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Eccl, I regret to say I must step away from this discussion. You are determined make an arguement that is not possible with Scripture. Unless you get the answer you want, no answer will satisfy you, despite what Scripture says. You are splitting hairs with your terminlogy. That which Jesus purchased for us by His death was indeed salvation. I hope you come to term with that quickly for I fear you are on a very dangerous road. Praying for you, Tin

I know this may be a hard one to understand but the gift that Jesus gave was not salvation! The gift that He gave ALLOWS each and everyone of us the chance at salvation! Now that He has given us the means or way to salvation it is up to us to do what is needed to obtain it. . Ok, I must note that I strongly disagree withh your statement, Eccl. If we do not have a guarentte of salvation in the finished work of Jesus Christ, then I must echo the words of Paul in 1 Cor 15:19, If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. If only get into Heaven by a roll of divine dice, then what is the point of God telling us to live righteously? It would be of no benefit. No, Christ did not die to leave it to chance that we make Heaven. He died once for all to open the doors for all to come freely as they trust in Him for salvation. I point to these verses in John; 1:12, 3:3, 3:16-18, 5:24. In each one, Jesus makes it clear. It is not chance. The only thing we have to do to receive this salvation is accept it. Candice, I apologize that I jumped in on your conversation with Eccl, but I felt a need to address it. Please forgive me if I offended.

We seem to have a confusion on what faith really is, and how it works..... Lets take a look at one of my favorite chapters on faith, Hebrews 11. Notice the pattern, they By faith, then did some work or deed. The work or deed was done from, and by faith. It was not done one its own, It came from the faith, Faith as it were is a well that we can draw the good works from. You see we are justified by faith first. THEN the works come. You see if you do not have faith, and your works will be empty, have no life, be dry. If you have faith but do not do anything with it, its not really faith, its only belief and easily turned to unbelief by the merest whim or even the thought of putting any action to the faith. So if you have faith, you are justified. Being Justified, you will as a byproduct do good works, as God is making you a new creature. As you are a new creature your very behavior will show the change from old to new. You see its not just the faith but the life change that Christ works as you let him.