DaniJ87

And isn't it nice you can just pull the plug on them when they get too intense? :-) and no worries about personal space...

LOL... I read that heading, and looked down at my own count... as it climbed just about that high... how funny... yay for both of us... ~Danette

I don't care for fortune cookies from the store very much- tasteless.. however, I don't think there's much harm in reading the piece of paper inside, as long as you are not believing in it and taking it as a prophecy or something. We made fortune cookies not too long ago- they were delicious- and we put "Proverbs" inside them, (from the book of Proverbs...) instead of strange phrases. I do think that someone sure must have had creativity, coming up with the fortunes for all those many cookies.... I wonder how many duplicates there are.... :-)

If your are confused about whether or not JW and mormons are Christians, read the book "Out of Mormonism" by Judy Robertson. You can find it on Amazon.com. Also try a simple google search- you can come up with scathes of results about the history or mormonism, etc.... it is a cult. Not a denomination. Read up a bit more on the subject, and you will probably agree. You do not need the trinity to decide whether or not they are Christians- they do not believe in salvation by faith, they do not believe that you can go to heaven without following every single one of their rules, their beliefs have changed many times throughout history- every time an archaeological finding disproved something they had formerly claimed, they changed their claims... they even formerly believed in blood sacrifice- killing someone who was penitent so that their soul would be saved. nothing I have ever read about their cult was even possible to be Christian. I get chills reading about their beliefs... Did you know that they are condemned if they read something not approved by their church? good luck on your research... what do you have against the trinity, anyway- and how does that pertain to the subject of the thread, in the first place?

I guess I should have gone with my gut and written the sidenote in my post as "please don't quote verses because I already know them" The truth is, sexual orientation isn't really something a person can choose. I must take this into consideration as I read those verses.

cool. I think we have one of those in town... I had no idea who started the chain.. maybe I will have to go to one, now.. dwarf houses???

Exactly. And did you know that basically all of the "cavemen" they found had misshapen bones not because they were "intermeadiate links", but because they had rickets' disease, or vitamin deficiencies?

Ok... as for the incest thing. When God created Adam and Eve, they had the genes for every possible racial difference. Because of the massive amount of genes, the children had different enough genetic codes that it did not matter if they intermarried. Besides that, they would have to, if the human race was not to die out. Nowadays, our genetic pool is so much smaller, people who are siblings have a LOT more similarities... and this is what causes all of the defects from incest... Once God gave the law against it, our gene pool had become small enough that it mattered. I think it's awesome the way He works things...

According to one of my classes, poverty is defined in two ways. First, there is an "absolute" measure of poverty. You are considered to be in this bracket if your family makes less than 19,000 a year.(this is for families, I believe- not an individual- their poverty line is lower) I believe that this is also assuming that you hav rent payments, etc. Many "welfare" programs are based on this measure- some say that you qualify for aid if you make up to 150% of the "poverty level", etc. Another measure of poverty is the "relative" measure of poverty. In an area where costs are higher and the average income is high, someone with 40,000 may be viewed as poor. This is how the US government and the social workers view poverty. I believe that a lot of the people who are "poor" would do just fine if they were given a scholarship to go to a tech school and learn a trade, or something...(that is, those on welfare because they can't get a job) Some really do have problems paying their rent, and providing for their children... but there are many people who are poor because of their lifestyle choices... (and maybe because they pay for cable and internet instead of some essentials...or maybe a nintendo...) It is estimated however, that the group at the most risk for living in poverty is the children. One major thing that many families in poverty cannot afford, is health insurance. Imagine- with a very low income, and one child who gets sick- if you bring them to the doctor, it costs a fortune! This is especially true of individuals whose income is just a tiny bit above the "poverty line". These people do not qualify for any aid, but they sometimes still cannot afford insurance- so their budgets are really devoured by the high cost of care. However, the poverty number for absolute poverty is not very accurate, as costs of living in different areas can be drastically different. For example, in Alaska, the poverty level is about $35,000- because food must be flown in.. (a gallon of milk costs $9 if you buy it in AK) One thing that I hadn't known before, is that welfare, also known as "TANF" has a life of 5 years. No one can get TANF for longer than that- and it is only available to families with children under age 18. Well- that's a bunch of random facts about poverty... I don't know how accurate they are... but that's what was taught in the class..

first of all, I have not seen any references so far, to anything longer than a verse or two. Context is EVERYTHING. Without context, you can twist the Bible to say whatever you want. the bit about zondervan and the satanic bible is silly- Amazon.com probably sells it too- does that mean that we can't buy anything from there? The people who translated the Bible are much different than whoever wrote the other thing. For one, it would not be translated- just written by a single, sinful man. So there is not much similarity. Secondly, what about the dates? When were the two written? Were they written simultaneously? Or, as I suspect, is this other thing much more recent? It is also not from "Zondervan", which produces KJV AND NIV bibles... but from another entity, which just happens to own Zondervan. If they DID mess with the NIV translations... how do you know that they did not mess with the KJV as well? I am very pleased to see that man's testimony debunked... I always thought it seemed a bit false. He did, however point out someting... "The New American Standard Version is not the King James Version. It never was, isn't, and never will be." this is true. They were translated in different times, by different people, and by those with different backgrounds than we. Just like the Latin Vulgate. Good point about "Lucifer"... I will ask my pastor about that. Maybe he knows something we don't. But yeah- I don't know of anywhere that makes this connection in particular. ---------- Original languages are inspired... not what we do with them. However, God's Words will never return to Him void. I think that the KJV vs. The Rest debate has been all played out. If one version was truely better than the others, I think there would be more of a consensus by now. but there isn't. So I will continue to worship God and study His Word out of my NIV bible, and I will let you use whatever you want... It is a preference issue, rather than a doctrine issue.

homosexuality is either a choice, in which may be moral to condemn it all, or else it is a defect, in which case it can be pitied, and the acceptance of it is to be avoided- rather, we would need to work to come up with a cure for it. It cannot be widely occuring naturally, and could not be a genetic trait passed on from generation to generation, as homosexual animals would not reproduce. If these animals DO reproduce, then this is no more comparable to people than black widow spiders eating their "husbands", or tom cats killing the kittens. abnormal behavior is a choice, not a gene that gets "passed down", for very logical reasons. note: these reasons are only part of why I believe this... I have not touched the Biblical reasons yet, which are also completely normal and rational reasons.

what you say makes sense. The hair thing was primarily a matter of cultrue- just like "wearing braids" was, for women... both were because of the connotations or atmosphere around them.

I had a creationist speaker explain this one to me: 2 possible explanations: Before the flood, the air was much more dense, and humid. There was a sort of "halo" of water around the atmosphere, protecting from harsh sun rays, etc... Because of the air being more dense, there was more oxygen in it. Oxygen is healthy for your body, (helps it heal- remember those pressure chambers they put people in?) and this explanation also explains part of why people lived so long. There was enough more oxygen that people's bodies healed faster from injury and sicknes, and they lived longer. Dinosaurs were created for this environment. Because of the higher pressure of the air, their lungs were smaller. After the flood, the pressure decreased, and it became apparent that the dinosaur's lungs were inadequate for the new environment, because they were not large enough to take in enough of this diluted air, in order to get enough oxygen. They were not made for the environment, (like, a fish is not made to be out of water, and a person can't breathe water) and so, the larger dinosaurs died out. The smallest dinosaurs did not have this type of problem, because their bodies were smaller, and they were able to adjust. (give a whale a very low oxygen content in the air above it's tank, and it will have problems. Put a smaller animal on top of a mountain- and it can adapt.) Many of these dinosaurs were killed, (think, dragons) by people, but some are rumored to still live, in an African swamp. (the locals go hunting for them; a creationist scientist got to see one, etc) Another possibility, is that they ran out of food; perhaps the largest dinosaurs did not have enough to eat after the flood, when the animals had all just started multiplying again. After all, if the big dinosaur has six eggs at a time, and its food multiplies in sixes, the dino will run out of food, because it needs a lot to eat. This does not mean that they all died- just that most of them did. Note that this world has a lot of spaces that people have never entered; and that there could be lots of dinosaurs there. Believing that there are still some scientists present solves a lot of problems- for example, what is in Loch Ness? I believe there are some water-inhabiting dinosaurs. Loch Ness is so large, that there is very little need for them to come out in the open- and searching for them may be futile, because they are able to hide. As for the person who thinks that dinosaurs were invented... I know a home-school group who went "dino digging", and found not one, but THREE giant dinosaur skeletons. They were the most complete skeletons that had ever been found for that kind of dinosaur, in fact. here are some links to this story: this is cool. Note that these are not evolutionists, and not professionals. They dug these things out of the ground- they didn't create them. maybe you should go on one of these dino excursions and see the bones for yourself... However, I must agree that not everything in a museum is authentic. The paleontologists go a little overboard extrapolating what the creatures looked like. However, this does not mean that they do not exist- just that the ones in the museum may be useless- for example, when the flood had the ground all squooshy and swirling around as mud, how do they know that all the bones they have are actually for a particular dinosaur, and not parts of five or six? also, while many of those models ARE mostly humanly contstructed pieces, think about it... if we have five different skeletons for one type of dinosaur, and each one was 20% authentic, and each had found some different pieces, for it, all they would have to do to get an idea of what their missing pieces looked like, is to look at the bones from the other museums' skeletons. it's not so bad that way, is it?

exactly. you are a better articulator than I

What about what could have happened in OT times? Do you think that every decision that they ever made was perfect? But God gave the system, anyway. Whether or not you have to forgive people who offend you, comparing it to Christ is sort of missing the point; Jesus did not just forgive our debts- he took the payment FOR them, as He was a perfect being who was capable of that. This did not extend to whatever people were doing physically, and how the government sees them: If someone murders someone, Jesus' sacrifice says, "look- I will forgive you for your sin- go and sin no more". However, it does not say, "I forgive you- so you don't need to take the punishment for your crimes." Consequences do not to away, just because you are forgiven. Moreover, if you do not accept the forgiveness, you do not have escape from even the spiritual consequences. Also, comparing it to the adulterous woman, is illogical- If you notice, Jesus did not even say that adulteresses should not be stoned. He merely said "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Because none of us is without sin, and people still need to be punished, He was obviously not talking about ANY type of sin, but of that type of sin in particular; if you are an adulterer, you have no right to be executing the adulteress. Jesus said that He did not come to condemn the law, but to fulfill it. That means that he did not completely eradicate all laws that occur in the OT. Also consider that in the OT, being a rebellious child was enough to earn you the death penalty. Today, we are quite lenient, only giving the death penalty for serious felonies. The OT is not obsolete; only fufilled and completed. Amen! For everyone else; once you decide that the government has the authority to give out punishment- think about the punishments for things in the OT... compare it to what we have now, and then see if you think that our government is too harsh. the death penalty is not murder. Murder is done because of sin in the committing person's heart. The death penalty is death because it is the consequence to a law- which by the way, is well known. Everyone knows that if they are convicted of murder, they are likely to be executed. So if they choose to violate the law, they are accepting this consequence. Just because they may, or may not say "I'm sorry" afterwards, especially in the area of murder, the person they killed is still dead. They cannot undo it, neither can they retract the consequences. You get what you bargained for. If you commit a crime, you get the allotted punishment for it.

Hmmmmmmmmm..............you didn't mention the conseqenses of sin. I think Hell should be preached first. Then God's Grace. I reckon I could do a pretty good message on that! (LOL)

Read "The Grace and Truth Paradox", by Randy Alcorn. The whole book is on this topic. It is awesome to think about how beyond us, God is. I believe that you must present both God's grace and love, as well as His truth, and justice. Focusing on one to the neglect of the other does not teach the true Gospel. Saying "Jesus Loves you, and wants you to be with Him in heaven- so follow Him" isn't the whole story. Saying "Jesus hates sin and you will go to hell if you don't follow Him" isn't the whole story. Saying "You are a sinner. Jesus loves you, but He hates sin. He wants you to live with Him in Heaven, but nothing sinful can be in Heaven. He gave his life for you on the cross to pay for your sins, and if you accept his free and perfect gift of eternal life, you can live with Him forever in Heaven." IS the whole story. does this help?

I have a cleft lip and palate. There are milions who want to look normal. I think I'm not too bad...........but there are some who desparateley want to look ok, for their own self-confidence. yomo- I am just curious... didn't you get your palate repaired? Is it just the scars and stuff left, or did you just never have surgery to repair it? I am taking a class in college about speech disorders and impairments- and that includes cleft lip and palate. What is in a person's heart is a million times more important and powerful than what they look like on the outside. Some of the most beautiful people are also the most wicked. ~Danette

My college is really annoying- it is attacking "resident assistants", (students who basically supervise parts of the dorms) for leading bible-studies in their own personal dorm rooms. This is frustrating.... apparently, RA's are on duty all 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.... good news- FIRE has cracked down on the university for doing this.... (and some news media has covered it- like it was on the Fox News website..) the university asked the state attourney general for advice... but the attorney general declined- saying that (he/she-- which?) wouldn't damage their ability to deal with this issue if it comes up in court. So now... I wonder what will happen? Read the articles about it all here- at FIRE. (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education) http://www.thefire.org/index.php/schools/1834

Where do I get this idea? Here is where.... The Spirit is what allows us to carry out the work of God. There is a spirit of prophecy in saints that reveals the condition of the people or their hearts. The spirits of the prophets are subject to their control (1 Corinthian 14:32). And on knowing the heart.... 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!" We also see that in Romans 2:5 that Paul is speaking out AGAINST unbelievers and here he says, "But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath..." So since when did men have knowledge of the heart of man? Since always. I know some brothers who can know it. Yet there can be times when we make an error. Also there can be brothers who are deceived by unclean spirits and thus may speak the truth but a word that would be destructive to the person. The latter two are in error and would need prayer and admonishment. Dani you said the following, "I read that whole length of posts... and some of them were quite venemous." Please indicate to me what was venemous. If there were I do not believe any of them were my responses to Itzomi. If you disagree then SHOW me my error. For up to this time no one has SHOWN me what was wrong... The only thing that I have received are indirect responses that are very general. All I receive is that I was being "mean" or "judgemental". Yet no one is showing me what they feel exactly makes me "mean" or "judgemental". Itzomi was a christian that had gone back to a non-believing christian. Okay...Peter spoke this concerning them... 1 Peter 2:21-22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." Did I ever call Itzomi..."A dog who has returned to its vomit" or "A sow that is washed but has gone back to her wallowing in the mud"? No, yet you accuse me of being "mean" and "unloving"?! If you look again, each time I gave a very thorough response regarding what she CAN DO to seek the truth. I first expose the problem and indicate the solution. The solution has been the majority of all my responses yet it seems like all you are concentrating on is the other part of exposing the problem. In the Old testament the majority of the prophecies to the people are exposing the problem and it is less on the blessing. And Dani, you clearly did not read my last response here. Since you say I can't know anything about the person over a message board... I made that clear in the following... Please read carefully. What error am I refering to? The error of being wrong in the condition of her heart. For I did not see it through the words (externally) but I felt it while reading the message. So nothing on the outside or NOTHING ON THE MESSAGE BOARD caused such conviction. It was primarily what I felt was going on. And again, I openly admitted that I could be in error. And being that I was convicted of this not from the words on the screen but through what I felt...it would require prayer. I already PMed Fiosh and I also invite many others to continue to discuss how they feel I was wrong in my converastion with Itzomi. Since this is becoming more personal and less public oriented, it would be best for my sake that it be done through private messaging. Oh...and you also said that following and I'm assuming it's in regards to me... Please read ALL of my posts and see whether this is true or not. For you to say to me that I have not been doing this is very judgmental. I have ALWAYS given an answer....I had always ANSWERED truthfully and sincerely (please show me out of all my posts when I have had a snide remark, or insult and when I have NOT taken pple seriously). And of course it is for EVERYONE...did you not see that I wrote to Fiosh in this very thread that we should share a message of blessing and condemnation with both those we favor and those we do not like. I, even in fact said, if we favor or dislike ANYone in the church our heart is not in the right place. And now you say REASON, very very much so. Did you not read why I told Itzomi to "prayfully read the New Testament?" The New Testament speaks of Christ who is the expression of God and 'prayfully reading' is done so you may receive scripture correctly. So do I get it? Very much so as indicated by my posts in this forum. I am sorry that you took my whole post as a personal attack on you. I was not speaking only to you, or even mostly to you. I was speaking after getting a general impression of the entire thread's attitudes. Sure, a lot of you put snippets at the end of a post that gives you a disclaimer for judging someone's condition... but does that really change the way that the rest of the message reads? Once someone has read the rest of something, and feels belittled, (the "why do you ask such silly/unimportant/trivial questions" feeling) is it going to make them instantly feel better, if they read a little bit at the bottom of a post, that vaguely disclaims the contents? I still do not see sufficient proof from those few verses you showed me, to demonstrate why it is certain that we, TODAY have the ability to see into people's hearts. However, I am going to drop that, because I think it is likely a denominational issue, that will not be able to be solved. as to Itzomi, regardless of what she may or may not have done, we still need to show compassion. Because WE cannot know when a person has passed the point of no return (when they are unable to repent), we must continue to show them God's love.

I think that there have been books written by Christians debunking these codes.... in as many words as the Bible has- of COURSE there are going to be things that you can find acrostics with... and coincidences in the numbers.... however, the Bible was not written in English... so, (if they are studying these in english) they are completely worthless. for example- in a random string of numbers, you have the same odds of getting a number such as "1939" or "1776", or "2001", as you do, of a number such as 1234, or 9537, or 4158. This is not anything more than chance. with as many letters as there are in the Bible- you are bound to be able to pick out certain letters, if you try hard enough, and study the words long enough, so that you can pick out letters in the right pattern. This doesn't necessarily mean it comes from God- but just that there WAS a coincidence. I don't think God hid any meaning from us, that we would be able to find, using that kind of "codes". If He wanted to hide it, we won't find it. If He wanted us to know it- He would have written it in, just like the rest of the Bible. another thing to think about.... with the so-called bible codes... have the researchers come up with anything that is written in there, that has NOT already happened? Anyone can come up with something that's happened.... let me know when they publish a date or event from those codes, that 1. is defined enough to focus it on a specific event; 2. is in the future; and 3. happens, AFTER publication.

founded ON the faith, would tend to mean that it wasa a "Christian" country- with a national church, and everything. founded on Christian principles would mean that our country was based on the ethical and governmental principles found in the Bible, and in Christianity. I agree- there IS a difference. a country full of pagans, cannot be a Christian country.

first of all, where do you get the idea that this lets you know what goes on inside someone else? NO ONE can see everything that another person feels, or thinks, or believes. "Man looks on the outward appearance".... You may be able to tell if a person is really upset, or frustrated, or needs encouragement- but you can't see anyone's heart on the inside. Just what they choose to/or inadvertently do, show you. as it was already said- sometimes people DO act nonchalant about things, when they really do care. secondly- since when does God say anything about what you can perceive through a message board? You can't see the person, or hear their voice... all it is is words on a page. It is a very shallow representation. It skips all the emotion, and the body language... and the voice tones... you could be mistaking something because they come from a different culture... I don't agree that anything like what Stephen may have had, is around in such quantity today- and certainly, it wouldn't be accurate to claim you can "know" someone's heart, over message board. about Itzomi; I PM'd her, and found out that she decided to leave for good- because of her ill reception. I read that whole length of posts... and some of them were quite venemous. Just because someone hasn't given in to the truth- doesn't mean that name-calling, and condemnation will do it! (not talking in this part about any specific person) one thing that was never said to her, related to her turning her back on God... no one said, "Itzomi, you can turn you back on God- but He will never turn His back on you." (this relating to her saying that she "had" been a Christian...) or, "If you are a Christian, God NEVER lets you go- no matter how much you decide you don't want Him." everyone assumed that she would understand the reasoning that all comes from a Biblical perspective... but if someone is an unbeliever, they cannot always understand our logic- even the Bible attests to this. Letting go of your own opinions and beliefs is hard... it's not just a problem with unbelievers... what about the Christians who can't manage to understand how something constitutes legalism? I can give you a perfectly logical, and to me, "sufficient" explanation... but if you are struggling with it, you may not be objective enough to see that the answer makes sense. also, "ALWAYS be prepared, to give an ANSWER, to EVERYONE who asks the REASON for the hope that is within you." ALWAYS- not just sometimes- or until you think someone should have understood it... think about it.... think about how many times Jesus had to explain the fact that he was DYING to the disciples! ANSWER- not a snide remark, or insult.. but a sincere answer. Take people seriously- no matter how bizarre they sound. If they are not serious, they will learn not to post on the board. EVERYONE- not just the people you like- but EVERYONE! REASON- not just an "I believe" statement- but a "why I believe" statement! and a "what I believe" put together! get the idea? we really need to take the questions of unsaved people seriously. and show them Christ's love.

1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one know not to eat. hi- just wanted to make sure that you saw that this verse is directed at church discipline... (if a chuch member commits adultery, you are not supposed to do things with them) it is not directed towards the unsaved in general- after all, Jesus ate with the sinners. It is not bad to be friends with unsaved people- it is, however, wrong to stop associating with Christians- and it is wrong to have only non-christians as your inner circle of friends- because whoever your friends are, determines the influences that you will have on your life. The Bible does not tell us to refuse to discriminate between right and wrong- but you are just not supposed to say, "wow- look at him- he's much worse off than me!"

sister- remember that God loves you- and you are WORTH so MUCH! Do not be afraid to go to your pastor- he must be completely confidential, anyway- so having told/not told your dad, shouldn't make much difference. If your dad was not the person who abused you- then you should consider telling him. Let him support you. Dads can be wonderful at that. (