the only one in the world that caught this "forgetting to check their facts?" An "entire" doctrine, huh? Is this a new doctrine?

Or has it been around for quite a while and only you have it correctly?

Not at all; I wouldn't presume.

So.....who else espouses what you are? Your "doctrine?" You seem to be isolated in your belief.

Actually, I had to research it. The facts are out there for anyone who cares to look. I suggest you do so.

Yet there are a multitude of Biblical scholars who have never found what you are presenting. How come you are the only one to whom the Holy Spirit has revealed this "doctrine." Or do you belong to a congregation who believe as you do?

I agree man. If there are documented evidence please quote it...

Start with the Taylor prism, an artifact which describes Sennacheribs' account of the conquest of Babylon as well as the dating of the conquest. You can find the image and translation online. Continue w/Wolfram von Soden's "The Ancient Orient: An Introduction to the Study of the Ancient Near East." Check also the account of Herodotus, volume 2, section 141, which gives the account of the battle with Judah. That battle took place at the end of the campaign which started with the destruction of Babylon. Sennacherib overran forty-six citie s of Judah. The account in 2 Kings 18-19 only details the final attack on Jerusalem.

Suggest you read again the translation of the Taylor Prism which BTW is a boastful account of Sennacherib on his military exploits. He records of a victory in a battle again Merodach Baladan the King of Babylon. No where did he boast that the city of babylon was leveled and desserted. We see in thse verses that the King who is supposed to have been defeated still alive and well.

Isa 39:1 At that time Merodach-baladan the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah; for he heard that he had been sick, and was recovered.

Isa 39:2 And Hezekiah was glad of them, and showed them the house of his precious things, the silver, and the gold, and the spices, and the precious oil, and all the house of his armor, and all that was found in his treasures: there was nothing in his house, nor in all his dominion, that Hezekiah showed them not.

Isa 39:3 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country unto me, even from Babylon.

Isa 39:4 Then said he, What have they seen in thy house? And Hezekiah answered, All that is in my house have they seen: there is nothing among my treasures that I have not showed them.

Isa 39:5 Then said Isaiah to Hezekiah, Hear the word of Jehovah of hosts:

Isa 39:6 Behold, the days are coming, when all that is in thy house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store until this day, shall be carried to Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith Jehovah.

Isa 39:7 And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, whom thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.

Isa 39:8 Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of Jehovah which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

We do not disagree that babylon had sucessive dynasties that were involved in wars but these do not fit the destruction of Babylon as predicted in Isaiah and Jeremiah by any stretch of the imagination.

[givennewname]

Ok - sorry, I missed that.

So that means Nebuchandnezzer's city should have been called "New Babylon", huh?

More to the point, it means King N.'s Babylon doesn't play a role in biblical prophecy at all. See what happens when you make an assumption? An entire doctrine built on faulty data because someone forgot to check their facts.

So, you are the only one in the world that caught this "forgetting to check their facts?" An "entire" doctrine, huh? Is this a new doctrine?

Or has it been around for quite a while and only you have it correctly?

Not at all; I wouldn't presume.

So.....who else espouses what you are? Your "doctrine?" You seem to be isolated in your belief.

Actually, I had to research it. The facts are out there for anyone who cares to look. I suggest you do so.

Yet there are a multitude of Biblical scholars who have never found what you are presenting. How come you are the only one to whom the Holy Spirit has revealed this "doctrine." Or do you belong to a congregation who believe as you do?

I agree man. If there are documented evidence please quote it...

Start with the Taylor prism, an artifact which describes Sennacheribs' account of the conquest of Babylon as well as the dating of the conquest. You can find the image and translation online. Continue w/Wolfram von Soden's "The Ancient Orient: An Introduction to the Study of the Ancient Near East." Check also the account of Herodotus, volume 2, section 141, which gives the account of the battle with Judah. That battle took place at the end of the campaign which started with the destruction of Babylon. Sennacherib overran forty-six citie s of Judah. The account in 2 Kings 18-19 only details the final attack on Jerusalem.

read the translation of the prism here:

http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism1.html

[OneLight]

Yet there are a multitude of Biblical scholars who have never found what you are presenting. How come you are the only one to whom the Holy Spirit has revealed this "doctrine." Or do you belong to a congregation who believe as you do?

Parker1, he mentioned he researched the facts. Attacking him in this manner is against the ToS. Try asking what references he could provide you so you can check it out yourself ... be a Berean!

My questions were sincere. I'm sorry if you think that I am attacking him "in this manner." Perhaps if you could point out to me exactly where my attacks are, I can be more careful not to violate the TOS in the future. Otherwise....I see no trespass.

How we write things is not always how someone will read it. By reading our words in the eye of the other readers, we may see it differently. We know what we are trying to say, but that may not be evident in how we say it. This is s tool we all should use.

To me, a reader that did not know what you were trying to say, read this as saying that Rufus thought he was special enough that the Holy Spirit would only tell him, or that he was from a group of believer that were outside what is considered solid biblical teaching.

If it were a flagrant attack, my reply would of been more direct. But I understood that I may of been reading it in the wrong light, so I suggested to ask in a different way.

God Bless,

Alan

[nebula]

Isaiah lived from 758-698 BC. Babylon was destroyed in 689 BC. Nebuchednezzar was born in 630 BC and came to power in 605 BC. Those are statements of fact. How do you figure Babylon had been destroyed before Isaiah and Jeremiah?

What are the dates for Jeremiah?

Jeremiah was born in 641 BC. There is not a record of his death. One historian writes that he was murdered in Egypt c.551 BC, another that he died in Nebuchednezzar's Babylon around the same date.

OK, so in the case of Jeremiah, whatever he said about Babylon was Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, wouldn't it be?

[nebula]

Rufus -

I am challenging you on this because the dots aren't connecting for me.

Jer. 50

39 "So desert creatures and hyenas will live there, and there the owl will dwell. It will never again be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation.

40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah along with their neighboring towns," declares the Lord, "so no one will live there; no man will dwell in it.

This matches the prophecy in Isaiah 13:20.

Now in looking through Isaiah, prophecies are given of Babylon's destruction before and after the attack from Sennacherib (Isaiah 38,39). Interestingly, Hezekiah's illness and visit from the Babylonian envoys came right after this attack from Sennacherib. In all of this, there is no indication that Babylon had just been destroyed.

And if Babylon had been brought to ruin via Sennecherib, why would Isaiah prophecy of Babylon's destruction again in chapters 46 and 47?

Like I said, the dots you have presented just are not connecting for me.

[nebula]

Look, Rufus - I'm not trying ot push any conclusions, OK?

I simply want to understand what is historic, what is going on with the prophecies, and what is going on now.

Now there has been a rebuilding project of Babylon in Iraq. You can call it whatever Babylon you wish it to be, but it is still considered the ruins of Babylon. And Saddam did build a palace there.

I don't care how you interpret everything, but those are facts.

[givennewname]

Look, Rufus - I'm not trying ot push any conclusions, OK?

I simply want to understand what is historic, what is going on with the prophecies, and what is going on now.

Now there has been a rebuilding project of Babylon in Iraq. You can call it whatever Babylon you wish it to be, but it is still considered the ruins of Babylon. And Saddam did build a palace there.

I don't care how you interpret everything, but those are facts.

True, Saddam Hussein claimed to be rebuilding Babylon and restoring it to its former glory and yes, there has been some construction done in that area. However, God said, through the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah that it would never be re-inhabited. The question for you and I then becomes, who are you going to believe? Almighty God or an insane despot who is now dead? The reconstruction project is not a fulfillment of prophecy, it is an act of defiance. How far along the project gets and how it is going to play out remains for us to see; God already knows.

Read the words, Babylon has never been destoyed. Not to the extent written by Isaiah nor Jeremiah. Sennacherib is an Assyrian not a Mede as written by Isaiah.

[givennewname]

Look, Rufus - I'm not trying ot push any conclusions, OK?

I simply want to understand what is historic, what is going on with the prophecies, and what is going on now.

Now there has been a rebuilding project of Babylon in Iraq. You can call it whatever Babylon you wish it to be, but it is still considered the ruins of Babylon. And Saddam did build a palace there.

I don't care how you interpret everything, but those are facts.

True, Saddam Hussein claimed to be rebuilding Babylon and restoring it to its former glory and yes, there has been some construction done in that area. However, God said, through the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah that it would never be re-inhabited. The question for you and I then becomes, who are you going to believe? Almighty God or an insane despot who is now dead? The reconstruction project is not a fulfillment of prophecy, it is an act of defiance. How far along the project gets and how it is going to play out remains for us to see; God already knows.

Read the words, Babylon has never been destoyed. Not to the extent written by Isaiah nor Jeremiah. Sennacherib is an Assyrian not a Mede as written by Isaiah.

The original city of Babylon was destroyed by Sennacherib in 689 BC after the revolt of Mushezib-Marduk. Nebuchednezzar built his city of Babylon in 605 BC.The second city fell to the Medo-Persian king Cyrus in 539 BC and flourished briefly but by 275 BC the city had been abandoned and was in ruins. It has never been rebuilt, QED.

Those are statements of verifiable fact. God said through his prophets that Babylon would be destroyed and would remain uninhabited. Such has been the case.

Part of the confusion may lie in the fact that the prophets often spoke in poetic verbiage yet those of a charismatic/pentecostal bent insist on reading everything literally. Think of it as trying to read song lyrics the same way as a legal document, without ever hearing the music. It doesn't work and the resulting misunderstanding may just be misleading. The question to ask of the text at this juncture is, "What is the point?"

Dear Brother,

Non of what is quoted above fits the prophesy of Isaiah nor Jeramiah.

The original city of Babylon was destroyed by Sennacherib in 689 BC after the revolt of Mushezib-Marduk. Nebuchednezzar built his city of Babylon in 605 BC.The second city fell to the Medo-Persian king Cyrus in 539 BC and flourished briefly but by 275 BC the city had been abandoned and was in ruins. It has never been rebuilt, QED.

The original city of Babylon was destroyed by Sennacherib in 689 BC after the revolt of Mushezib-Marduk. Nebuchednezzar built his city of Babylon in 605 BC.The second city fell to the Medo-Persian king Cyrus in 539 BC.....

Isa 13:16 Their infants also shall be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be rifled, and their wives ravished.

Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, who shall not regard silver, and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

Isa 13:18 And their bows shall dash the young men in pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isa 13:20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall shepherds make their flocks to lie down there.

1) Neither Sennacherib nor Cyrus did what Isaiah prophesied. Sennacherib is not a Mede neither is Cyrus (Persian). Any way if Nebuchadnessar rebuilt the city, then Sennacherib's destruction of the city does not fit the prophesy as the prophecy says that the city shall be desolate for generations.

2) We don't see Babylon left as Sodom and Gomorrah which is completely decimated after God Judges it. Can't even find any traces of Sodom and Gomorrah after the Judgement. God says Babylon will be like that. Babylon contined to thrive after the attack of Sennachrib and Cyrus, in fact Babylon thrived after the Persian attack.

3) God says that Babylon will not be rebuilt. Wne he says it, no man not even Saddam Hussein can nullify that prophesy. Who is Saddam Hussien to defy God?

Don't try to fit prophesy to your preconcieved ideas. If yr interpretation of the above prophesy is met by Sennacherib or Cyrus's invasion, then God's Prophecy is no better in accuracy than false prediction by Nostradamus or other false prophecy. Abandon that interpretation because Babylon exist right up to end timesand yr interpretation is full of holes.

Edited February 6, 2009 by givennewname

[givennewname]

Dear Brother,

Non of what is quoted above fits the prophesy of Isaiah nor Jeramiah.

Correction: the fulfillment of the prophesies of Isaiah and Jeremiah do not conform to your idea of how things ought to have played out. Nevertheless, the cities called Babylon were destroyed along with the political entities that resided in them. God gave the prophecy;the details of how He chooses to fulfill it is up to Him.

The question to ask of each text, especially each prophetic oracle, is "What is the point of this passage?" Be aware, too, that the prophets spoke and wrote poetically. Not to read them that way is dangerously naive and foolish. The prophets wrote mostly in three different types of oracle - the woe, the lawsuit and the promise. Isaiah 13 is an example of the "Woe" style.

*edited for redundancy

Wehn Jesus says that the word of God will last forever and that not an iota nor a jot will be changed, and all of it will be fullfilled-literally. Changing the word "Mede" to Persian or Assyrian and allowing just a few of Saddam's constructed palaces to defy the written words of prophesy to fit your interpretation of fulfilled prophesy in the name of poetic licence is still changing scipture to fit yr prophetic interpretation. Anyways Babylon is still spoken of in Revelation, which means whatever version of Babylon that you care to call it still exist until end times. It means that Babylon will be rebuilt and destroyed again as said in the Book of Revelation. No matter how long we have to wait for the Word of God to come to pass, God says to wait for the appointed time of prophesy as said in the book of Habbakuk.

What is the point of this passage?"

The point is that the Godless city of Babylon who relects the Godless political system of the word, the false system of worship of idols and the pride of human acheivement and the political word of empire expansion through violence will surely not escape the judgement of God and will be destroyed by God himself. Whether it is prophesied by Isaiah, Jeremiah or John who wrote Revelations. So far i still see the political system of false worship of false Gods and worldly gods still with us. So how could Babylon be already destroyed? If it is, another so called babylon will still be rebuilt.

[nebula]

Thanks, Given -

This is what has been puzzling me.