douggg

Marv, the wise ones fled as soon as they saw the AoD setup on the temple mount. Them who did not flee right away, will have had their path to escape blocked by the beast-king and are the ones in Revelation 12:17 who get persecuted. The ones who escape being held hostages will be Jews.

Going into exile, going into captivity (kjv), is just a way of saying that the will be held as hostages by the beast-king and false prophet in hopes of keeping Jesus from executing judgment on them (ie. on the beast-king, false prophet, and Satan) and the rest of the wicked. The armies that will have begun to assemble at Armageddon several weeks earlier to prepare to make war on Jesus, when they descend to Jerusalem will rape and pillage in verse 2.

The Jews are not fleeing "from" Jesus. That is not in the text. The Jews held as hostages in verse 2 will flee through the valley to safety, escaping being held as hostages. Zechariah is listing a series of things that will happen that day. Zechariah is not saying that they are fleeing from Jesus. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The AoD setup takes place 1335 days before the 2nd coming. Since the AoD is the statue image of the beast, the Antichrist becomes the beast before then. day1............... Antichrist becomes the beast.....AoD setup..............1335 days.......2nd coming The Jews begin to flee when the AoD statue image of the beast is setup 1335 days before the 2nd coming. day 1...........Antichrist becomes the beast.... the beast kills the two witnesses day 1260. 3 1/2 days later the two witnesses return to life, ascend to heaven. Followed by that same day a great earthquake hits Jerusalem. Leaving 1256 days left in the 2520 day 7 years. The 1256 days represent nominally 42 months - the rule time of the beast, no longer hampered by the departed from earth two witnesses. ---------------------------------- The 7th trumpet sounds and Satan cast down to earth. And indwells the statue image of the beast making it appear to come alive and speak, for a time, times, half time. Parallel to the nominal 42 months rule of the beast. People will be forced to worship the statue image or die. Those who worship the statue image will be unknowingly by worshipping the statue image will be worshipping Satan. They will not find out until the 2nd coming, when Jesus turns the statue image to ashes - exposing Satan in physical form. Revelation Man, what do you think becomes of the AoD statue image of the beast ?

Scott, I flooded you with a lot of information. Let's continue to watch the world and see how things develope.

At least in the case of the two separate events of the Ezekiel 38-39 and the final rebellion in Revelation 20:7-10.

I would suggest calling the Revelation 16:13-14, the Revelation 19:11-21, the Ezekiel 39:17-20, event - the Armageddon event. And the Revelation 20:7-10 event - the last rebellion event. If you do it like that, everyone will know what you mean I think.

The bible indicates one Armageddon, that of Revelation 16:13-16. The kings of the earth in those verses will be convinced by (1) the beast-king (2) the false prophet (3) Satan, to make war on Jesus to keep Him from executing judgment on them. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. --------------------------------------------- In Revelation 20:8-9, if you are trying to make that a second Armageddon, there is no biblical basis. Both the beast-king and the false prophet will be in the lake of fire, at the time the Revelation 20:8-9 event takes place.

Armageddon is the gathering of the armies of the world by the kings of the earth to make war on Jesus. Revelation 16:13-16. ----------------------------- The destruction of those armies is two part. Part 1: Jesus Himself will destroy the portion of those armies in Zechariah 14 which will be surrounding Jerusalem. Revelation 14:14-16, is Jesus destroying the armies surrounding Jerusalem. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Part 2: The portion of those armies filling up the rest of Israel, outside of the vicinity of Jerusalem, will be destroyed by an angel directed for that purpose. Revelation 14:17-20, is the angel destroying the armies outside of the vicinity of Jerusalem. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. ------------------------------------------------- Ezekiel 39:17-20 corresponds to Revelation 19:17-18. Please compare the two text. Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. 18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. 19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. 20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD. ---------------------- Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

If you are referring to the prophecy of Ezekiel 38/39, then we have the parable of the fig tree generation to know that the Gog/Magog event will happen soon, sometime before the end of 2030.

The way to be certain that Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 is not the same event as Ezekiel 38/39 is.... 1. Revelation 20 event is after Jesus has returned to this earth. 2. Ezekiel 38/39 Gog/Magog event is before Jesus returns to this earth.

The whole of Israel. Before Saul, God was the King of Israel, but the people demanded a king like the surrounding nations. btw, I want to correct myself, I left out Saul as the first King of Israel. I will go back and edit my post. ------------------------------------ That the people of Israel demanded a king over them like the surrounding nations is in 1Samuel12: 12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

The event in Revelation 20 does not allow for the activity that takes place in Ezekiel 38/39. Following the Revelation 20 event, the scene is followed by Satan cast into the lake of fire, and death and hell cast into the lake of fire, and then the great resurrection, simultaneous with the destruction of this current heaven and earth, followed by the Great White Throne judgment. Contrasting to in Ezekiel 38/39....7 months of burying the dead of Gog's army....7 years of burning the weapons....then another big war (Armageddon)....then Jesus returned to this present earth, speaking in verses 21-29.

There have actually been only three Kings of Israel (humanly speaking) historically. Both were anointed by a known prophetic. First was Saul by Samuel the prophet. Second was David by Samuel the prophet. Third, his son Solomon by Nathan the prophet. Following Solomon's death the nation of Israel divided into two kingdoms- north and south. ---------------------------------------- I agree that the current status of Israel is not that of a kingship. The current nation though, territorially speaking, north and south, has been reunited. Some say that the current parliamentary democracy with prime minister form of rule resembles the period that Israel was governed by Judges.

The same nations that make up the Ezekiel 38/39 pre Jesus return event will also participate in the last rebellion in Revelation 20. But the two passages, the one in Ezekiel 38/39 and the one at the end of the thousand years, are not referring to the same event. ------------------------------------- Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39 is 7 years before Jesus returns. In Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having return to this earth to rule over the nations. 21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. The Jews (Judaism) currently don't believe that Jesus is the LORD their God. But come Jesus's return, they will so believe.

One of the things I wrote was that the false prophet will anoint the person the King of Israel. The Jews (Judaism) believe that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by a "known" prophet. They also believe that Elijah the prophet will come and be a part of the establishment of the messianic age. The Jews (Judaism) set a place at their family dinner tables for Elijah every Passover, to symbolically demonstrate their belief regarding Elijah. Elijah back in his day, when he was battling with the prophets of Baal, called fire down from heaven in 1Kings18. The false prophet in Revelation 13:13 does a seemingly similar miracle of calling fire down from heaven. Therefore, it appears that the Jews will initially believe the false prophet person is Elijah, or at least the fulfillment of their belief regarding Elijah. ------------------------------------- Some people suspect the Yanuka, Rabbi Shlomo Ben Yeduah, may be the false prophet - remains to be seen. I have my eye on Zelensky of Ukraine as maybe the person who becomes the little horn > prince who shall come > the AntiChrist > the revealed man of sin > the beast. Both individuals, whoever they are, must make a showing before the end of 2030, going by the parable of the fig tree Jesus gave in Matthew 24 regarding His return. 1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037 as the not later than limit regarding His return. So minus 7 years for Daniel 9:27 to take place = not later than 2030 that Ezekiel 39 the Gog/Magog event must take place.

The word "delusion" is found one place in the kjv bible....in 2Thessalonians2:11 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: ---------------------------------- The lie will be the Antichrist's claim of having achieved God-hood in 2Thessalonains2:4. The strong delusion that God will send is that after the revealed man of sin is killed (Ezekiel 28:1-10) for his act, God in disdain for the person will bring the person back to life. --------------------------------- Briefly... Gog/Magog event, then the prince who shall come from north and west of Israel (Daniel 8:9) into the middle east and Israel. the Jews will at that time think he is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. The prince who shall come is then anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet, becoming the AntiChrist. he then confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required by Moses, Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Coinciding with the 7 years following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:9-10. A false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety begins. And the great falling away of 2Thessalonians 2:3 by Christians, who will depart Jesus, takes place, as they will be persuaded that the Antichrist is the true messiah. Three years, thereabouts, go by. Then the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act (Daniel 8:12-13) of going into the temple, claiming to have achieved God-hood, 2Thessalonains2:4. The big lie. The person is killed for his act, Ezekiel 28:1-10. God restores him back to life, Isaiah 14:18-20, the strong delusion that God sends. Them who believed the Antichrist's big lie initially will thus be reinforced to believing it even more.

Scott, for the Jews to embrace the person as their King of Israel messiah, he has to meet the Jewish paradigm. Being a Jew, I agree, is an ethic trait rather than a religious faith. Judaism though is the religious faith of the Jews (who have rejected Jesus). The messiah in context of what Jews (Judaism) believe will not be a "savior", as we Christians believe of Jesus. You can read this article about what the Jews (Judaism) believe regarding the mashiach (their term for the messiah) https://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach "The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page. "

Scott, Jesus was a Jew. Jesus was called the Christ. Pilate also acknowledged that Jesus was called Christ. To be the AntiChrist (i.e instead of and against Jesus the true Christ), the person must be a Jew. Christ was also associated with being the King of Israel. Mark 15:32. Matthew 27:42. Maitreya is a Buddist conceptual figure, a sort of messiah. He is not a Jew and is not someone that the Jews could embrace thinking that he is the King of Israel messiah that they are looking for. The end times prophecies in Daniel are seated on what the Jews, Israel, will experience in the end times. I would suggest that you start over, putting things in a Jewish context, and think about what could lead the Jews to mistakenly think for a while that the Antichrist is their long awaited messiah. Which Ezekiel 39 is in a Jewish context because it starts with the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel. Gog/Magog, then the 7 years verses 9-10, then Armageddon verses 17-20, then Jesus speaking in the text having returned to this earth verse 21-29. The events of Revelation 6-19 fit within that seven years.

Happy New Year to you, Charlie.

The prince who shall come "of the people who destroy the temple and city" will be the one who will confirm the covenant for seven years. The people who destroyed the temple and city were the Roman army So of out that military juggernaut, in the end times, the prince who shall come will arrive. Since the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, his arrival will be to Jerusalem leading a military group of the end times Roman Empire - i.e. the EU. Keep an eye on this guy... It will happen in the wake of the Gog/Magog event, with the prince who shall come with his EU army will be intended on keeping the peace in the region. That person will become the Antichrist that John indicated shall come.

Charlie, the teaching that Antichrist shall come was well known by first century Christians, as John indicated in 1John2:18. And that he would appear in the last days. "as ye have heard" indicates that they were well aware of a coming Antichrist person. That he is a singular person, John contrasted with there are already being many "antichrists". Those things in bible spoke by the apostle John are 1500 years before Ribera. So Ribera did not invent the end times futurist view. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. --------------------------------- The prince who shall come "of the people who destroy the temple and city" will be the one who will confirm the covenant for seven years. The people who destroyed the temple and city were the Roman army So of out that military juggernaut, in the end times, the prince who shall come will arrive. Since the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, his arrival will be to Jerusalem leading a military group of the end times Roman Empire - i.e. the EU. It will happen in the wake of the Gog/Magog event, with the prince who shall come with his army will be intended on keeping the peace in the region. That person will become the Antichrist that John indicated shall come.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah in J0hn 12:12-15. 4 days later, he was crucified. On a 483 year prophecy scale, that is essentially cutoff the same time he arrived. The 7 year 70th week remains and is in Ezekiel 39.

The proof with 100% certainty that there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week is Ezekiel 39 gives the framework of the 70th week. Gog/Magog event, then the 7 years in verses 9-10, then Armageddon event in verses 17-20, then Jesus Himself speaking in the text in verses 21-29 having returned to this earth.

I was not "debating". I was trying to give you some information that you may not have been aware of as to why the person who becomes the AntiChrist has to be Jew. And other information as to why the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty. And also why Ezekiel 39 establishes the framework for all end times events. Here is a timeline chart I made of that Ezekiel 39 framework. And a second chart of the filled in events. .