JohnD

Consider that the Word of God was not sent from heaven in golden plates or meteor rock. It was divinely inspired by God the Holy Spirit through the prophets (some writing others not). 2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV) 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. So the word of God was revealed to man progressively (or with progression). So when we get the "throw your hands up" replies from those who refer back to the earlier portions of the Bible and say in so many words "that's not the way we used to do it..." we could throw this monkey wrench into any doctrine by the way... we are going the wrong way biblically. We have indicators of a plurality in the Godhead as far back as Genesis 1:1. Genesis 1:1 (KJV) 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. The Hebrew word for God is Elohiym. Elohe is the singular of the plural Elohiym. Literally Gods. The later clarification Deuteronomy 6:4 and several others indicate that there is only one God. But there's this use of the plural elohiym throughout the Old Testament (2700 times in fact). Some say it is a plurality of royalty. But it is not right to impose a practice that began only a few hundred years ago... long after the last book of the Bible was penned... and apply it to the text dictated to Moses some 4 to 5 thousand years ago... Rather it was to establish a compound one (or compound unity) and not negate the plurality within the unity. I use one family unit as an example of this but there are many compound unities like one corporation, one government, one nation... compound units all. You have to also bear in mind that many things were in their infancy like language and grammar. For example, the way to state what we would call superior holiness the ancient Hebrew would simply say holy holy holy. This was also deliberate in that there are three individuals who are the one compound unity (God). Genesis 1:1-3 (KJV) 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. What is this Spirit OF God if not a distinct individual from the one simply called "God" who is doing the creating? Why not, and God moved upon the face of the waters if this is one and the same individual in verses 1 and 3? It's the same kind of method Helen Keller's teacher used to break through all her barriers. Keller was born blind and deaf and no one could break through to her except a woman who signed in her had things like "hot" over and over as she held the child's hand to something hot then repeated the words in her hand "hot hot hot." Think back to the way your parents explained your family to you. Mother is family. Dad is family. You are family. The three of us is one family. A family is a compound unit a unity of plurality. Else is ceases to be a family. There's no such thing as a family of one. The same is true about God and how God expressed the divine nature to humanity.

If that's all I have left to look forward to... kill me now! Actually I watched it a few times and loved it several years ago... My beloved grandmother was quite insistent that we heathen grand kids had better be on fire or something before we made a peep during her one program on TV a week the Lawrence Welk Champagne hour... Saw his museum near Temecula, Calif (my old stomping ground) Grandma would have loved it!!

Never again. My posts and teaching with regard to Israel and all that Israel is... are only with the proper love and reverence for the physical heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I guess my posts about spiritual Israel is mistaken for replacement theology. It is not. Nor am I indifferent towards the Jewish people. I wrestle with HaShem every day for the salvation of benai Yisro'el... and what I believe the Bible says about the false messiah to come (essentially plowing with Adonoi's heifer) makes my efforts and those who witness to Jewish people all the more urgent to steal from the counterfeit messiah as many of the beloved children of Israel (winning them to the true Messiah) as we can. I am appalled by the indifference if not the antisemitic attitudes of the Church (spiritual Israel albeit way off course) towards the Jewish people and the most recent attempt at Israeli genocide (that awful Haman being among the first if not the very first)... Sha'alu shalom Yerushalayim

There is a strange doctrine (Anglo-Israeliism) and typical antisemitism that teaches there is no interchangeability with Jew and Israel. This is patently false as I have dem,demonstrated.

And what of this?

One must not think of prophets as mystical foreseers of the future as they are simply interpreters / mouthpieces for the Word of God which sometimes does in fact predict the future. But it proclaims the present and the past and the eternal as well.

I personally believer there are... but far fewer than think they are, or proclaim to be. I know of a modern prophet who simply put scripture to scripture and came up with the calculation for the 69 of the 70 weeks of Daniel (173,880 days from the time Artaxerxes Longimanus wrote the edict to rebuild Jerusalem to the day the Messiah rode into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey). Sir Robert Anderson.

I used to argue this point to the nth degree against women being pastors or having any authority over men in the Church. I argued that the Aquila and Priscilla teaching Apollos a better doctrine about the Gospel was an argument from silence since no specific mention of who said or did what was made. Aquila could have done the teaching and Priscilla could have been the hostess which was a ministry (Acts 6:1-7). That Junia was outstanding among the Apostles did not mean she was an apostle... that the prophetic ministry of Deborah was to the shame of the cowardice males of her day (Judges 4-5). And that the spirit of Jezebel: Revelation 2:20 (NIV) 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. But other translations don't put it quite that way... it wasn't the fact of her teaching that lead the servants astray it was the teaching itself... Revelation 2:20 (KJV) 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Furthermore, since the New Covenant is not like the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32-34 the text on which the book of Hebrews is based) wherein a particular tribe was the priestly tribe and a particular clan was the priestly clan and the various courses of that clan... to the New Covenant priesthood of all believers. Revelation 1:6 (KJV) 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Revelation 5:10 (KJV) 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 1 Peter 2:3-9 (KJV) 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: And most believers pass their spiritual duty and obligations off to the "professional" Christians (i.e. the clergy) we are suffering from a greater shortfall (percentage-wise) than in the days of the Prophetess Deborah. And it is better that women preach and teach usurping the authority of men (1 Timothy 2:9-15) than that the Gospel is silenced or severely handicapped by the absence of men and women stepping up to the spiritual ministry each is individually called to. I since have come to the defense of women pastors and have refocused my efforts to getting pew packing bleacher Christians off their duffs and into the ministry God has called them into individually!!!

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV) 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother

Not at all. In fact I did state he could have created it all yesterday. But that there was a prophetic meaning and method why he did it in six days plus one of rest. And further to create the stage to allow those who would choose him to choose him over the course of some y10k. The rest of your reply was pretty much framing of arguments... and 2TLD as you put it on a large scale supports my every point since what larger scale is there than the universe itself. Consider what I said about being indoctrinated by those who disbelieve God exists and that you can't ride the two ponies for ever. That's all.

Full evolutionists and partial evolutionists alike have this one thing in common... they disbelieve the literal, sequential account of creation in Genesis 1 from the stand point of either conditions in the cosmos today or the bias of how they would have done things differently. It blows the minds of the evolutionist to think that the Creator could or would create a universe that was already in full function. Or that he would create humans as adults fully functional from day one. That comes from the mentality that this is not how its done... NOW. I refer my evolutionist friends to the laws of thermodynamics... as in LAWS of thermodynamics versus the THEORY of evolution... Now most who pride themselves on the scientific method and how they use this to blast the creation account must abide by the rules of their methodology in that a law of physics trumps a theory that contradicts that law. The Second LAW of thermodynamics (maximum entropy) is itself in stark contradiction to the mere THEORY of evolution. Maximum Decline in all things involving or possessing heat (which would certainly include living cells and organisms and species). The second law indicates all things are in a state of decline while the mere theory supposes all things are winding upwards... Setting this aside... the second LAW of thermodynamics proves that the universe is not eternal. Or it would be refiring itself and maximum entropy would be kaput rather than the LAW of physics it is. Couple this with the first LAW of thermodynamics (the LAW of conservation) which even Cary Grant understood in the movie Houseboat where he showed his child that the elements in the universe do not come into existence nor do they vanish... they merely change or move about... this would seem to help the mere theory of evolution but actually it presents the mere theory of macro-evolution its biggest dilemma: If there is no Creator, and the universe is not eternal, where did it all come from? The first and second LAWS of thermodynamics prove that the universe should not even be here. #2 says it cannot be eternal #1 says you cannot have things come into existence from nothing (from nothing nothing comes) So, how did it all get here? It's easy to prove the universe and everything in it are real. So, how did it get here? Religious evolutionists... those who believe in God yet subscribe to the theory of men who do not believe in God or more to the point they do not want God to exist... are a peculiar lot... Over the years I have tried to grasp why they are trying to ride two ponies at the same time... and the only rational conclusion I can come to is that their education (programming / brain washing) will not allow them to take the next step of faith... they can believe in a Creator who can create a universe from nothing, but that's the extent of the Creator's abilities... the rest is a matter of time and chance and survival of the fittest...and one star pushing against another to create solid elements on substars which form into core for planets and then life (or slime or mold and moss form and increase into higher life forms)... Either that or the rider of the two ponies has simply invested so much time and effort in the education of the non-theists that this compromise is as far as they can go without throwing out the majority of their prideful education... A God who is capable of creating things from nothing is capable of doing so fully formed. He could have done so in one day. It could have been yesterday. But creating a universe was not all this God had in mind or in purpose for creating it all. There was prophecy involved in the way he created the universe. The Earth for example may or may not be the physical center of the universe (since we cannot map the universe itself we cannot accurately pinpoint where that actual center is) but it is the central purpose for the universe to exist. You see, in Romans 6 and 2 Peter 3 the well being of the universe depends entirely upon this tiny little microscopic speck by comparison... And you who ride two ponies are coming at a biblical fork in the road and you had better make your choice quick.... Ask yourself this... if you were going to create a stage between heaven and hell to do what has historically needed to be done with all the systems and subsystems and various radiation wave lengths and whatnot to sustain this stage for some 10 thousand years... how would you have done differently and carried out to their logical conclusions how successful would that have been? Would you have made an enormous jar to contain humanity? Run tests on that scenario. Like all other ways than God's way all scenarios will eventually catastrophically fail. What is the purpose? Choice. If for example, in a Twilight Zone like episode Columbus discovered the edge of the Jar? Well then it would not be a matter of choice and faith but of empirical evidence of going to the wall of the jar, now wouldn't it? So, how else would you create a world scale stage for people to be able to choose between heaven and hell by faith for all the generations that this choice was to be made available to?

Caught me looking! LOL

In a real sense, the condition of the world around us is our report card to Christ. "What did you do with the time and salvation I gave you?" Imagine staring Judge Jesus in the face and having to answer this question.

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV) 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

You know... I cannot help but think of the huge contributions we (as individuals and as the Body of Christ) have made to the current way things are in the world. We gripe and moan and complain about the way things are (and they are as bad as we say they are and probably worse than we realize since we human beings are so easily desensitized to so much). But we are unwilling to even consider just how guilty we are for allowing the circumstances leading up to the current situation or how guilty we are for participating and indulging in the current situation... Perversion is deviation from the divine intention for that which he created. There is no doubt whatsoever that homosexuality is sexual perversion. Never mind what people say... the Bible IS the standard measure for truth. But how willing are WE to measure ourselves by that same standard? If we weren't in such moral failure ourselves... and / or living primarily for selfish pursuits like the rest of humanity... then we would have kept such blatant immorality in check. When the Church began the world was in the majority and the Church the minority. That was two millennia ago. The Church was commanded to be salt and light and not to be hidden under bowls 2,000 years ago. Yet one Church stronghold after the other is a series of post-Christian ruins... why? Partly because the world is just too tempting a place to be resisted generationally when the Church gets fat and lazy when its a stronghold. Partly because the Church has been so compromised by the Roman Catholic Empire and the denominational fragmentation making it weak and subject to human traditions and therefore entry for sin to seed and grow. Dare we stack ourselves against the biblical standard of sexual purity versus any deviation from that standard? Understand... I am in no way advocating homosexuality. It is the ultimate devil's mockery of marriage and human procreation. What I am saying is that until we in the Church get our own act together... we will only lose ground and never combat the Pandora we have unleashed. Unless we do, the only thing that historically corrected these things has been judgment calamity. And from the current events in economy and weather and earthquakes etc... it's apparently begun...

Yod, Mizz, We are talking about a religious leader among the Jews. One who clearly has something to do with the rebuilt temple and re-instituted levitical sacrifices. And as I said, no goy would approach the qodesh qodeshiym... and the Jews think all is well or enforce shabbat laws.

Lines are being drawn in the sand. Of that we can be sure. These things stem from what I was going to start a thread about, but simply adding it here will suffice. I am also certain this will not be the last we will discuss this topic. The Judgment of God It saddens me to write on the subject. I get no thrill, no enthusiastic head rush, no prophetic arrogance when I say by all indications we are under the judgment of God for having turned our backs on him... for having turned the Grace of God into a license to sin and to pursue our own will in place of God's will for our lives... we have closed our eyes to sin and evil and injustice... we have neglected our personal ministries and passed them on to the "professional" clergy... we have allowed perversion in our lives albeit less perversion than those who have no reason to restrain themselves... and the latter we have allowed to enter into the marketplace to gain power and now rule there and in the education system and in the realm of teaching our children that their way of life is as viable as ours and now even more viable to our old antiquated archaic ways which they claim was used to imprison and torture and murder people at the stake... It's everywhere. About the only place to escape it is in our prayer closets since not even in open Church services can we escape the influences of the world on the Body Christian. And our prayer closets are rarely visited (since we have so filled our days with the pursuit of our livelihoods or the many many hours we must work to afford it)... or we are distracted from prayer and Bible study and give God no time in our lives much less fulfill our duties to him... Is it any wonder the protective hedge has been removed? That we are at the mercy of human beings whose only concern is themselves... No jobs, no health care, high prices at the grocery store and the gas pump... drought in places, deluge in others... hurricanes and tornadoes and earthquakes galore... Is there anybody here besides me (I'm 50 years old) that remembers the way it used to be? How different it was, when God's protective hedge kept the greedy at bay, when gentle weather cycles were the norm, when perversions and peep shows were forced into hiding and the air was fresh and free of them by and large... Dr. Chuck Missler is on record as saying that he believes we are in an abandonment judgment of God (like Samson at Delila's house on the third date) and that the passage he preached and taught so often on is no longer even an option.... 2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV) 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Yes, the lines are clearly drawn in the sand. And people are going to get even more aggressive and vicious in posts and in line at the store or at work or at Church... No one could really imagine how a time like this would be... but we should awaken ourselves to the facts and if only for ourselves repent and pray the Lord has mercy on us!!!

And actually it is of the last 1/2 of the 70th Week of Daniel. The first half will see Israel in prominence. Daniel 9:27 (KJV) 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Many have taken extreme license interpreting this passage. Leaving it in its context... which other times Daniel refers to the covenant it is in reference to the Mosaic Law the Old Covenant. Daniel 9:4 (KJV) 4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; Etc. Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV) 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. The Jews who reject Jesus reject the New Covenant. The false messiah who will come claiming to be the genuine article will affirm the Old Covenant. If you think about it, how else could the Jews be mislead by this fellow unless the "anti-christ" is actually the false messiah (whom they will believe in the real Messiah)? You think a Gentile world leader will do what the Jewish Son of God could not do by way of convincing them? There are other hints... Matthew 24:20 (KJV) 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Shomer Shabbos has never taken precedent over fight nor flight in all Jewish history. In fact on Shabbat marching round Jericho they marched six times more than the rest of the week. So Jesus' warning was of a Jewish State where Sabbath Law is enforced because they believe all is well. And as the false messiah makes inroads towards the holy of holies... do you really think the Jewish people will think everything is peachy unless they are convinced he is their Jewish Messiah? **Some have interpreted my posts to be replacement theology. They are not. Or that I am somehow against the Jews. I am not. My heart breaks along with the Lord's that his own people do not know their Messiah or their God in Jesus Christ (Y'shua HaMoshiakh). I pray for the peace of Jerusalem every day (the salvation of Jews). I have learned how to witness Jesus using only the Old Testament with the specific objective of witnessing to Jewish people which I have done for many years now. I have also been on many Messianic boards over the past 15 years (and am internet pals with Jews for Jesus founder Martin (Moishe) Rosen. Maybe this knowledge will help my posts to be better received knowing I want what's best for Yisro'el... sadly the Bible indicates when everything else has been tried and as the last of the last resorts they cry out to Y'shua HaMoshiakh Save Now (Hosha Nah!) Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord baruk habba b'shem 'donoi. And then the Lord Jesus will come and rescue those few Jews who survive to that point.

dupe

Actually this speaks of the time of the end... in the 70th Week of Daniel... Revelation 11:2 (NASB95) 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

dupe

dupe

One of the things that used to puzzle me was how the three eschatology camps could all quote scripture to support their opposing views. That would seem to indicate scripture is contradictory of itself. And the longer I live and study the Bible the more convinced I am that it is not in contradiction of itself at all. So then it occurred to me it is the 70th Week of Daniel that was misunderstood by all three camps. It is a period of seven years. But it is not a seven year period of one tribulation. The Bible prophetically divides this time period into two 3 1/2 years tribulations. time, times, 1/2 a time (one year + two years + 1/2 year = 3 1/2 years) 42 months = 3 1/2 years 1260 days = 31/2 years Revelation 11:3 (NASB95) 3

I mean, we all go through the phases of faith where in the beginning we are just so in love with truth and so glad we found him and we want the whole world to join in this discovery and be saved from hell... then we butt heads with those who no matter what is said or done only want to oppose God. And if we do it for enough years one day it dawns on us to simply let them alone. Fight them in their efforts to take over the marketplace of ideas and government and the youths through education... but to not weary ourselves with trying to prove their religion wrong. Offer them the way of life and when they refuse... move on. I know this sounds cynical as can be, but it affords us a peace of mind and an opportunity to witness to receptive hearts. I do not recall Jesus or the Apostles begging unbelievers year after year to see the light. If the Holy Spirit places someone on your heart, that's different. That's obeying a divine command. And most often it is someone loved. But there comes a point in time when it is a matter of allowing a satanic diversion or stall tactic to so entangle you that you are of little use or effect for the Kingdom. Evolution (macro-evolution) is a fairytale for unbelievers.

Never underestimate the religious fervor of humanity... even in the religion of atheism. Religion is often times a label hung around the neck of Christianity. And unjustly so. For at its core are the anti-religious efforts of Almighty God to have a real relationship with his people and not a religion. Religion is fraught with superstition, blind faith, fanaticism, and control freaks. Sadly, there are some of these foisted upon the moniker of the followers of Christ... and the Bible warned against this very thing from the struggles of the disciples to be the greatest to the itching ears of the laity in the last days who do not tolerate sound doctrine... But do not be surprised by the blind faith of those who hope to disprove God in bad theories and mafia-like strangleholds on science, education, and the media... they just don't want to be told that they are not God...