Ephesians__6_24

Would the Revelation 7:1-4 "[sealing] the servants of our God in their foreheads" be speaking about something different than the mark in Revelation 20:4 ? Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Hmm... Perhaps: i) There were 7000 Jews reserved at a previous time (Romans 11:1-4), ii) There are at this present time the remnant of grace (Romans 11:5) (the 'remnant' being: Jews & Gentiles, the Body of Christ - Ephesians 5:30, Ephesians 2:12-22, Ephesians 3:6), and iii) There will be a remnant of the Jews (144 000) in the tribulation period (Revelation 7:3)... And Revelation 7 is speaking about "shortening those days" "for the elect's [only the Jew's ?] sake" [Mark 13:19-20] - (I still have the question concerning Gentiles saved in the tribulation). Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. A question arises out of Revelation 7:3: - When do the "servants of our God" get "sealed... ...in their foreheads" ? - What is the "seal... ...in their foreheads" (Revelation 7:3) speaking of? - If the "seal" (In Revelation 7:3) is speaking about when "the Deliverer" comes and "[turns] away ungodliness from Jacob" (Romans 11:26) Then; - Is there a "wrath" for the earth after the tribulation (seeing as Revelation 7:3 states not to Hurt the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.)?

The 144 000... Romans 11:1-5 Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. "at this present time"... - Is this referring to the total number of all historical and present and future (Lord-willing) saved Jews? As God is the God of Abraham (living) and all live unto him? Luke 20:37-38 Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Those who are in the grave... but are "living"... could this be what the 144 000 is referring to? and Romans 11:5 ---> "at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace" Revelation 7 Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Is verse 9 referring to Gentiles and Jews of the church, and also Gentiles which are saved after the rapture of the church? - If this is referring to Gentiles which are saved after the rapture of the church... where else in scripture does it speak of this? - Who specifically is verse 9 referring to? a) The Church (Jews and Gentiles) c) The Tribulation Jews and the Gentiles d) Just strictly Gentiles (and if so) i) Gentiles of the church, or ii) Gentiles of the tribulation, or iii) both? Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. FresnoJoe: - Is Revelation 7:9 referring to Jews and not Gentiles? Hm.. would Joel 2:32 "and in the remnant" be stating that Revelation 7:9 is referring to the Gentiles and Jews? (Which Gentiles though, those of the church? or those of the tribulation? are there Tribulation Gentiles?) (and which Jews? all Jews that children of promise - Romans 9:6-8 - (and would "all Israel" Romans 11:26 be referring to the "children of promise" Romans 9:6-8?) - What time is Joel 2:32 speaking of?

Revelation 7 Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. - Is there any scripture that states that there will be Gentile Converts from within the Tribulation period? - Could verse 9 be referring to the 144 000 Jews and the Jews and Gentiles of the church who were raptured? - Verse 14 indicates that "These are they which came out of great tribulation" - Would this "coming out of the great tribulation" line up with the rapture of the church and the Daniel 12:1 Jews? Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. - How are the Jews "delivered" (Daniel 12:1) ?

I am not sure what you mean by "Pentecostal Movement", but: Would you say that Tongues Prophecies Knowledge ceased when the Word of God was fully written? View Thread on "Tongues Prophecies Knowledge - When that which is perfect is come..."

Proverbs 24:21-22 Prov 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change: Prov 24:22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both? Ecclesiastes 5:8 Eccl 5:8 If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they. Ecclesiastes 10:20 Eccl 10:20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

Being a woman had nothing to do with the book being rejected from the cannon. We have the books of Ruth and Esther. I heard that the reason Marry been kicked out was bcs peter and some other disciples unhappy for Marry’s great reputation made them lower.(news from the BBC/or Discovery documentary) 1 Timothy 1:3-5 1Tim 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1Tim 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

- If "Scriptures are they which testify of Christ... John 5:39" - Does 2 Maccabees 12:46 testify of Christ? 2 Maccabees 12 {12:39} And the following day, Judas came with his own, in order to take away the bodies of the fallen, and to place them in the sepulchers of their fathers with their ancestors. {12:40} But they found, under the tunics of the slain, some of the treasures of the idols that were near Jamnia, which were prohibited to Jews by the law. Therefore, it became manifest that it was for this reason that they had been overthrown. {12:41} And so, they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had made hidden things manifest. {12:42} So then, turning themselves to prayers, they petitioned him that the offense which had been done would be delivered into oblivion. And truly, the very strong Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves without sin, since they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sins of those who were struck down. {12:43} And, calling an assembly, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem, to be offered for a sacrifice for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously about the resurrection, {12:44} (for if he had not hoped that those who had fallen would be resurrected, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) {12:45} and because he considered that those who had fallen asleep with piety had great grace stored up for them. {12:46} Therefore, it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins. - Luke 16:26 is "the doctrine of Christ", and states that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence: Luke 16:19-31 Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Therefore, is it "a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins." (2 Maccabees 12:46) ? - Is 2 Maccabees 12:46 scripture? does it testify of Christ? [1 Timothy 1:3-5]

Are you relating the Angel of YHWH to receiving worship because of Genesis 19:1? Genesis 18 never says the word "angel" (as to whether or not they were men and/or angels and/or the LORD, we would have to study that to find out). Is Genesis 19:1 referring to God's son? (It says "angels" - plural) Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; - Lot bowed himself with his face toward the ground... are you wondering if this is "worship" ? - Genesis 23:7 indicates that "Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth." - Did Abraham worship the children of Heth? - As to verse 18 of Genesis 19... 18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD: - It states in Malachi that the priest is the messenger of the LORD... (Malachi 2:7) - So could Lot saying unto the two angels "my LORD" mean that the angels were the messengers of the LORD and speaking for The LORD?

Well; Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. "equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" - Would this indicate that the saints' resurrected bodies are equal unto the angels? - Or would this passage indicate that resurrected saints are equal unto the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects. - A note to make: it says: "for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." - Could the "and" be relating the "equal unto the angels" to the "children of God" (so that saints are equal unto the angels only in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects) or could the "and" be simply stating another truth, and thus, separating the two phrases (so that the saints are equal unto the angels of God in every way)? - Will saints have an equal body to the angels... - Do angels have "bodies"...... - If God makes his angels spirits (Psalm 104:4), and - spirits have not flesh and bones (Luke 24:37-39) as the Lord had (which is also our resurrected spiritual body - 1 Corinthians 15:44) --- indicating that angels which are spirits do not have a spiritual body... - Then resurrected saints would not have bodies equal unto the angels... - If this is true, Luke 20:35-36 must mean that the resurrected saints are only equal to the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects. - The passage that needs explaining then is 1 Corinthians 15:40--- 1 Corinthians 15:35-47 1Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 1Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 1Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. ___________________________________________________ Verse 40. The Greek word translated to English "celestial" comes from the same word used in Hebrews 11:12 "...the stars of the sky in multitude..." (indicating visible heavens...) (but in Hebrew... there is the signification that heaven is: the "holy habitation" of the LORD - Deuteronomy 26:15, and it is asked that the LORD would "look down from" His "holy habitation") - It is stated that "no man hath seen the Father" John 6:46 - Would verse 40 indicate that angels have celestial bodies? - (Perhaps there is a difference between celestial and spiritual bodies...) ___________________________________________________ 1Cor 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. The Third Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-4) 2Cor 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 2Cor 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 2Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. What is "the third heaven" ? - And why does Paul indicate "(whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)" and "he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."... Could the following be a correct interpretation: First: clouds (air) Second: stars (sky) Third: Spiritual

Psalm 19:1-10 Ps 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Ps 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. Ps 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Ps 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Ps 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. Ps 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Ps 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Ps 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Psalm 19 indicates that God's word was spoken by angels (Hebrews 2:2), and that There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. Psalm 12:6-7 indicates that The LORD shalt keep his words, and He shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Proverbs 20:24 indicates that The LORD used men to keep his words (Romans 3:1-2 - The LORD used Jews to keep His words.). Scriptures are they which testify of Christ... John 5:39 Testify (from Webster's dictionary): - to give testimony for the purpose of communicating to others a knowledge of something not known to them. - To affirm or declare solemnly for the purpose of establishing a fact. It is stated in 2 John 1:9 that Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Genesis 3:1 - Satan said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? - Satan is behind "wresting" scriptures (2 Peter 3:16). 2 Peter 3:16 indicates that Peter claimed that Pauline epistles were/are scripture. _____________________________________________________________________________ - That "Intertestamental Period... Could Amos 8 be speaking about the "Intertestamental Period"? Amos 8:11-14 Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. Amos 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. Amos 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again. ...Therefore if Amos 8 is speaking about that Intertestamental period, anything written in that intertestamental period is not the word of the LORD, as it is stated that "they shall not find the word of the LORD" (verse 12). Does the Apocrypha state that there was no prophet in the Intertestemental period? 1 Maccabees 4 {4:41} Then Judas numbered men to fight against those who were in the stronghold, until they had cleansed the holy places. {4:42} And he chose priests without blemish, whose will held to the law of God. {4:43} And they cleansed the holy places, and they took away the stones of defilement to an unclean place. {4:44} And he considered the altar of holocausts, which had been profaned, as to what he should do with it. {4:45} And a good counsel fell upon them, to destroy it, lest it might become a reproach to them, because the Gentiles had defiled it; so they demolished it. {4:46} And they stored the stones in the mountain house, in a fitting place, until there should come a prophet, who would provide an answer about these. {4:47} Then they took whole stones, according to the law, and they built a new altar, according to that which was before. {4:48} And they rebuilt the holy places and the things that were in the inner parts of the temple, and they sanctified the temple and the courts. 1 Maccabees 9 {9:23} And it happened that, after the death of Judas, the iniquitous began to emerge in all the parts of Israel, and they began to encourage all those who worked iniquity. {9:24} In those days, there occurred a very great famine, and the entire region handed itself over to Bacchides. {9:25} And Bacchides chose impious men, and he appointed them as rulers of the region. {9:26} And they sought out and persecuted the friends of Judas, and they led them to Bacchides, and he took vengeance on them and abused them. {9:27} And there occurred a great tribulation in Israel, such as had never been, since the day that there was no prophet seen in Israel. {9:28} And all the friends of Judas gathered together, and they said to Jonathan: {9:29} “Since your brother Judas has fallen away, there is not a man like him to go forth against our enemies, against Bacchides and those who are the enemies of our nation. {9:30} And so now, we have chosen you in his place, on this day, to be our leader and commander in order to wage our wars.” {9:31} And so, at that time, Jonathan took upon himself the leadership, and he rose up in the place of Judas, his brother. 1 Maccabees 14 {14:35} And the people saw the acts of Simon, and the glory that he intended to bring to his nation, and they made him their commander and first priest, because he had done all these things, and because of the justice and faith that he maintained for his nation, and because he sought to exalt his people by all means. {14:36} And in his days, there was prosperity by his hands, so that the Gentiles were taken away from their country, and also those who were in the city of David, in Jerusalem, in the stronghold, from which they went out and contaminated all the places that were around the sanctuary, and from which they brought a great scourging against chastity. {14:37} And he placed in it Jewish men, as a means of protection for the region and the city, and he raised the walls of Jerusalem. {14:38} And king Demetrius confirmed him in the high priesthood. {14:39} According to these things, he made him his friend, and he glorified him with great glory. {14:40} For he heard that the Romans had called the Jews their friends, and associates, and brothers, and that they received the ambassadors of Simon with glory, {14:41} and that the Jews and their priests had consented that he should be their governor and high priest unceasingly, until there should arise a faithful prophet, {14:42} and that he should be the commander over them, and that he should take care of the sanctuary, and that he should appoint foremen over their works, and over the country, and over the weapons, and over the strongholds, {14:43} and that he should take care of the holy places, and that he should be obeyed by all, and that all the records in the country should be recorded in his name, and that he should be clothed in purple and gold, {14:44} and that it should not be lawful for any of the people or the priests to make void any of these things, nor to contradict things that are said by him, nor to call together an assembly in the country without him, nor to be clothed in purple, nor to use a clasp of gold. (^ Aggeus=Haggai)

2Pet 3:16 As also in all [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16 indicates that the Pauline epistles are scriptures... Peter stated this when he was alive... Jesus states: scriptures are they which testify of Me. John 5:39

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? The name of God's Son was not revealed until the angel named the child "JESUS" Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. Luke 1:30-31 Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. Ephesians 3:9 ... the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Where is God's Son called the angel of YHWH? ____________________________________________________________________ Matthew 28 indicates that the Angel of the Lord is not Jesus Matthew 28:1-9 Matt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Matt 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matt 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: Matt 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. Matt 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. Matt 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. Matt 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. Matt 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. Matt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost are one... 1 John 5:7 "'elohiym" 'elohiym is a noun masculine plural - Thayer Genesis 1:26 "God ('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." "JEHOVAH"... Exodus 6:2-8 Exod 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: Exod 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exod 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. Exod 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. Exod 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD (JEHOVAH), and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: Exod 6:7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD (JEHOVAH) your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. Exod 6:8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD. Exodus 3:13-15 Exod 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? Exod 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exod 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. - Could the name of God be different for the church (Christ's body)? "Father" Ephesians 5:29-30 Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. - Jesus said: "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." Matthew 6:9 John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Hebrews 2:11-15 Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Is Zechariah 14:3-4 speaking of Christ? Zechariah 14:3-4 Zech 14:3 Then shall the LORD (JEHOVAH) go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. Zech 14:4 And his (JEHOVAH's?) feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Is verse 4 indicating that JEHOVAH has feet? Could the Father be JEHOVAH... and the Father and Jesus are one ? (John 10:30, 1 Timothy 3:16) (Romans 3:29 - God is the God of Jews and Gentiles) Ephesians 2:11-14 Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Ephesians 3:4-6 ...the mystery of Christ Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Zechariah 5:1-9 Zech 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. Zech 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Zech 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. Zech 5:4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. Zech 5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. Zech 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. Zech 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. Zech 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Zech 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Zech 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? Zech 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base. - Is verse 9 referring to female angels

Jesus is Lord and, 1 Timothy 3:16 indicates that God was manifest in the flesh... John 10:30 indicates that Jesus and His Father are one.

Well; Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. "equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" - Would this indicate that the saints' resurrected bodies are equal unto the angels? - Or would this passage indicate that resurrected saints are equal unto the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects. - A note to make: it says: "for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." - Could the "and" be relating the "equal unto the angels" to the "children of God" (so that saints are equal unto the angels only in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects) or could the "and" be simply stating another truth, and thus, separating the two phrases (so that the saints are equal unto the angels of God in every way)? - Will saints have an equal body to the angels... - Do angels have "bodies"...... - If God makes his angels spirits (Psalm 104:4), and - spirits have not flesh and bones (Luke 24:37-39) as the Lord had (which is also our resurrected spiritual body - 1 Corinthians 15:44) --- indicating that angels which are spirits do not have a spiritual body... - Then resurrected saints would not have bodies equal unto the angels... - If this is true, Luke 20:35-36 must mean that the resurrected saints are only equal to the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects. - The passage that needs explaining then is 1 Corinthians 15:40--- 1 Corinthians 15:35-47 1Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 1Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 1Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. ___________________________________________________ Verse 40. The Greek word translated to English "celestial" comes from the same word used in Hebrews 11:12 "...the stars of the sky in multitude..." (indicating visible heavens...) (but in Hebrew... there is the signification that heaven is: the "holy habitation" of the LORD - Deuteronomy 26:15, and it is asked that the LORD would "look down from" His "holy habitation") - It is stated that "no man hath seen the Father" John 6:46 - Would verse 40 indicate that angels have celestial bodies? - (Perhaps there is a difference between celestial and spiritual bodies...) ___________________________________________________ 1Cor 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The question about female evil angels, if they were created female and then became the devils angels: - Here is some scripture: Isaiah 2:7-9 7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots: 8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made: 9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not. and Job 26:5-6 5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof. 6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering. Hmm.. were the Diana and Ashtoreth (goddesses) created female by human hands? "the work of their own hands" - Isaiah 2:8 - And when God created the Angels (Genesis 2:1) he didn't create female angels? - If Luke 20:36 is not referring to how saints bodies will be equal to angels bodies (more on angels and bodies below), and Luke 20:36 is rather referring to how that saints will be "equal" unto the angels in that angels are children of God, then finding out if there are female angels is of no value. A question arises: - Do angels have bodies? God makes his angels spirits, and spirits don't have "flesh and bones"... But then: if angels don't have "bodies", then what is 1 Corinthians 15 speaking about? (this question is asked in another thread that I posted: click here to be redirected) (Hm, that "So also" could be significant...) (To clarify the line of thought: If the "celestial bodies" in verse 40 ^ is referring to the saints' body and not the angels... then that would be a no to angels (whom God makes "spirits" - Psalm 104:4) having "flesh and bones" (as a spirit does not have "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)) ) (...I wonder if the following answers my question):

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Jacob and Christ Jacob=Figure of Christ. is the link to the Thread. Copy+Pasted from thread: ____________________________________________________________________________________________ This post has been copied and pasted from my previous post on the in the Eschatology room... _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Jacob And Christ [Hosea 12:4 indicates that this "man" was an "angel".] Now... The Angel did not prevail against Jacob... is this possible? Ecclesiastes 6:10 That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he [The Man?] contend with him that is mightier than he. Angels are "...greater in power and might..." (2 Peter 2:11) Could Jacob be a figure of Christ? Christ: Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Yet... Christ was "made a little lower than the angels" Hebrews 2:9 [1 Timothy 3:16 - "...great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."] Why did the Angel name Jacob "Israel" ? --- "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28 Christ: "...a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Christ is the "mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5) - Christ prevailed: Colossians 2:15 "having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Matthew 27:62-65; 28:6, 1 Corinthians 15:3-8 - Christ "spoiled principalities and powers... He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.") More on Jacob and Christ (specifically the wife of Jacob and the wife of Christ the Church...) Hosea 12 12And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. [Hebrews 13:20 - Jesus is "...that great shepherd of the sheep"] - Jacob fled from Esau into "the country of Syria" ... and served for a wife... (which is where your quote [the quote of "wordsower" that is found below] fits in) - Jacob fleeing from Esau to get the Jews first (Leah) but then The Church (Rachel)... - Would Jacob fleeing from Esau be a figure of Christ and men? (John 1:1-3; 10-13) - How that "the world was made by [Christ], and the world knew him not" (John 1:10) - However... Jacob kept sheep for a wife (he kept sheep first...) - Did Christ keep sheep first then get his wife? _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The quote that I quoted in the original Post was the following: Also, Another figure... - The Jews took on the name of Jacob (Israel - Israelites) - Christians take on the name of Christ (Acts 11:26, 1 Peter 4:16), Who is the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29). Now... Is there any siginificance of: "[The Angel] touched the hollow of [Jacob's] thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him." - Genesis 32:25 ? Could this be a figure of Christ's side being pierced (John 19:34)? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Christ has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than the angels... Hmmm.... What is that "name" that is more excellent than the angels? Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. Philippians 2 describes that "name" that is more excellent than the angels... Philippians 2 6[Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Verse 10 indicates "things in heaven" should bow at the name of Jesus... ______________________________________________________________________________________ What time did the church become the bride of Christ? When The Holy Ghost was given? Mark 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things. John 7 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 40Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.

Genesis 32:25 The angel saw that he didn't prevail against Jacob. Hosea 12:4 - indicates that Jacob "had power over the angel, and prevailed" - Whether or not the angel "let" Jacob prevail... Jacob prevailed nonetheless, as it states that in Hosea 12:4

There is another scripture, that Jesus quotes... John 10 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. the Passage that Jesus quoted from: Psalm 82 1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. verse 6 indicates that the gods are "children of the most High." Could Jesus be talking about men, or angels, when it says "gods"? - Jesus specifies that "the word of God came" to the "gods" (John 10:35) The angel said he was a fellowservant to John... Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. "fellowservant" G4889 σύνδουλος sundoulos Thayer Definition: 1) a fellow servant, one who serves the same master with another 1a) the associate of a servant (or slave) 1b) one who with others serves (ministers to) a king 1c) a colleague of one who is Christ’s servant in publishing the gospel 1d) one who with others acknowledges the same Lord, Jesus, and obeys his commands 1e) one who with others is subject to the same divine authority in the Messianic economy 1e1) of angels as the fellow servants of Christians Psalm 82:7 indicates to these "gods" whom the word of God came that they "shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." Discourse: Could it be: angel>spirit>man ? (God makes his angels spirits... Psalm 104:4) (When we speak, it is the spirit that we are speaking from... 1 John 4:1, 2 Corinthians 11:4, Luke 4:33) "what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?" 1 Corinthians 2:11 _______________________________________________________________________________ Discourse on the spirits in men. Proverbs 25:28 speaks about ruling your own spirit and that "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls." Ecclesiastes 7:9 states not to be "hasty in thy spirit to be angry" And again... Proverbs 14:29 - "He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly." Ephesians 6:12 states that "...we wrestle... ...against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 4:23 indicates "the spirit of your mind" (and to be "renewed in the spirit of your mind") Proverbs 16:2 - All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits. - Therefore... "be renewed in the spirit of your mind..." (Ephesians 4:23) - "...be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2) Hebrews 12:9 indicates that The Father is The "Father of spirits", Numbers 27:16 indicates that The LORD is "the God of the spirits of all flesh" Numbers 14:24 indicates that Caleb "had another spirit with him..." "...and has followed the LORD fully." A list of spirits: Zechariah 12:10 indicates "the spirit of grace and of supplications" [Hebrews 10:29 indicates "the Spirit of grace"] 1 Peter 4:14 indicates "the spirit of glory" 1 Corinthians 4:21 and Galatians 6:1 indicate "the spirit of meekness" 2 Corinthians 4:13 indicates the "spirit of faith" Ephesians 1:17 indicates "the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of [the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory]" 2 Timothy 1:7 indicates that "God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." Revelation 19:10 states that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." 1 John 4:6 indicates "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." Isaiah 29:10 indicates "the spirit of deep sleep" Romans 11:7-8 indicates "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day." Hosea 4:12 indicates "the spirit of whoredoms" Numbers 5:14 indicates a "spirit of jealousy" Luke 4:33 indicates "in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil" Luke 13:11 indicates "there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity" Acts 16:16 indicates "a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination" 1 John 4:3 indicates "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist" End of discourse on the spirits in men. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Consider: Luke 4:33 And: Numbers 33:50-51, 55, Joshua 23:2 12-13, Judges 2:3 Verse 33... the man had a spirit of an unclean devil. (working backwards--in this verse it is: man<spirit<angel. Remember above it was asked if it could be that: angel>spirit>man?) [They don't say "devil", they say "unclean spirits"], ["out" indicates that the "unclean spirit" was "in" the man...] - And now we will Consider Numbers 33:50-51, 55, Joshua 23:2 12-13, Judges 2:3 Numbers 33 50 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying, 51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan; 55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Joshua 23 2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age: - Joshua said the following unto "all Israel"... Joshua 23 continued 12 Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you: 13 Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. Now, the angel of the LORD (Compare the corresponding colours). Was it the angel of the LORD that made them go up out of Egypt? or Moses? Could it be: angel>spirit>man ? - The angel of the LORD's voice, or Joshua/Moses' voice? Could it be: angel>spirit>man ? - What does all of this have to do with Psalm 82? Is Psalm 82 speaking about "higher powers"? Romans 13 1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. [Psalm 103:20 - angels hearken to the voice of the LORD's word.] 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Psalm 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. remember... The angel said he was a fellowservant to John... Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Psalm 82 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. Psalm 82:5... "the foundations of the earth" are referring to the "gods"... Psalm 82:5 is indicating that "the foundations of the earth are out of course" when the gods "know not" neither "understand"... and "walk on in darkness". - if the gods judge unjustly and if they accept the persons of the wicked, if they don't defend the poor and fatherless, and don't do justice to the afflicted and needy, and if they don't deliver the poor and needy and if they don't rid them out of the hand of the wicked... then "the foundations of the earth are out of course". 1 Samuel 2:7-8 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. Is Christ the Pillar of the Earth? "The princes or governors of the earth, which are called the corners, or corner-stones, of a land or people, Judges 20:2 1Samuel 14:38 Zephaniah 3:6, and are fitly called pillars, because they uphold the world, and keep it from sinking into confusion." - Poole's commentary Judges 20:2 - And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword. 1Samuel 14:38 - And Saul said, Draw ye near hither, all the chief of the people: and know and see wherein this sin hath been this day. Zephaniah 3:6 - I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant. 1 Kings 4:24-25 For he had dominion over all the region on this side the river, from Tiphsah even to Azzah, over all the kings on this side the river: and he had peace on all sides round about him. And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon. Proverbs 24:24 - "He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him" Revelation 3:12 - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Proverbs 8:15-16 - By [Christ] kings reign, and princes decree justice. By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. Is a minister of the LORD an angel? 2 Samuel 24 indicates that the angel of the LORD ministered the LORD's judgment... 2 Samuel 24 15So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. 16And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite. 17And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house. (verse 17 ^ indicates that the angel smote the people). --- Will the saints minister God's judgment I wonder? Is Psalm 82 speaking about the gods as pastors (which are "ministers" of God?) - 1 Thessalonians 3:2 - Timotheus is called a minister of God. - Could it be that the Angels will minister God's judgment on the world (vengeance)... and the pastors and elders ("gods") are to judge those that are inside the church (like it says in Psalm 82, but don't take vengeance, and rather leave vengeance to God)? - 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. 2 Thessalonians 1 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Will angels take vengeance on them that know not God, or the Lord Jesus? (or both?) Isaiah 37:36 indicates that "the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses." Matthew 13 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 1 Peter 4 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Is Psalm 82 speaking about "gods" also in the regard of "pastors" ? Revelation 2:1 "the angel of the church of Ephesus" Revelation 2:8 "the angel of the church in Smyrna" Revelation 2:12 "the angel of the church in Pergamos" Revelation 2:18 "the angel of the church in Thyatira" Revelation 3:1 "the angel of the church in Sardis" Revelation 3:7 "the angel of the church in Philadelphia" Revelation 3:14 "the angel of the church of the Laodiceans" Every time it says angel in the verse above ^, the Greek word is "ἄγγελος", (transliterated "aggelos"): G32 ἄγγελος aggelos ang'-el-os Strong's: "From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger." Thayer: "a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God " - It says in Ecclesiastes 5:6 "angel" Ecclesiastes 5 1Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil. 2Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few. 3For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words. 4When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. Angels are greater in power and in might... 2 Peter 2:11 David (king) "is wise, according to the wisdom of an angel of God, to know all things that are in the earth." 2 Samuel 14:20 "is as an angel of God" 2 Samuel 19:27 "for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and bad" 2 Samuel 14:17 could the government of this age be a figure of heavenly things? "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" Psalm 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What time did the church become the bride of Christ? When The Holy Ghost was given? Mark 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things. John 7 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 40Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.

We have a earthly body that is made up of flesh and bones. It was God who made our fleshly bodies from the dust of the ground. Because man fell in the garden death was passed down to all of mankind from that time forward. Our earthly bodies will return to dust. Christ also had a fleshly body that was also subject to death and the grave. But Christ conquered death, hell and the grave. Christ was resurrected as the grave could not hold him. He was sown in a natural body but he was raised a spiritual body which is made up of flesh and bones as well. Our spiritual bodies will be the same just as Jesus was raised from the dead or the grave we also will have a spiritual body. Their is a difference between a earthly flesh and bone body and a spiritual flesh and bone body. That difference is that the spiritual body will never continually grow old like the earthly body. The spiritual body will never be subject to death, disease, sorrow, pain nor crying. Our spiritual flesh and bone bodies will live forever not subject to the woes of this life. The saints will have the same resurrected body as Jesus did. Our bodies will also be glorified with Christ. ***KEY......Jesus was "NOT" a "SPIRIT". Jesus was raised a Spiritual "Body" with "flesh" and "bones". A spirit "doesn't" have flesh and bones. However a body "does" have flesh and bones. I believe in the "bodily" resurrection of Christ. Jesus was raised with a "spiritual body" with "flesh and bones". ______________________________________________________________________________ Another question... But saints will be equal unto the angels... Luke 20:36 Luke 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. - God makes his angels spirits...(Psalm 104:4) a spirit "hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39) so if the resurrected saints are equal unto the angels...(angels being spirits) then wouldn't this make the resurrected saints unequal to the angels (in that: saints will have spiritual bodies... but angels are spirits and therefore "hath not flesh and bones")? - Or do Angels have spiritual bodies? (Psalm 104:4 says that God makes his angels spirits...) - 1 Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also celestial bodies" - Could this be referring to Angels? (Angels having celestial bodies) (or would 1 Corinthians 15:40 be talking about the resurrection "celestial body" of the saints)? (Hm, that "So also" could be significant...) (To clarify the line of thought: If the "celestial bodies" in verse 40 ^ is referring to the saints' body and not the angels... then that would be a no to angels (whom God makes "spirits" - Psalm 104:4) having "flesh and bones" (as a spirit does not have "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)) ) (...I wonder if the following answers my question): - Or could it be that Jesus was saying that the Angels are the children of God... and in the same way, the resurrected saints will be equal to the angels in that regard...(and so, resurrected saints being equal unto the angels is not relating to the resurrected body, but to the "children of God" aspect) Daniel 12:3 they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. ...the saints (they that turn many to righteousness) as the stars for ever and ever... Matthew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.