douggg

Mike you have a lot of misconceptions. I have over 50 years of intense study of end times events. I am 75 years old. Reading your posts, I think you have somewhat less. 1. There is no 3 1/2 year term in the bible. People use that term, but it must be taken in the general sense. And no, the time/times/half a time is not 3 1/2 years, but nominally 3 1/2 years. The 1260 days could be equated as exactly 3 1/2 years. The 42 months in Revelation is not exactly equal to 1260 days. I know mathematically yes, but the 42 months in those prophecies is actually 1256.5 days. 2. The confirming of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty, but the Mt. Sinai covenant. Confirmed as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, by having the law of Moses read to the nation of Israel from the place of God's choosing (currently thought of by the Jews as being the temple mount). Part of the problem is in our communications is that I have over 10,000 posts since 2004 discussing with the Jews (Judaism) what the believe at their sites. And very few Christians have that level of awareness of what the Jews (Judaism) believe and what they are looking for. 3. The abomination of desolation is not the Antichrist claiming to be God. The abomination of desolation will be a statue image of the person made as directed by the false prophet in Revelation 13 and placed on the temple mount. The act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4 is the transgression of desolation (from Daniel 8:12-13) - an act. Differently, the abomination of desolation is a thing, something "setup", Daniel 12:11-12.

Was Jesus a Jew, to be the Christ ? The AntiChrist has to be a Jew for the Jews to accept the person, thinking he is their messiah. When it will happen will be right after the Gog/Magog event. In Ezekiel 39, there is the Gog/Magog event, followed by 7 years in verses 9-10. Those 7 years are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27. The AntiChrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant (Daniel 9:27) for 7 years (based on a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:91-13 of all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year cycle). --------------------------- In Ezekiel 39... Gog/Magog.... then the 7 years.... then in verses 17-20, the Armageddon event.... in verses 21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth.

Mike, the premise that the Antichrist must be a Jew comes from the concept of what "Christ" means. Allow me to connect the dots. 1. "Christ" is a word based on Greek for messiah. John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 2. Christ = messiah = anointed. In biblical background in the history of Israel, the kings and priests were considered anointeds. "the" messiah is the one special anointed to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety. He must be descended from King David. The Jews (Judaism) believe that about "the" messiah. They are looking for that person. 3. In Matthew and Mark, "Christ" is associated with being that promised King of Israel. Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him. Matthew 25:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. Matthew 25:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 4. In John 5:43, Jesus (paraphrased) said that the Jews would reject him at their King but would receive another as their King... coming in his own name. Meaning someone that God did not send to be their king. John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5. "Anti", the prefix can mean either, or, or both - "instead of, against". In the case of the AntiChrist that person will be instead of Jesus (the rightful King of Israel messiah) and also against Jesus, the Son of God. ----------------------------------------- So when all those things are put together, the person has to be a Jew - someone the Jews would be willing to think that he is their King of Israel messiah. A couple of characteristics the Jews are looking for in the person (from Judaism101 site) is that... 1. he has to be great politician. 2. he has to have military ability - to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. Right now there is a such a person who I am keeping an eye on - Zelensky, a Jew, of Ukraine. Not for certain yet. But some things are starting to add up.

Mike, the ten kings do not give their kingdom oven to the person until he has become the beast. Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. We are not at that stage yet, because the ten kings rule with the beast for one hour, Revelation 17:12. The one hour is the 42 months of Revelation 13:1 when the ten horns (the ten kings) have their crowns. But the formation of the group of ten kings is probably close at hand. The group has to be established so that the little horn person can become over it. Look for that group to emerge out of the EU. The Roman Empire manifested in the end times. Revelation 17:10, the 7 kings are kings of the Julio-Claudian bloodline. 1. Julius Caesar 2. Augustus 3. Tiberius 4. Caligula 5. Claudius 6. Nero (historically, the last of the Julio Claudians) 7. little horn person, leader of the EU ten kings. a. then as the prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog event b. then as the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews... i.e. as the Antichrist c. then as the revealed man of sin d. then as the beast 8. the beast (the little horn person after he is killed and comes back to life as the beast-king, which the EU ten kings will rule with him for 42 months.) ---------------------------------- The person has to be a Jew and somewhere in his bloodline be descended from the Julio-Claudians. Or it could be that he just takes the title of Caesar when the EU ten hand the EU over to him to be dictator of it. He has to be a Jew in order to be anointed the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews, to become the Antichrist. --------------------------- Little horn - the role of being the leader over the group of ten EU leaders (before the 7 years begin). Antichrist - the role of being the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews (for most of the first half of the 7 years). Beast - the role of being the dictator of the EU for 42 months (of the second half of the 7 years). The ten EU leaders will rule with him.

verse 8:11 says the stopping of the daily sacrifice will be by the little horn, not the Jews. And the pope was not around at the time of Christ to stop the daily sacrifice, so it is not speaking about the pope either. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. Magnifying himself even to the prince of the host, and stopping the daily sacrifice, and committing the transgression of desolation will be the act in 2Thessalonians2:4 of the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieve God-hood... at the time of the end. The transgression of desolation act by the little horn has not taken place yet. But the 2300 days associated with little horn's transgression of desolation are time of the end according to the text of Daniel 8:17. Charlie, you are trying to put something into the past that still has not happened yet. You are trying place the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12 on the Jews. But it is by the little horn person, not the Jews. And none of what you wrote is time of the end. ----------------- The little horn person is time of the end. The transgression of desolation is time of the end. The 2300 days are time of the end ----------------- The fourth beast is not "pagan" Rome - but the Roman Empire. None of the three previous beasts believed in God either. But no-one calls them pagan Babylon, pagan Medo-Persian, pagan Greece. The four beast kingdoms are: Babylonian empire Medo-Persian empire Greek empire Roman Empire. a. ancient b. end times You are delineating along the wrong line concerning the Roman Empire, as all of the previous kingdoms were also "pagan". There is the ancient Roman Empire of Jesus's first coming. And there is the end times Roman empire, manifested as the EU, at the time of Jesus's second coming.

Charlie, the little horn person of Daniel 7 is the same little horn person of Daniel 8. And in Daniel 8:17, the little horn person and his transgression of desolation in Danel 8:12-13 is time of the end - not 3rd or 4th century.

The "one hour" is the 42 months of Revelation 13, when they will have their crowns in Revelation 13:1. The ten horns are the same ten kings in Daniel 7 - but it must be noted at some point the little horn person removes 3 of the original ten, and replaces them. It doesn't say why specifically.

The answer to the ten kings rule with the beast for one hour - is that they will rule will the beast for the 42 months in Revelation 13, ending the day that Jesus returns. The have their crowns in Revelation 13:1 as proof of what that means. In Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Their kingdom will be the kingdom of the beast. i.e. the final stage of the EU.

True, ten kings, not ten nations. They will be a group of ten prominent leaders - of ONE kingdom. One kingdom because it says in Revelation 17:17 they hand their kingdom singular over to the beast person. At that point the beast person will become the beast-king. The eighth king of Revelation 17:11. ------------------------------- The ONE kingdom will be the EU, a union of 27 nations at present. And the ten kings will be leaders of the EU. I don't know whether they are specifically national leaders or EU government leaders, such as making up a board. What remains to be seen is how those ten leaders form a pact or board of some sort which the little horn person emerges to be the leader of them. My guess it will be some sort of defense board. Here are the roles of the person to ultimately become the beast king. 1. little horn - leader over the board of the ten EU leaders. 2. the prince who shall come - the little horn moving to the middle east following Gog/Magog 3. the prince who shall come - anointed the King of Israel perceived messiah by the Jews. Becoming the Antichrist. 4. revealed man of sin - when the Antichrist claims to have achieved God-hood. End of his role as the King of Israel - as the Jews will renounce him and his claim. 5. the beast - after he is killed for his claim but is restored back to life. Becoming the beast. The ten EU leaders hand their EU kingdom over to him to become the beast-king, essentially as dictator of the EU.

I think that the messages to the 7 church's in Asia Minor was presented to them as a collection of what God was saying about each of them, in order for them to stand on their strong points and work to strengthen their weak points prevalent in each one of those church in the period just after cross. By presenting the messages as a collection, so each could view the others' strength and weaknesses - it served to describe different type of Christians... so individual Christians of all ages, not to just those first century 7 church's, could benefit by self-examination. No, I think the 4 horsemen of Revelation 6 are all end times representations. I consider the rider on the white horse (indicating a messianic figure) given a crown is the Antichrist person made so being anointed (given a crown) the King of Israel. (he must be a Jew and his religion Judaism) And that his first act will be to confirm the Mount Sinai covenant in Daniel 9:27, to begin the 7 year 70th week for the events in the rest of Revelation. The great tribulation events in the rest of Revelation do not begin until his stint as the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews is over. The great tribulation events do not begin until after he is killed and comes back alive to become the beast-king. The Pope/Papacy does not fit into the picture. The notion that the Pope/Papacy was/is the Antichrist came out of the reformation period when the Vatican was persecuting them who were trying to move out from being under Papal authority. Which the Pope/Papacy being the Antichrist probably made sense to the reformers given the broad scale of persecution, torture, and murders at the time.

keras, in order for Jesus to revenge the blood of the slain martyrs, those who had slain them must be alive. The ones who had martyred Stephen for example are long, long dead. The ones in the fifth seal are the great tribulation martyrs. Jesus will avenge their blood the day that He returns on the wicked. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

No, because those souls will have taken part in the rapture/resurrection event before the great tribulation takes place. The souls of them martyred during the great tribulation are those under the Altar in the fifth seal. Jesus tells them to wait a little longer until their number is complete (verse 11). Then when Jesus returns, he will avenge their blood on them who killed them. Which can only be done if them who killed them are alive at the time. 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The book that Jesus removed the seven seals to reveal what is inside is about the events that will take place in the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 to complete the seventy weeks determined on Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem. And to complete the mystery of God, spoken of Revelation 10:7.... 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. The mystery of God is God's plan to undo all the damage done to creation by Satan and his angels. And to redeem mankind. And to restore the earth. The mystery of God is the whole of the bible.

No, you have that wrong. The abomination of desolation will be the statue image of the beast-king that the false prophet will set up on the temple mount. The statue image will be standing on the temple mount 1335 days until the day that Jesus returns. On the day that Jesus returns, He destroys the statue image, turns it to ashes. Why? Because Satan will be indwelling the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. Everyone who worships the statue image will unknowingly be worshiping Satan. When the statue image is turned to ashes and Satan exposed, those people are going to be shocked to discover that it was Satan that they had been worshipping. ------------------------------------- How do we know that Jesus turns the statue image hiding Satan within into ashes ? Because in Ezekiel 28:16-19 is the judgment on Satan. Satan is going to get exposed and cast into the bottomless pit prison, the day that Jesus returns. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. So the statue image worshipers are going to be astonished when they see it was Satan they had been worshipping. ---------------------------------------- The 1290 days and the 1335 days, therefore, cannot extend beyond the day that Jesus returns - because both timeframes are relevant to the abomination of desolation statue image standing on the temple mount. On day 1185, the statue image will be placed on the temple mount. 1335 days before the day Jesus returns to turn it to ashes, exposing Satan. Counting forward from day 1185 - 1290 days, the sixth seal event takes place and the world sees Jesus in the third heaven, sickle in hand, prepared to execute judgment on the wicked. On day 2475. In reaction, over the next 45 days the kings of the earth assemble their armies at Armageddon, and also surround Jerusalem, taking half the city as hostages. On day 2520, Jesus descends to the Mt. of Olives, splits it in half, and the hostages flee through the valley to safety. Jesus stares the statue image into ashes as it goes up in flames - exposing Satan there on the temple mount. Then after casting the beast-king and the false prophet into the lake of fire, Jesus speaks and the armies surrounding Jerusalem fall dead. The rest of the armies outside of Jerusalem are then slain by an angel, Revelation 14:17-20. Then an angel descends from heaven in Revelation 20:1-3 binds Satan with a chain and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit prison.

Marv, the "He" is not Satan. During the second half of the seven years, when Satan has been cast down to earth having but a time, times, half time left - he will be indwelling the statue image of the beast-king, placed on the temple mount in Jerusalem by the false prophet. People who worship that statue image will be unknowingly worshiping Satan. Satan's indwelling of the statue image is what makes it appear to come alive and speak. That statue image hiding Satan within will be brought to ashes at Jesus's return by the brightness of Jesus's coming. Satan will thus be exposed there on the temple mount for all to see on that day. Fulfilling Ezekiel 28:16-19. ----------------------------------------------------- 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. ------------------------------------------------------------ All the people who will have been worshipping the statue image - will be shocked when they find out that they really will have been worshipping Satan. Once exposed, in Revelation 20:1-3, an angel will descend from heaven and bind Satan will a chain and cast him into the bottomless pit prison.

Everything I wrote is in context. But you are not understanding the context, because you are not applying what God has revealed in the New Testament.

To understand parts of Daniel, especially parts dealing with the time of the end, information must be taken from the New Testament. As the mystery of God unfolds. 36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. In 2Thessalonians2:4 reveals that person is the revealed man of sin who later becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. ------------------------------------------- The term "king of the west" does not appear directly in the text of Daniel 11. Nor does "Jesus" by name appear in Daniel 7:13-14....but from the New Testament, we know that it is Him. I have already explained how the king in Daniel 11:36 becomes the beast-king in my previous post. So I am not going to repeat it here.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. 36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Daniel 11:36 picks up in the time of the end from verse 35. The king in verse 36 is the beast-king of Revelation 13, who has claimed to be god. That person become the beast-king because the ten kings, i.e. ten leaders of the Roman Empire manifested in the end times as the EU, in Revelation 17:17 hand their kingdom over to him. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. Becoming the king of the EU, or more appropriately the dictator of the EU, makes him the King of the West. ----------------------------------------------- All nations from the four directions of the compass will be drawn into the middle east at the end of the 7 years. nations of the West. nations of the South nations of the North nations of the East.

Daniel 11:45 the king who meets his end is not the king of the north in that verse. The king who meets his end is the king of the West in that verse. ---------------------------------------- No, Daniel 12 is not the continuation of Daniel 11:45. Daniel 12 begins a new segment about time of the end events. Daniel 11:36-39 is a segment Daniel 11:40-45 is a segment Daniel 12:1- 13 is a segment

"At that time" in Daniel 12:1 is referring to the time of end when the beast king of Daniel 11:36 first starts ruling (he rules 42 months after the two witnesses's 1260 days). See my chart below. See "day 1185, AoD, image of the beast-king", typed in? 1335 days before Jesus returns. Not "used", but setup. Daniel 12:11-12. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The abomination of desolation will be an abomination - i.e. something detestable, setup on the temple mount. Which will make the temple mount desolate from worship of the One True God. i.e no worship of God going on - on the temple mount during the time that the statue image of the beast is standing there. Daniel 11:44 is not about the abomination of desolation, but about fierce reaction of the beast-king to be attacked from the east and north. Daniel 11:45 is about where the beast-king finally meets his end - "in the glorious holy mountain" i.e. the temple mount, Mount Moriah. Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. The beast-king, the false prophet, the abomination of desolation statue image animated by Satan within, will all be on the temple mount when Jesus returns.

A lot of going back and forth for sure. Everyone though is welcome to participate.

Specifically in Daniel 12:11-12. 1335 days before Jesus returns. See my chart below. The great tribulation lasts 1335 days, the timeframe between the AoD setup and Jesus's return.

1260 days is the first half of 7 years. The other timeframed events are in the second half of the 7 years. first half 1260 days, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6 second half 3 1/2 days, Revelation 11:9 a time, times, half time, Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 42 months, Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5

No, why would I believe that about the king of north? The king of the north in Daniel 11:40 is part of a combined attack on the beast-king - king of the West. Daniel 11:44 is about the beast-king's reaction of being attacked from the north and east.

Most of the first half of the 7 years (the first half of the 7 years is the 1260 days), the world is saying "peace and safety" thinking it has entered the messianic age. 1Thessalonains5:3. Being a time of false peace and safety, of a false messianic age, of a false messiah the Antichrist, the saints will not be persecuted for most of the first half of the 7 years. The great tribulation is for the last 1335 days of the 7 years. Daniel 12:1-2 is the great tribulation time period. At the end of the 7 years, and at the time of Jesus's return, the Jews who turn to Jesus during that time and end up being martyred for their belief will be resurrected back to life in Revelation 20:4-6. To eternal life. And will reign with Christ the thousand year millenium. The Jews who reject Jesus, and die in their sins, will be raised for the GWT (Great White Throne) judgement and be cast into the lake of fire, the everlasting shame of Daniel 12:2. --------------------------------------------- The battles of Daniel 11:40-44 are at the very end of the 7 years. The willful king of Daniel 11:36 is the beast-king, as the king of the West, his kingdom that of the EU. His center of power, however, where he will rule from will be in Jerusalem. Ruling from Jerusalem, he will be attacked from the south first. Then the northern king sees what is happening and joins in. Then the kings of the east also join in - on the attack on the beast-king, king of the West. It is the prelude to Armageddon. The armies of the west, south, north, east are drawn into the middle east. As the battles are taking place, the sixth seal event takes place, and the world sees Jesus in the third heaven before the throne of God, sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked men of the earth, and they will council together in Revelation 16:13-16 and band together to assemble their armies at Armageddon in Israel, to make war on Jesus, in a vain hope to keep Jesus from executing judgement on them. Psalms2: 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. ------------------------ Jude 1: 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,