kuhugaboots

Calvinism = God Chooses Man Armenianism = Man Chooses God I say YES! both and neither and or, who cares ? some have to be called and some have to find their own way through the darkness to him and others are given! I think Samson is a good example of all of them! because who called who with him? He was given to god as a child first by his parents . So then God set the boundries for Samson life and in that act alone he calls samson maybe?.... God was hoping Samson just might avoid what was coming. but samson wasn't ever calling on god!! ..... Samson kept releasing death into his own life .. and God tried but God couldn't stop Samson death . so who called on whom? Samson broke all boundries and all the barriers one at a time.. and still somehow fulfilled his purposes and is listed with the "great men of faith"!! OF Faith!!!! Samson????... which is kind of a joke when you really think about it. someones pet might have been more faithful than Samson was 99.9 % of his life ! he was just every kind of wrong... there was nothing about his life that was faithful!!!! .. except that one last act. OH BUT WHAT A LAST ACT IT WAS Israel had peace for like 50 years after samson was faithful for one tiny moment in time.. just one tiny moment! so He overcame? well it looks like he over came once! and wasn't a coward when the rubber met the road. because he called on God just once !!!!!! it is probably a very good thing it was Samson's last act!! but he died "faithful"! I think that is the important point! it is not how you start, but how you finish that is important! so let Calvin and Arminius argue on..

No he doesn't have to "punish" us. we live in a fallen world and if we are not about "the fathers business" anymore in the world ,, if we lost our salt... He doesn't need to protect us! I think I believe, so far .. that daniel's lion that is given the heart of a man .. is us. we are about to lose our divinity.. we will be de-winged= de-divined . I read on one list about a somalian who was so full of hate at "the cowardly "american's who flew over in their planes and dropped their bombs and never saw the pain and destruction their bombs caused" it brought this verse right to mind.. Like gods in our own eyes and in the whole world's eyes.. but that will end . but we will no longer fly over our troubles and be untouched by them. yes and will be given the heart of a man. no he doesn't have to punish us or anyone .. he just has to remove his divine protection and we will be humbled. so is this us , I sure think so .. wonder what will happen? something has to happen? or we will never FEEL like the rest of mankind FEELS because up till now we have fully enjoyed his undeserved favor and divine protection! Dan 7:3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. Dan 7:4 "The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. Dan 7:5 "And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, 'Get up and eat your fill of flesh!' Dan 7:6 "After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. Dan 7:7 "After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast--terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. Dan 7:8 "While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=face+to+face&t=KJV not breath to breath? not cloud to cloud? not fire to fire? all I am saying is you assume what spirit is and is not . and I don't .. I don't KNOW because the bible doesn't say what we will or will not see when we see him "face to face"!

"People DO believe in both." don't you mean people try too believe both ? but people built a golden alter at his feet because they wanted a tame God..and a god who created all with a word or two isn't tame! you can't put a bit in his mouth! you can't serve two masters! one says death created the world ! one says LIFE did? One is a liar !

well I have come to believe that some will be "raptured" to what is hinted as Ezekiel's temple, and then I suspect things might get very interesting then. but I am sure it all isn't over until it is all over. others won't be 'raptured " and will be here to call fire from heaven and do a bit of the Father's family business!

limited knowledge and bad Assumptions based on lies and more assumptions, then 'proved' by more assumptions. very sad that most people who call themselves "christians" have as their god such a impotent god. God is not Impotent folks! I put my money on eyewitnesses and recorded history and what has already been dug up only proves eye witnesses and recorded history! They think they are smarter than eye witnesses. I mean how arrogant and ignorant can you get?

thank you! so I guess I miss spoke he has choosen manifestations!!!. and maybe even a favorite one which we are likened after. so we are created in one of his chosen" manifestations! you are playing silly word games. He calls himself by the term Elohyim it means EL's and that is ok for us to call him by that name which represents him's. fire would fall from the sky if we started calling him Baal's. We have only eyes of the temporal. we can not see spiritual ANYTHING "spiritual" ANYTHING not of mudd and clay. even if He has/had/ or will have a form we would never see it with these eyes. only in his chosen form can we see what he wants us to see! if we have eyes of the spiritual and eternal we do not know if those kinds of eyes could see something or not, because it does not tell us what we will or will not see when we look at him.. no I will not playing this game! I humbly bow to your knowledge of language! very nice! but I won't ever let you get by with these huge assumptions that there is just not enough information about to make a call. we only see through a glass lightly and you want to make a final judgment about stuff you can not know with these fallen eyes and this limited packaging and our de- evolving humanity.

. isn't this an assumption ? that is neither provable or not provable! we do not have enough information to answer that . yes the scripture is clear .. He has no body we can see.. but he has a form that represents him.. of some sort because Moses and others on the mount saw him. Abraham saw him and talked with him.. daniel saw him in his dreams. if he has a form that we can not see it in our current state that doesn't mean he is was or always will be formless.. we don't know that... but that doesn't mean he doesn't /didn't or won't ever have a form! we assume to much .. if we were in another state of being we just might see something .. but for sure not with these eyes of mud.. even if he never has had a form , of anyone or any kind or anywhere has never seen ..... he has chosen forms to present himself to this world and that is what abraham and Moses and the others saw. maybe even different ones at different times .... we can only ASSUME what he is or is not and what he always has been or will be. we do not enough information. but I got a sneaky suspicion that this means he has no earthly body that a human can see. and has nothing to do with what the "spiritual" is or isn't and what spirit is or isn't . we all assume way to much way too often . Jesus says " if you have seen me you have seen the FATHER" doesn't THIS IMPLY that there is something to see about the father ! but obviously not now and not with these eyes. that is why I say if nothing else he has a chosen image and has chosen names to be representative of him and his personality and purposes . and so who was Abraham arguing with? say when the two angels and the Lord ( the three )showed up before the destruction of Sodom and Gohmorrah? and who were these Abraham and Sarah was looking at and arguing with, and feeding dinner or tea or something to? obviously some kind of 'representation" of his person, could that maybe a be a "chosen image" like maybe he pulled it out of his hat ..( just kidding).. or maybe a shadow of his real persona.. we really don't know , there is not enough information to make a choice. so all we can do is assume and all ideas are all based in assumptions. because we can't ask all the right questions yet and prove the answers . probably won't have the answers to any these ideas and assumptions until The New Jerusalem and the father is there FACE TO FACE and has his dwelling with mankind. then we will know so you are having a problem with god being something or God being nothing? so is 0 =zero and is that something or a nothing? and this '0' is a NAME AND represents a something or nothing? then explain all of the Elohyims of other nations, unless he is just saying "Their gods"whom they deal with" so he is calling all the others God's " all sufficient being" is what you say it means right? isn't anything that 'represents something" a name? and does he make that word? and we can call him by that representative word ? He does he use that word to represent his personality, his persona. and his character and purposes? thus it is a 'name' He chose and He chose it , right? Aren't we to call him that because he chose it, and basically because called himself that?

well I look at it like this man called the golden calf " the god who delivered us" they called it Elohyim , God is complaining about it and is just ticked off at their level of seperation from reality. I mean they were building a Golden calf at his feet and gave it the same name he wants to be called by. NO I THINK WE ARE IN HIS "CHOSEN" IMAGE. HE CAN APPEAR AS ANYTHING HE WISHES! The We's can take any form. but his creation is most likely made in his preferred images, his "chosen" images , along with the tri-entity of both us and him. we and really all creation are in his/their chosen/preferred images. thus we are in the image of the El's chosen image.. .the EL"s we have chosen or the EL's who has chosen us/them.. thus our El's is the ones we deal with. just as other nations have their own chosen EL's or gods .. Elohim is his chosen/preferred NAME The El's wishes for us to deal with the El's as THEIR preferred name.. just as we are all offended when someone calls EL and ELLA. because his chosen name is EL's. then the individuals functions/ parts have chosen names too! Adonai and Yahweh and last part I believe his name is Ru-akh(sp?) or maybe Shekinah= the fire = the Heat/ the moister= the water= the breath = the wind= the Spirit and they are all the El's we are to deal with. we only have that by definition because one part came as "the Son". or we would still not understand " the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make you enemies a foot stool" we know now that "the right arm" was sent and just who that one is. and thus the El's also have a preferred Image , so is that what we are made in the likeness of? because it is too hard to prove one way or the other if they have an organic image but it is not of this world kind of image that is organic to another dimension. but it is clear and no assumptions needed that they have a chosen image which includes an arm and a head of some kind.. because the El's claim that. ok my brain does not work like anyone elses .. so does that make any sense to you? there is no way for a blind man to prove angles and perspectives. we are now blind to some degree .. but there is an elephant we have standing in the room and that same one has us pinned against the wall because it is so big.. but you know it is an elephant by the trumpeting

I read the link, but I disagree. The "we" couldn't have been angels for they have no power to create anything. The "WE" must have been the godhead. True. It's the same "we" (The Trinity) that said "Come let us go down and confuse their language" in Genesis 11:7. Could you please share what the Hebrew word is that was translated "us" so I can further research it? Actually . . . if some one can actually provide the Hebrew words translated "us" and "our" in Gen 1:26 that would be helpful too. yes break down Psa 110:1 it is Jehovah says to Adon.. but this word is it is written as Adon-ai also and that is plural form of Adon Why are you directing me to Psalms when my question is about Hebrew words in Genesis I am not asking about Psalms at all. It is the Hebrew words and sentence structure only in the verses in question, show me the Hebrew words translated "us" and "our" in Gen 1:26 and 11:7. If the word your submitting isn't used in those verses, it is irrelevant to the request. Please show the placement of the Hebrew word in the verses as well similarly to the example - Ge 1:26 And God <'elohiym> said, <'amar> Let us make <`asah> man <'adam> in our image, <tselem> after our likeness: <damuwth> and let them have dominion <radah> over the fish <dagah> of the sea, My <yam> and over the fowl <`owph> of the air, <shamayim> and over the cattle, <bahemah> and over all the earth, <'erets> and over every creeping thing <remes> that creepeth <ramas> upon the earth. <'erets> Please point out the words translated from the Hebrew "us" and "our" . . . . but really Jehovah talks to Adonai all the time in the scriptures.. they are a' We's' isn't Elohyim and plural of EL? direct translation might be like "THE WE'S" are making him/man to be look alike ( thus to look alike the noun , the main subject) ..... the noun is the THE WE"S who will get copied on to what the man will be.. because there was no adam yet to be the main subject. so whom do you say our image came from angels? 'elohiym Pronunciation el·ō·hēm' (Key) Part of Speech masculine noun Root Word (Etymology) Plural of אֱלוֹהַּ (H433) TWOT Reference 93c Outline of Biblical Usage 1) (plural) a) rulers, judges b) divine ones c) angels d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) a) god, goddess b) godlike one c) works or special possessions of God d) the (true) God e) God

but I would like for you to prove to me how the name Ceasar is 666? because that is not what john saw! well I think or have come to learn (sometimes the hard way) that almost every one of His prophesy is truthing.. it is on going, on and on truth, forever truth ,. it was truth .. is truth .. will be truth. truth is truth in spirit, physical, emotional and metal levels it can have mini fullfillement and have partial fulfillment's in each arena and any age or times .. it has many ways and many levels of fulfillment's . for a prophesy/revelation to be true he says it must have "two witnesses". that is when and how his spirit confirms a truth mostly that is to come. so he has to /usually /becomes his own double witness! well if his prophesy is true and has partial fulfillment sometime in the past , they can be almost complete then but not totally encompass the whole prophesy......and Then let say it was true like over time or with a second event that it was partially pictured in .. then that is the "two witnesses" and thus confirm IT IS HIS revealed TRUTH and HIs spoken word thus it will be true/truer/truthing in the future event pictured . because His Truth IS like him and thus it is forever like He was, is and will be... because His Truthing is a on going thing. a on going revelation of who He is and what he said and revealed . but mostly what I know His true is, that most of the time, and I will say most of the time! and I do say only "most of the time " ( because he is only going to throw so many wormwoods at this world....) because he really doesn't like fitting in anyone's boxes very well.. but 'usually His prophesy/revelations become their own witnesses and that is also how we know it will also happen again someday.LIke in the same way that the prophesy of "the Elijah to come" was fulfilled in john the baptist and on the mount of transfiguration, and thus confirms it will be true at the end of the age when the two witnesses come. it is also and on going truth because every year the spirit of prophesy is here and like passover we are to let him in to dine with us and break bread with it . so it has many many fulfillments on many levels .. because it is HIS truth and his truth is truthing .. so is it wise for me or anyone to pick one age in which his 'truth'/revelation happened? and then to claim it is the ONLY truth ...of anything and all the things that God has said I have to pick just one? and is it wise for me to argue that one age IS the only fullfillment of any and all his given truthings? if I do that I just might miss the future fulfillments at every level. well so no YOU wont' catch me doing that again! if somehow I am forced to pick a age it truths most ...then I reserve my picks for his "ultimate TRUTHS" till the end this age as the Fulfillment that is to come.. no I have really tried to stopped telling him what his truth is or isn't a while back .

I read the link, but I disagree. The "we" couldn't have been angels for they have no power to create anything. The "WE" must have been the godhead. True. It's the same "we" (The Trinity) that said "Come let us go down and confuse their language" in Genesis 11:7. Could you please share what the Hebrew word is that was translated "us" so I can further research it? Actually . . . if some one can actually provide the Hebrew words translated "us" and "our" in Gen 1:26 that would be helpful too. yes break down Psa 110:1 it is Jehovah says to Adon.. but this word is it is written as Adon-ai also and that is plural form of Adon

well I think the basic, bottom line, answer is that we are mind, spirit and body. Just like he is.. here is my reasoning. so I think there a lot of parallels and analogies that can be learned or drawn for his concepts there.. that can make it all still be his truth. because his word is alive and always truthing in the now. so here is one idea.. See how we must maintain at least two of our parts in the same place to "exsist" in this dimension. In like the way our spirit and body can be in a comma but our mind can be dead as a door nail .. but we can still exist here. or millions walk around with a body and a mind but no spirit, because he says it is dead. so is that why Jesus had to return to the father after his death in order for the spirit to come here? two elements of his being must exist in the same place or everything would stop maybe?but I don't know what would happen! I just suspect we all would die maybe. who is there to hold it all together right? well this is what I suspect he means by' in his image'.. or in his likeness. is what I suspect anyway. so maybe He is drawing a parallel for us to understand how he is one and parts in the same way we are one but in parts or functions..

Acts 2:38 is not formula, nor is it a doctrinal statement. People grab this and about 4or 5 other verses from various contexts and string them together to make it appear that baptism is necessary for salvation. There is no doctrinal treatment of baptism in the New Testament which demands that baptism is a necessary precondition for salvation. Anyone can string some verses together, apply a hyper-literal understanding to those verses and make the Bible pretty much say whatever they want it to say. Repentance is not a one-time event. Repentance is or at least, should be a continuous part of our lives, every day. We should live in an attitude of repentance. right .. some well maybe like early on( or yes even now days )the gentiles may have received the baptism of the spirit before the baptism of the water=john the baptism..= law/repentance. or else who but the spirit could teach them the true meaning of repentance and the beauty and protection and blessings of HIS laws , or what sin even is or was .. some maybe have true events of cleansing Fire in their lives to burn out dross and never come to events/knowledge of true repentance and truely understand that concept and it's power in our daily lives or to events of his spirit and really learn to follow him even in our smallest moments . I think we have to have these three events somehow in our lives, the order is his business.. these events are in order to really know him and follow him so that He is" LORD of ALL" our life . all three mentally, emotionally and physically immersed events that put tools and gifts in our tool box for his work and Armour on us for our protection and write his laws in our hearts/minds and soul. I do not believe water/knowledge of sin does all that is required and the law alone does all of that. though it USUALLY starts with repentance to some degree. but I have to say I have seen it start with the spiritual baptism first . now that I think about, I had a wonderful old friend who was an old burned out alcoholic when we first met him and he wasn't long for this world and he couldn't even read. So he got baptized in the spirit first> Then at night during his dreams the pages of the bible would slowly turn, night after night he had this dream. he would wake up in the morning and be able to quote whole pages of the bible. and in his sleep he learned to read. after just 6 months of bible dreaming he could read the whole thing and understood it. and even more Bizarre he really believed it! He had alot of bad years to make up for and boy did he! His short little " 2nd life" really was something to see. and Boy did he love the lord and was so grateful to him .. about 4 years later he died of cancer , but he had raised the dead and heal alot of people.. and prayed like crazy for untold numbers. He would call you the next morning and say " you had a headache last night and couldn't sleep and I was praying for you . and he was right. or he would say " what were you doing yesterday at three o clock " did you almost get hit by a car? because I was praying about that.." so sometimes the baptisms go opposite from our ideas of "normal" or you know correct or incorrect 'doctrinal' theory. maybe the point being one immersion will/should lead up to the others.

Ps oops I hope you know ...Joe that didn't mean YOU ! I mean yous/you'ens/us all/mankind/anyone .

yes good one joe " the one greater who will baptise you with the spirit AND WITH FIRE" everyone always forgets this part ,and that is the most important part! yes because we all are going to get "fired up" one way or the other! Man sometimes wishes he can avoid both of those two things ( that the one greater than john brings )and stick with the baptism in water part ... but you can't and know him, and trust that ONE. there is three baptisms.. so the question really is " can YOU'en's call yourself a "christian" and go to hell".and the bible already answers that (jesus say " I never knew you" to some). so the better question is " if the father calls someone a Christian can you go to hell" I think the answer is NO we won't . because the good new is "for those who overcome" and that is conditional and so I believe in a " the results based doctrine " if you don't get the results, you didn't have the faith in him for the process! how do you get the results?... so oh yes that ( one greater's ) baptisms in Spirit and FIRE thingy! (again)

well I think there is a time and a place and a person. it probably not the right time, yet. but only God knows if told others to do it! that part we are not to judge our brothers over . he may want a bunch of radicals and tuffies who were willing to go down for what they believe in .... a free american dedicated to God...in the prison system to take it down. we don't know that. there is a place if he told someone to do it and a place they are to do that also .. but mostly there is a person.. someday Elijahs or Moses of our day 144000 plus 2 ... will come and be screaming " what is your god on the can" at them too.. but they will be able to call fire from heaven on anyone they wish .. so until we can do that I think we better just share His love with them because that is all we got to work with, because that is all he has given in our tool boxes..... but we have to keep working on that fire thing..