OneAccord

This was a very beautiful post on forgiveness, arunangelo, thank yo for taking the itme to type it. I agree that forgiveness is all or nothing, just like Jesus demonstrated on the Cross. To forgive is to set someone free, may we continue to break the chains that hold each other in bondage. Forgiveness is the ultimate act of love.

I guess Christian love is not a very popular topic these days. Sigh.

How do you deal with the funeral of someone you loved who you know was not saved? How do you comfort the family?

"The Measure of Maturity" It has been my experience that too many of us, as Christians, have been confused about love. We have assumed that attaining the look of love was the same reality as actually being transformed into a loving person. I'm not saying that we have consciously planned on being shallow or noncommittal, but that somehow we have settled on the cosmetic instead of the real. We have developed an "altar" ego, a look for church that lasts, at best, just a few minutes longer than the church service itself. All we have really accomplished is to perfect the art of acting like Christians. I think we have yet to learn to consistently walk according to the standards of Christ's love. I hear how quick some are to speak about the flaws of those they supposedly love, and I wonder, what kind of love demeans an individual behind their back? When I witness unloving words from a Christian's mouth, I am reminded that we have much to learn about Jesus and what it means to follow Him. David prayed, "Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer" (Psalm 19:14). Our words are the by-product of our meditations. Whatever is brooding in our hearts will eventually ascend to our lips. If we have unforgiveness prowling within, our conversations will be barbed with negative comments; even in moments of light-hearted banter, if we are harboring bitterness, it will slice through our speech. Jesus taught that "the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart" (Matthew 12:34). We cannot fix our words without first fixing our hearts. When the Lord judges us for our words, it is because He is seeking to purify our hearts. True, the heart is deceitful above all things and it is difficult to know our own iniquity. Yet if we simply pause and listen to how many of our words are without love, we can track them back to the real problem: loveless hearts. A New Anointing Christians are in the fire of God. The Holy Spirit is purging the church from negative chatter. A fresh anointing is at hand where God's people shall speak with the character necessary to represent Him. What the Lord told the prophet Jeremiah He is speaking also to us: "Therefore, thus says the LORD, 'If you return, then I will restore you -- before Me you will stand; and if you extract the precious from the worthless, You will become My spokesman.'" Jeremiah 15:19 Let us pray that as God exposes our lack of love, a time will soon come when we will pray with credibility: "You have tried my heart; You have visited me by night; You have tested me and You find nothing; I have purposed that my mouth will not transgress" (Psalm 17:3). Do we see this? God judges the quality of our entire lives by the soundness and substance of our words. Thus Jesus warned, "But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment" (Matthew 12:36). Let us consider Christ's warning soberly. He continued, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37). James adds, "Judgment will be merciless to him who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). I have a holy fear in my heart concerning these warnings. I know that if I am merciless toward others, God will be merciless toward me. Character Counts Sometimes I think we try to mask our critical attitude by calling it "discernment." The fact is, most of what manifests in our discussions about others is simply judging after the flesh. If we truly love an individual, we will be as loving in their absence as we are in their presence. Jesus said His disciples would be known by their love. Paul said that the love of Christ is supposed to control us, which means it is the nature and discipline of love that keeps us from joining in verbal attacks or even subtle criticisms. You see, it takes character to avoid being sucked into gossip and criticisms. There is a high road we can take. It starts with prayer, it extends to grace, it is slow to speak, it approaches an individual with a meek heart, it talks privately with the person; it is forgiving when wronged and patient with the spiritually immature. Of course, if someone is involved with criminal activity or seriously endangering others through their sin, we must love the greater community and take steps to protect the innocent. There is a time to discipline or even publicly expose sin (Matthew 18:15-17), but it's after we exhaust other means of correction -- and even then, our motive should communicate our hope of redemption and not allow our disclosure to become a smokescreen for revenge. In all things, love must guide our words. Child's Eye-View of Love Recently my youngest daughter, Eden, sent me a list of quotes that came from little children. Each child was asked to describe what love meant to them. Their answers were, at times, quite intriguing. One in particular, from a four year old boy named Billy, has stuck with me. He said, "When someone loves you, the way they say your name is different. You just know that your name is safe in their mouth." That thought seems to say it all: "When someone loves you . . . your name is safe in their mouth." Behold this clarity of vision as love is defined by a little child. When we truly walk in Christ's love, those around us will be safe -- and others will see the love of Christ that controls us. Beloved, to walk in covering love is to show ourselves truly acquainted with Christ. Let us ask God, "Father, show me my heart. Is Your love ruling, even in the unseen areas of my life? Are the names of others safe in my mouth?" by Francis Frangipane

Separated means: 4. A Separated Church -- separated ecclesiastically from apostate groups such the World Council, the National Council, New Evangelicalism, etc. and separated personally, using the great principles of the Bible for a dedicated Christian life. (Don't worry, yod, it's a clean post )

Here's a blurb on New Evangelism (basically it is evangelizing for the sake of numbers and growth in the church rather tahn a committed discipling of new members & conforming to the culture being witnessed to, marketing schemes as witnessing tools rather than just the plain truth of the gospel, etc.) Two False Assumptions of New Evangelism Our deathly evangelism will work hard to avoid assuming what most of the new evangelism assumes. The latter assumes two things at its heart that are mistaken: (1) It is good for the church to conform to the culture in which it finds itself, and (2) It is good for the church to keep track of its health in terms of numerical growth. Regarding the assumption of cultural conformity, this mistake is made in the name of effectiveness. Interior decorating, dress, verbal expressions and music are increasingly controlled by this cultural conformity. With it the church begins to look more and more like the culture in which it lives. But this is wrong. Rather than conformity to our regnant culture, the church is to bring instead a culture that is new and different and "not of this world" (John 18:36). Therefore Christians are not to be "of the world," just as their Lord is not "of the world" (John 17:16). As such the church promotes the saying: "Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect" (Romans 12:2). Being preoccupied with tailoring the message of the church to the current cultural idiom is therefore wrong. If the Gospel is the Word of God... then the "content" of the Gospel simply is itself the "language" of the Gospel. While this does not mean that we merely mimic the language of the Bible, it does mean that our interpretation and proclamation is positively determined and structured by the linguistic logic of the Bible and not by any set of pre-determined "characteristics of culture." Such pre-determination stifles the free course of the Word of God, rather than setting it loose in the world. [so] the planting of the church in the 1990s is no different from the planting of the church in A.D. 90. The church is planted as the seed of the alien Word of God who comes to us and our world from outside of us and in radical otherness from all our expectations, to tear down the securities we have built for ourselves (that are death to us) and raise up on their rubble the new walls of the heavenly Jerusalem (which is life to us). And regarding the second assumption about numerical growth, this mistake is made in the name of dedication. Hard work, keeping busy, showing concern, caring about people, and wanting to share what is good all undergird the importance of numerical growth. But this is mixed up. Our work must address the change of a human heart rather than more and more people enjoying one another through a shared membership. Indeed it is so that "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine religious persons who need no repentance" (Luke 15:7). Therefore, "Growth" is never the business of the church. Faithfulness, truthfulness, and discipleship in the public presentation of Christ to the world--that's the business of the church. Worries about "growth" are left to the will and work of the Holy Spirit.

Tree-huggers can be Christians too!!!!

If you never had the chance to know Jesus will you go to hell? Anyone??????????????????????? No, you would not. Our God is a loving God and a merciful God, His mercy endures forever.

Tents? Do you mean prison camps???? Didn't know they were using them.

I guess with this logic, God doesn't really want to save my daughter, otherwise having a women scream at her that she's going to hell would have saved her for sure.

I think maybe they are practicing for something. But maybe that's a conspriacy theory?

I think this is an interesting question. I never thought about it before, although I love this verse. It also says elsewhere that the disciples were given the power to bind and loose, they were given "authority" to trample on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy. It says they were given the ability to forgive sins. Later in Acts, post ascension, they were able to heal the sick, help the lame to walk, even raising some from the dead. Whose to say they didn't also have the ability to call down fire from heaven? We know that Jesus had legions of angels at His beck and call, perhaps the disciples were given access to this heavenly host as well, but they had to do a bit of maturing and gain more understanding of the nature of the kingdom before they could use it responsibly. As it says, He came to save not destroy, and that was their commission as well.

All is vanity vanity vanity under the sun. Vanity vanity vanity, all is vanity. Could you give an example of what some of these good works might look like? What kind of example do you think the unbelievers need to see to be convinced of the faith? I need some pratical examples of what we are supposed to be doing while we're waiting for the apocolypse. All is vanity. What does God command us? What is the role of the Christian in the world? I realize the world is evil and doomed, but what are we supposed to be doing? I understand what we are supposed to be believing, but what are we supposed to be doing????

What are they going to do with them all? Our prisons are already so overcrowded. I'm glad they got the murderers, rapists and sex offenders off the street, but what did the other 9000 do?

Man, this is a pretty scary God!!!!! I thought the gospel was supposed to be the Good News! This sounds like very Bad News indeed!

I think it's pretty hard to get someone saved by the threat of wrath and judgement. Most people are hurting and suffering and need to hear about God's love, mercy and compassion and not be threatened with hell. Most unbelieving folks don't feel drawn to worship a God that would burn them forever and ever. As for the balance between the love and the wrath, I think it's easier to accept God's stern but loving chastisement after you have been saved and desparately want to please Him and begin to hunger and thirst after righteousness. Love conquers all, love covers a mulititude of sin. You can't over-emphasize God's love too much (as someone said you could earlier in this thread) because God IS love. Paul preached far more on God's love than on His wrath. We should do the same. We should be sensitive to who we witness to, and not wound them more with threats and ultimatums. This can get downright abusive. My daughter was hurt severely by a woman screaming at her that she was going to hell. I can't stand it when people preach like that to the hurting multitudes out there like sheep without a shepherd. It makes me sick to my stomach. I had another expereince of bringing a group of friends to church, which was a HUGE deal to even get them through the door, and the preacher preached on hell for the whole sermon and these folks never looked back. I was furious at the preacher for that sermon and never invite people to church anymore for that reason.

I read the Bible in a year three times, but am finding that reading three chapters at once is too much for me anymore, I need to take it in much smaller bites, so now I am doing the New Testament in a year. REading smaller portions allows more time to meditate on what you read. Sometimes I take one verse and think on it for a week, word by word. It's amazing how much revelation is packed into one verse. Something I have learned about the Bible is that anywhere you enter in is the right place to be. Every single verse can magnify into universal truths, even a single word can do this. Everywhere I go in the Bible leads me to God and His master plan. It's pretty awesome.

VisionLife That was a very beautiful post! You have blessed me today! We need more christians out there like you! I have a rebellious teenage daughter who I have been trying to love with Jesus love as best as I am able. One day we went to visit a woman at a nursing home and she talked to my daughter about Jesus and she actually went to church with us that Sunday, and not only that but stood up for the altar call. Well, she confessed with her mouth but maybe not with her heart, backslid into the old behaviour very soon after. We went to visit the woman in the nursing home again and this woman started cursing her and yelling at ther that she was going to hell, very scary. My daughter turned away from anything that looks like a church and never looked back. Jesus never saved anybody by screaming at them that they are going to hell. He draws them with His beautiful love, goodness, truth and mercy. Canned speeches and a mass marketing approach to evangelism don't get it either, IMO. Acts of love and works of mercy are the ultimate witness. And while we were yet enemies He died for us.

It violates mine.

I did a deep study of this very verse a few months ago and would like to respond to this thread when I have enough time to give it a decent reply. This is a VERY important question, and key to a good study of Revelation. Here's an excerpt: Kingdom Bible Studies

I have mused about this one. In the case of Cornelius in Acts 10, in verse 2 it says that Cornelius was a devout man and one who feared God with all his household. In this case his whole household already feared God together with him, so it's not a hard leap to imagine that they believed together with him also when Peter came and spoke the word to them. Acts 16 is different because this was the Phillipian jailer. So here they are in prison, the earthquake came, the doors are all open, and the jailer is begging for salvation. Then it says: So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Then it says: 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. Did they go to the jailer's house between verse 31 & 32? In 33 it says that then "he took then the same hour of the night and washed their stripes, and immediately he and all his family were baptized." Here he had definitely brought them home. Regardless of the location and order of the events, how did Paul know that his whole household would be saved? What if one of the family members had not believed?

Romans 8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man 7:23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 2 Cor 3:6-9 a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6-9 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Paul defintely makes a distinction between the law of God and the law of sin and death. the letter, which kills and the Spirit, which gives life The ministry of death, engraved on stone and the ministry of the Spirit, engraved on our hearts The ministry of condemnation and the minsitry of righteousness I think that Colossians is right on with his posts, the problem we are having is that he failed to put forth a good definition of the Law of God as opposed to the law of sin and death which we are definitely not under. The idea of not being under law is confusing, because we need some kind of law so we know how to act, what's right and wrong, etc. I don't think he's suggesting outright lawlessness and anarchy.

The original intent of this thread was to give an outline of what a good, solid, bible-believing Christian should believe, and therefore adjust his/her worldview to accordingly. A Christian worldview, or any worldview for that matter, will definitely affect your views on politics, religion, family, morality, our origins and destinations, and pretty much everything else. Therefore it's not surprising to see the thread go all over the place. The OP list of basic beliefs is a pretty good picture of mainstream fundamentalist Christian beliefs, but there are infinite variations on these beliefs among those that love and serve Jesus, therefore there are infinite worldviews. Therefore we argue and disagree and have long juicy discussions about everything under the sun, but in the end we do all believe in and love Jesus, and that's what counts.

My concern is that the Religious Right is becoming a political entity and influencing a great deal of mainstream Christianity. I feel like a lot of their political agenda is not in line with Jesus' teachings, it is spreading through the pulpits of America as we saw in the recent election. Questioning the fellowship between the 'church' and the government brings some interesting reactions from American Christians who think Bush is God's gift to the world. In order to be politically correct you have to be religiously correct these days. I think the American church is fast becoming the whore that rides the beast in Revelation, and there is a lot of deception going on and it's important for people to have their eyes open so they don't partake of her sins.

You forgot to mention Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Argentina, etc, etc, etc ad infinitum