Rekrap

He told us to watch and pray for the signs and times but on things like this, He will take care of us. Mark 13:9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. We need to train ourselves to hear what the Holy Spirit says to us.

This is my personal belief, which I do not have scripture to prove it correct or wrong. The anti-christ will come from one of the leaders of the Muslim faith and the false prophet will be one of the future catholic popes. Think of it, if you can lead all the Muslims and Catholics into one "religion" you will automatically have over half of the world following you. Just my 2 cents, but I have been wrong before.

More emotional and can be swayed because of this? What Scripture spells that statement out for you? 2 Chron 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. We have turned from His ways and supplanted our own so the opposite is happening. Our land is sick! We are not humble because we think we know better than what His word plainly says. 2 Chron 7:14 doesn't address my question in ANY way. I asked you about this statement from your former post..... "Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this." Again....what Scripture backs up your comment? No I do not have scripture for that comment. Then what did you mean by this sentence? "God laid it out in 1 Timothy 2 and other places the order of things in the Church. He also explained the reasoning. Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this." You wrote that God explained His reasoning about women. So, is that just your own opinion or did God actually make the explanation? Verses 13 and 14 were the reasoning behind verse 12. I said I did not have verses to back up my emotional differences. (which is what you put in quotes)

More emotional and can be swayed because of this? What Scripture spells that statement out for you? 2 Chron 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. We have turned from His ways and supplanted our own so the opposite is happening. Our land is sick! We are not humble because we think we know better than what His word plainly says. 2 Chron 7:14 doesn't address my question in ANY way. I asked you about this statement from your former post..... "Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this." Again....what Scripture backs up your comment? No I do not have scripture for that comment.

More emotional and can be swayed because of this? What Scripture spells that statement out for you? 2 Chron 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. We have turned from His ways and supplanted our own so the opposite is happening. Our land is sick! We are not humble because we think we know better than what His word plainly says.

I personally believe women leading the churches is one of the problem in our Christian churches today. God laid it out in 1 Timothy 2 and other places the order of things in the Church. He also explained the reasoning. Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this. God is constant throughout time and scripture. Yes he pours out his spirit on everyone and that does mean that there are women who have the gift to teach and any other of the spiritual gifts. There are roles for that throughout the body of Christ but multiple times it gives the order of the church and the requirements of the pastoral role. If a woman can pastor a church, please explain the following two verses away with other scripture. (A hint, you can't except by our own faulted reasoning) 1 Timothy 2 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. 1 Timothy 3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the asnare of the devil. I personally feel this is why America is falling. We have gotten away from His word and inserted our feelings and beliefs into it. This is why homosexuality, sexual perverts and other things are rampant in our churches. We try to turn our God into something else to meet our personal wants and the wants of others instead of us turning our wants and desires to be more like His.

This is a presupposition, not validated but refuted by scripture. How is it that you say we all have a choice to accept or reject Christ, yet Paul says this? 1 Corinthians 2:14 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Paul is saying here that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, and you seem to be under the impression that this natural man has the free choice to do so. Will you then say that once the Holy Spirit ministers to this man, he will eventually choose by his own freewill yeah or nay upon seeing the Truth, when he already was in nay to begin with? When did his freewill to choose begin, when he was halfway between Truth and lies? Romans 11:25 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:30-31 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. We are not arguing with this. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and draws us to Him. We and people can not know Him or know of His mercy unless the Holy Spirit leads us to Him. 1 Chor 12:3. It is up to us to decide after the Holy Spirit shows us to accept or reject Him.

Oh yes it does. Ephesians 5 spells it out very clearly. 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Our marriages should reflect Christ love for us to the world. Everything we do should reflect as a testimony for Him. If we as husbands or wives not do what is listed below, how are we suppose to love our enemies. All things, when completed according to scripture are to point toward Christ. He is the beginning and the end. ALL things were made by Him and for Him.

What's with this as an argument? Do you not understand that a man who knows God walks in step with Him? Of course I understand it. I am the one posting it and defending it on this thread. It is the purpose of this thread to show why it is not by the power of the choice of men but by God's grace. I have said this from the beginning that the knowledge of God is what gives man a freewill, as in a will free to obey God and not a slave to sin. The knowledge of God is the Truth that sets free, as Jesus said. This thread can stop now. Everyone is arguing over the different stages and aspects of freewill in our lives. I agree with your statement "the knowledge of God is what gives man a freewill, as in a will free to obey God and not a slave to sin." Once we choose to follow him, we can have the will and power to not be a slave to sin anymore. Phil 4:13 illustrates where we get that power from. He empowers us to choose to not be slaved to our sinful nature. Here is the process of our spiritual lives. A very basic one! 1. Born of water and born of sin. We all have to be physically born and along with that comes our sinful nature built into us passed down from Adam. 2. We realize what sin is. Whether or not we believe in Christ, everyone knows that they sin because the Holy Spirit shows us what sin is. That is his job to convict. This next step is the major choice in our lives. 3. We either chose to accept or reject Jesus's payment for our sins. We can realize that we can not earn salvation on our own and accept His grace through faith or we can reject Him and try to make it on our own. Our choice here is what directs our life for eternity 4. We physically die (or Christ comes returns) and we stand before God, either by ourselves or with Christ standing for us. I believe the freewill you (Childeye) are referring to is the process in between 3 and 4 and most everyone else is speaking about step 3. Step 3 is a choice we all have to make and our freewill gives us that choice. Once we receive Christ, we stay in between 3 and 4 and with His power in us we no longer have to be a slave to sin like we were before step 3. This is where we begin to grow in Him and start to see sin the way God does and are strengthened by Him to overcome our sinful nature. Now we will never be sinless, as many of the prophets and apostles testified to, but our freewill is then changed to be more like him. All in all, we all have a choice in life to accept or reject Christ. That choice directs the rest of our lives and also affects how we choose, through our freewill to live the rest of our lives. Either following Him through His strength or as a slave to sin.

Been quoting that scripture over and over myself. Sharing it is almost like kicking a dead horse. It is overlooked or argued with over and over. It's not being over looked. It's being addressed. Can you explain the historical context in which Paul was speaking and addressing in the Church where Timothy was the Deacon? There's a problem here and that is that Pauls words here and history according to the Word do not agree with what he has said in practice so there might be a historical context that we are missing. Where does Paul's words not line up with any other part of God's word?

The question was can women lead the flock. According to scripture the answer is plainly no. To try and explain that they can pastor a church is in direct conflict with His Word. 1 Timothy 2 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and 5moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. Can women teach in classes and other parts of the church, by all means yes. Priscilla did this as stated above but notice she did it appropriately. She took him to the side and explained one on one. It was common for the men to confront someone they disagreed with openly in the temple. God has different roles for the different sexes because we are different. One is not less than the other but they are different.

The Holy Spirit of Truth is indeed like a tractor beam drawing men to God. Truth is not impotent, and men's eyes need light to see. Of course if the eyes are bad, they need be healed to even know what light is. A tractor beam (if there was such a thing but I will play along) is something you can not get away from. You can reject the Holy Spirit calling you to salvation, Just ask King Agrippa. He told Paul that he was "almost persuaded". That tells us that he had the choice to believe of not. That choice is there because of our free will. “King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you do believe.” Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.” And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.” I believe this is what is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the sin that is not forgivable because when he calls us to salvation, if we reject him we can not be saved. Every man has a choice and a chance to be saved. God says that he wishes ALL men to be saved. It is whether or not you open the door of you heart that He is knocking on and let him in the the choice we all have to make.

I'm not sure if your remark is pointed at me so please ignore this if it wasn't. I do not believe men are saved over and over. I simply note that Jesus indicated that although your name is written in the book of life it can yet be blotted out. I have a personal belief about the book of life that as far as I can tell goes with scripture but I am also a new Christian so I am still learning daily. I personally believe that everyone's names are in the Book of Life at the beginning of the foundation of the world. I get this by Jesus telling us that he wishes that all men might be saved. (1 Tim 2:3-4). Everywhere in the Bible that it talks about the Book of Life it is either the name is found, not found or blotted out, but Psalms is what convinces me that everyone's name is in their in the beginning. Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. David is speaking about his enemies here and he assumes their names are in the book and ask that they be blotted out. I believe that no one can be saved excepted they are drawn to him by the holy spirit. (John 16:8) The sin that is unforgivable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, (Mark 3:29) and this is the point that they a blotted out of the Book of Life. Just a babe in Christ two cents. In His love, Brian

There is biblical confirmation in Isaiah 26:19-21, Psalm 75:2, Psalm 50:1-6, Song of Solomon 2:8-13, Joel 2, 2 Thess 2, Rev 6 & 7, Matt 24, Rev 12 & 13 among other places that the gathering to God is before the antichrist arrives on scene. In fact, if you read Revelation 12 and 13 you will see that the antichrist blasphemes the heaven-dwellers described as the church. We have to be dwelling in heaven for the antichrist to be blasheming us! "heaven-dwellers described as the church" Do not add what is not there. He blasphemes God and those that dwell in heaven. How does that describe the church? The heaven-dwellers were defined earlier: Rev 12: 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The only people who "overcome by the blood of the Lamb" is the church. It says "now is come salvation...and the Kingdom". It says "our brethren" Read verse 12 again! The overcame "him". They overcame the devil. These are all the ones that John saw earlier in his vision in Revelation 7 that came OUT of the tribulation and were beheaded for His sake.

There is biblical confirmation in Isaiah 26:19-21, Psalm 75:2, Psalm 50:1-6, Song of Solomon 2:8-13, Joel 2, 2 Thess 2, Rev 6 & 7, Matt 24, Rev 12 & 13 among other places that the gathering to God is before the antichrist arrives on scene. In fact, if you read Revelation 12 and 13 you will see that the antichrist blasphemes the heaven-dwellers described as the church. We have to be dwelling in heaven for the antichrist to be blasheming us! "heaven-dwellers described as the church" Do not add what is not there. He blasphemes God and those that dwell in heaven. How does that describe the church?

Hi Jen, Our gathering and the departure (falling away) are not one and the same. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Two things will happen before that day arrives. Notice that Paul said that that day (Christ coming and our gathering unto Him) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and the man of sin is revealed. No, the Day of the Lord that people were concerned about was the coming wrath. They were concerned that the Day of the Lord had come. Paul told them that Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath shall not come unless the departure come first and the man of sin is revealed whom Jesus will destroy by the brightness of His coming. Unless the Greek word "apostasia", meaning departure, is translated correctly, people are confused as to what the restrainer is. Don't you find it odd that Paul would say, "concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together unto him" and then supposedly say absolutely nothing about that gathering? Don't you find it odd that Paul would say, "now you know what is restraining him" and yet its unclear as to what the restrainer is? Don't you find it interesting that the mouth of the beast is blaspheming "heaven dwellers" in Rev 13, defined as the glorified church in Revelation 12? That means that the glorified church is dwelling in heaven when the 42 months of the "antichrist" begins when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath starts. Paul said the same thing in 1 Thess 4/5. The gathering occurs before the Day of the Lord/wrath begins. When that Day begins is when the devil has 42 months to force people to make a choice for eternity before Christ comes to destroy those who choose poorly. Rev 13 5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for yforty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all awho dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear: 10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints Where does it say he is blaspheming the church? He Blasphemes God and those who dwell in it. It also says he will make war with the Saints? They are not in Heaven? He even tells us that this is our call for endurance and faith. So if the Holy Spirit is the restrainer, and he is "raptured" with the church, how can there be Saints here? 1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that qno one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is raccursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. How can anyone become a Saint without the Holy Spirit? I would love anyone of the pre-trib thought explain 1 Cor 15 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. We all will be changed at THE LAST TRUMP. Death is also killed! How is death killed before the tribulation and then more death is to come to the Saints. A Pre-trib rapture needs so much explaining to happen that it drives me crazy that people do not read the Bible for what it is!

I do see how those things, weather and young child would make it harder. I see it as he is telling them that their Great Tribulation is coming, so pray for good weather and to not be with child during this. I personally believe when Jesus was speaking to them, he was telling them of a tribulation that was coming to them, Nero and Rome. He was also warning us at the same time. I have studied this time of Israel history quite a bit. For instance when Jesus warned them about people saying in Matthew 24:26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. He was warning them. This was a common tactic of the Romans to get the young Christians and Jews out of hiding during this war. Just as in parables, although slightly different, His words had multiple meanings and teachings. Whether it was a Heavenly story with an earthly meaning or a prophecy that told of things to his audience and also foretell of things to come. I personally am a post-tribulation"er" while I was raised pre-trib. I have come to the conclusion that the timing is up to God and what we personally beleive the scripture says is irrevelant. He told us to watch, be sober and be ready. If you have received his gift of salvation, then if I am wrong and he comes before the tribulation, PRAISE THE LORD!!!, but if my interpretation is correct then be watching, be sober and be ready. Luke 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife. Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we 3may nserve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For oour God is a consuming fire.

Matthew 24:20-21 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. KJV This is a conditional statement, and verse 21 is DEPENDENT UPON verse 20! How is this conditional? It does not state if you pray, this will not happen. It say to pray that you do not have to travel during the winter nor on a Sabbath. In Christ Love, Brian