Anne

Prove that GOD does not exist............many say He does not. I say the burden of proof is upon those who say He does not. I've read through many of these posts saying that God does not exist.............go on prove it.

Just when you think people couldn't get worse...........they go and surprise you all over again

I had the same thought too, there is very little on these important matters in my paper, so i rely on other sources.

This is great news for someone to be found alive, our God is merciful. I pray comfort to those who have lost someone.

If anyone would care to help out with the following:- If you have read my initial theory on Genesis 1 verses 1 and 2, and are of the same opinion, how does the following verse fit into that theory? Matthew 19 v 4 And he answered and said unto them, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, I've checked, it's same beginning as verse 1 of Genesis. So, i find myself in a confusing spot, concerning the point of creation of Adam and Eve, either I was wrong or I was wrong.............someone pass me a baseball bat, no it's okay, i'll hit myself over the head. In my defence it is a sign of intelligence, to admit you are not intelligent

Howdy back to you Mrs SE I'll take a look at that site tonight, thank you for the info. God Bless you and Mr SE too Anne

I think I have found something we all can agree upon, following on from verse 2 of Genesis. Some refer to it as "The First day of Creation," because as it has been pointed out they believe that verse 1 and 2 do not speak of a creation followed by a catastrophic event. I refer to it as "The First day of Restoration," for reasons already posted. Whichever you choose to believe the message in verse 3 I believe is a clear indication to (a) the sinner, (b) those who believe in God, but do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, but view Him more as a very smart man and © a commission to the Christians. Genesis Chapter 1 verse 3 And God said, "Let there be light:" and there was light. Firstly, the word "light" spoken of here, seems to be indicating some sort of illumination and I can see from my concordance that it is also described as happiness, clear, lightning and morning. I was reminded when reading this, of a question asked on the forums here not that long ago, concerning the difference between the light described in verse 3 and the lights described in verses 14 through to 16, the poster queried what the light in verse 3 actually was? However I am not at all sure, the difference I can find is that the lights, (describe in my concordance as an illuminary body), spoken of in the latter verse is indeed different from that of verse three. But the question still remains, what is the light spoken of in verse 3? I don't think I have an answer, so would appreciate anyone elses input on the matter. But I did find something very interesting whilst reading verse 3, something which I found quite thought provoking, and I hope you do too. God's first commandment is here in this verse, "Let there be light," and light was, God commanded it must be so and no power on earth could hold back that which God commands. What God commands, must be and will be, what more proof would someone need that Jesus was indeed the Son of God? Here is some for you to contemplate:- (1) Mark 4 verse 39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, "Peace be still." And the wind ceased, and there was a great CALM. (2) Mark 5 verse 41 and 42 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, "TALITHA CUMI;" which is, being interpreted, "Damsel, I say unto thee, arise." And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; (3) Luke 5 verse 13 And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, "I will: be thou clean." And immediately the leprosy departed from him. (4) Luke 7 verses 14 and 15 And he said, "Young man, I say unto thee, arise." And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. (5) John 11 verses 43 and 44 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, "LAZARUS, COME FORTH." And he that was dead came forth. There are many more examples of Jesus performing miracles such as this in the New Testament, who else could have done such a wonder? Only God himself who chased away the darkness in verse 3 of Genesis! Look closer those who do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, the voice who commanded "peace be still", is the same voice who commanded "Let there be light." The voice who commanded, "Damsel, I say unto thee, arise," is the same voice who commanded "Let there be light." The voice who commanded, "LAZARUS, COME FORTH!", is the same voice that commanded, "Let there be light!" No one else could have spoken with such authority! Jesus Christ IS the Son of God and my Saviour! Selah. The authority of God who created the heaven and earth, is the same authority which is stamped upon in the New testament. Of course God need not have uttered a single word, for "light" to be, nor need Jesus have said anything, but, surely it can be understood that from the very foundation of the earth, God wanted us to know just how all powerful and mighty His Word is. The Word of God is absolute, it is all sufficient light, and from the light of His Word darkness takes flight! The Word of God is our Heavenly Father's Will and it will not go unheeded. What great comfort this must be to us as born again believers! But there is a more, somber message in verse 3 of Genesis chapter 1, one which every Christian must bear in mind when they pass a friend who they know is not saved, or a stranger whose destination is unsure. Or indeed the sinner themself, who perchance happens to read this post. Man fell into darkness with the first sin, generation after generation continues to live in that sin which was committed in the Garden of Eden. People are falling deeper and deeper into that sin as the years pass by, either completely ignorant of the light, having no knowledge of it's presence, or at the worse, having knowledge of the light but choosing in their stubborness to ignore it altogether. Well, here in Genesis verse 3 is a warning for the sinner. It is likely, I think, that many do not know they are born into and continue to live in darkness. If they did, could their minds reason the danger which they are headed towards? It seems foolishness to them when a passing stranger points out the peril of their journey. They think it a joke, when someone tells them of the Saviour who died for them, of the light which can dissapate that awful darkness. Yet, with all the intellect the sinner can muster, they will try to reason with it in their hearts, understand it with their minds and by their own sheer will endeavour to shine their own light, to travel their own way, but they will fail. Now maybe the light flickers for a moment, and some satisfaction is attain, but shortly it fizzles out. Maybe the sinner just shruggs his shoulders, unable to fully understand the battle in his heart, and continues along his walk without much more thought on the matter. Further along the sinners walk a voice cuts through the darkness and commands, "LET THERE BE LIGHT" and the sinner looks at his life, seeing the pain he has caused and the trouble he has inflicted upon others. He looks down and sees his feet stand just balancing upon the edge of a cliff. And for one awful moment, all seems lost. What should the sinner do with this new found knowledge? Should he continue on his journey over the cliff, or will he turn and humble himself, and say "Yes Lord I see." I think it is not only important to realise that the Word of God is a light unto this world, but we as Christians must understand we bare an important in this command! I've just noticed I got a little carried away. I stop now, lol. Who would have thought so much could be understood from so little, sorry guys

I'm not sure valiant, i'm only learning myself, however, if you go to the Hebrew forum here, and put your question there, someone who knows more about the Hebrew language may be able to help. Anne

My apologies 2thepoint, I had a knee jerk reaction to the below quote, anyway I offer my apology, and am sorry that I offended you. God Bless Anne

Lol, okay Apoth, maybe I should have worded my question better. could you point me to a book or website, which states that God created the world in a state of chaos. God Bless Anne

Understood Mrs Sealed, So, you are saying that God originally created (verse 1) in the manner spoken of in (verse 2), and then inhabited it as describe in (verse 3)? I'd be very interested in discussing the generation timeline with you, but I know very little on the matter, so it would be more of a learning tool for me. God Bless Anne

2 the Point, I am not promoting a gap theory, where on earth did you conclude that from? In fact, I have specifically spoken against it, please do not put words in my mouth. Just so we are clear, I believe that "the six day creation" occurred in exactly that time frame. The reason I ask concerning the word "became", was to inquire of it's origins, not to insinuate a gap theory. You either, did not read my entries, or skimmed over them and assumed I was speaking about a gap theory.

Apoth, Why would God create something in a state of chaos?

My estimation timeline on the generations of the Bible, is only that, (a basic guess), based on the generations of the Bible, but I quite gladly admit, that as I have not studied the entire Bible, I could be way out on my guess. However, just so i'm not misunderstood, I am not saying that is how old the earth itself is. Mrs sealed, asked why I had come to the conclusion that what I read in verse 2 of Genesis 1 was vile and ugly, now that I can answer more fully. First we should look at the verse itself, (I read from the KJV):- Genesis Chapter 2 verse 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters Lets look at what this means in english first, this might seem like a wasteful thing to do, but bare with me: (1) Earth = world, planet, sphere, clay, dirt, turf, ground, dry ground, land. (2) Without = deprived of, destitute of, wanting, absence. (3) Form = formation, construction, arrangement, figure, shape, build, frame, character, order. (4) Void = blankness, hollow, abyss. (5) Darkness = blackness, gloom, unenlightened The word earth, obviously will bring a picture of dry land into many peoples' minds, it brings to my mind shape and form, but, I asked myself how could this be? when we then read the words like "without form". The earth (erets) created (bara) in verse 1, is the very same earth (erets) mentioned at the beginning of verse 2. And it is quite clear that the earth in verse 1 had form, God created it thus. So I wondered how can the earth in verse 1 and 2 (which had form, fields, dry land, to be firm, country, land, wilderness, etc) then be said to be without form............. am i confusing anyone yet? I'll let you guys think that one over. Yet I'll just add one little thing, I am told that it is more correct to read "And the earth became without form," as opposed to "And the earth was without form", I am led to understand that the word "became" is a more correct translation of the original Hebrew word used in this verse, possibly someone could provide me with clarification on that point? Now let's look at the Hebrew:- (1) Earth = erets - as already said has the meaning of, to be firm, at large or partially land, common, country, earth, field, ground, land, wilderness, world. (2) Without form = tohuw - to lie waste, a desolation(of surface), a worthless thing, confusion, empty place, without form, a thing of nought, vain, vanity. (3) void = bohuw - to be empty, a vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin, emptiness. (4) darkness = choshek - misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness, night. (5) face = paniym - as the face that turns (6) deep = tehom - an abyss (as a surging mass of water) (7) Spirit of God = ruwach Elohiym - ie God the Holy Spirit. (8) moved = rachaph - to brood, to flutter (9) face = paniym - same meaning as previous. (10) waters = Mayim - water, juice, urine, wasting. Now these are thought provoking words, especially when we turn to the Book of the Prophet Isaiah, Chapter 45 verse 18:- "For thus saith the LORD that created (here's the word bara again, as used in verse 1 of Genesis) the heavens; God himself that formed (yatsar, having the meaning of to mould into shape, as a potter, to determine (to form a resolution) the earth and made it; He hath established it, he created not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited." In Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1, I learned of what I believed to have been the original creation of God, of how before what we read of in verse 2, God created the heaven and earth. But in verse 2 we see something of an undistinguishable ruination, a thing of vanity, and when Isaiah 45 v 18 is taken into consideration, I can only conlude that verse 2 of Genesis, was not the original state in which the world was created. Some do believe that the scene discribed in verse 2 of Genesis chapter 1, was the primitive state of the world before the initial creation of the earth as we now know it. Yet, surely, a clear distinction can be seen between the creation (creating something out of nothing) in verse 1, the ruination (a thing of vanity) in verse two and eventually the restoration (or forming) beginning in verse 3? If you were presented with the surging waste in verse 2 and told to fix it, you would have thrown your hands in the air and said, "forget it, it's not worth it", all would have seemed lost to you and I. Hope drew nigh, as the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, knew what needed to be done, and set about the mending of the earth. Your Sister in Christ Jesus Anne

This is part of a study I have been doing for a short time, I hadn't planned on posting it, however after reading another post, concerning the age of the earth, I thought I'd post part of it. My reason for posting separate from the original discussion, is due to that fact that some of my views may open other lines of discussion, and I have no wish for the Original thread to become hijacked. Opening Thoughts The "Book of Beginnings" opens with a precise and positive statement. To the believer it must be enough to know that in the beginning was God and it was God who created the heaven and earth. Thus we must content ourselves with what has been written and pull back our inquiring minds from trying to understand that which has not been written. To the non-believer, I find it a very interesting fact that, Genesis 1 verse 1 and indeed the entire Book of Genesis, is under constant attack from others who believe the Holy Scriptures account of how the world came into existence, to be incorrect. However as far as stragtegic manouvres go, attacking a tree at the root is usually the best way to dispel what an enemy sees as a problem. I feel it only fair to point out that, in this instance, it will be like banging your head off a preverble brick wall, as the Word of God cannot be proven false, because interestingly it is actually the truth, whether people choose to accept it or not. Many people, will choose quite happily to believe that the world came into being through some cosmic accident, rather than through the precious words, loving hands and gentle breath of our Heavenly Father, the only true and Living God. A simple explanation for this is it means they are accountable to no one for their actions! Many theories abound to explain away the literal 6 day creation. Some say, the days weren't actual days, but more like ages, such as one day equals one year or a thousand years, some say more, or that there was indeed a long period gap between each day of creation, possibly to allow for some sort of natural development to occur. Others Believe that the days referred to were days in the life of Moses, who wrote the Book of Genesis, in other words that it took Moses six days to write about the creation. Now you can accept the account of creation in Genesis, or not, the choice is yours, but as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, the matter is not up for debate. Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1 " In the beginning GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth." Genesis, I feel, is among one of the most exciting Books of the Bible, (if i'm permitted some more years to study the entire Bible, i'd imagine my view will be the whole Bible is just mind blowing ). Genesis explains where we came from, and it is through Genesis we can trace back to our ancestors, Adam and Eve, and from them to God, yet we cannot trace any further back. Now this is a difficult matter for some to understand or grasp, for alot say that something, or someone must have created God. Well this is simply not true. The reason we cannot trace any further back is because God has no beginning, God was not created, but rather is the beginning, is the creator, this fact is demonstrated in the Hebrew word (Re'shith - beginning, before time began, chiefest, etc). In this verse, we first encounter the name of our Heavenly Father (Elohiym), which speaks somewhat of the different characteristics or personalities of the Living God, the Hebrew word Elohiym, is specifically used in the plural sense, meaning more than one of, in the opening verse of Genesis. And although not specifically referred to in verse 1, also denotes the triune (see Genesis chapter 1 verse 26), God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This is an amazing name, stop for a moment to think about it, look at the wisdom of God! From this one name, God shows us His eventual plan to send His Son, to save the world from sin. My heart has a mixture of feelings, one part of me is saddened to know that from before our beginning, God knew His Son would be killed by the hands of the very people He so lovingly formed and breathed life into. It was no small decision by God to create this earth and us, and I for one, am ashamed that my sin caused our Heavenly Father so great a pain, but am eternally thankful that God, even God knowing what would happen, willing and lovingly sent His Son Jesus, so that I might one day go Home to be with my Heavenly Father. So what on earth, does Genesis 1 verse 1 actually mean? Is it the beginning of our ancestory here on earth? Is the Holy Spirit merely revealing that it was God who created all things in the beginning? Or is something more revealed in this verse? One must consider the Hebrew word used for "created" in verse 1, (bara), now this literally means to create, this is no surprise, but bara, also carries two meanings which I find very interesting, (1) it carries the idea of instanteous creation and (2) the creating of something out of nothing. You see, the word bara is used, to my knowledge thus far, only in connection with God and His creation. Men can "make" (asah), men can "form" (yatsa), but only God can "create" (bara). I know I'm going to be on some very dodgey ground with some of my Christian brethern, but the wording in Genesis 1 verse 1, concerning creation is very different from the wording, used during what we call "the six day creation". It is only in verses 21 and 27 of chapter 1 that we come across "created" again. The rest of the "six day creation" denotes a certain type of forming, from something that was already there. I will concede that at this stage I cannot give a full explanation, because at the moment I do not fully understand it myself. I believe that Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1, speaks of an original creation, of which man was not part, and although the verse is seemingly brief in its explanation, it is here in this verse that I believe God first created something out of nothing, a thing of beauty! What exactly was in this earth, is not fully disclosed, possibly because the Holy Spirit does not deem it necessary for us to know, we know only this that God created (bara), the heaven (shamayim) - alluding to the lofty arch in which the clouds move and to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve, and God created (erets) - to be firm, the earth (at large, or partitively a land), common, country, earth, field, ground, land, wilderness, world. So if this was the original creation, what happened? I believe a catashrophic event took place, which brought about the ruination (possibly too strong a word on my part), of the original creation in verse 1. You see many believe that the fall of lucifer, came about due to his jealousy of God's creation of man, lucifer may well be jealous of God's love for us, but it was not that which brought about his banishment from Heaven. lucifer, believed he could set himself above God, and took steps to achieve this, and was thus banished from Heaven, but this took place before the creation of man. And as we know a great battle took place between God with His angels and lucifer with his minions. So I asked myself, was the result of such a battle, verse 2 in Genesis? Some of you will think yes and some no. But I will put this to you, in God, my Heavenly Father, is no ugliness, is no vile thing and therefore I must conclude that God did not create the picture which I see set before me in verse 2. Something much more vile had their hand in it. So in answer to the OP of the thread who questioned the age of the earth, it is not a answer any human can give you, for the earth could be ages old, but how old is the generations of man? Well, my best estimations are in the area of eight to ten thousand years. PS, before you all start shouting, give me time to grab a coffee, lol! God Bless Your Sister in Jesus Christ Anne

Thank you, but I still do not understand, Daniel is very much loved in Heaven, and I understand what you have written, but if you could please explain your reasoning behind "Daniel was not considered a prophet in the strictest sense" I mean no insult, I am just trying to understand why it is that the Children of Israel do not recognise Daniel. Your Sister in Jesus Christ Anne

I have recently been researching why it is that the non-christian Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Everything put aside, I am told and have read that the Jewish people do not believe Daniel to have been a prophet of God Almighty. May I request an explanation or reasoning for the drawing of such a conclusion. In other words, why is it that some conclude Daniel was not a prophet of God Almighty. Secondly, is the Book of Daniel included in the Jewish Holy Book? Your Sister in Jesus Christ Anne

Amen Nebula, I was shocked to read the teacher was a Methodist too!

Amazing, God is sending His people everywhere. Heavenly Father, Grant these women your strength and comfort. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ Amen

Yomo, Here are the details of that book we were talking about, hope this helps: "Number in Scripture" by E W Bullinger This book goes into biblical numerology, and mathematical perfection in design, symmetry and order both in God's Creation and in the Holy scriptures. I looked for the original thread on this subject, but couldn't find it, sorry.

Hey MK Thought i'd forgotten, didn't ya? ........Yeah, yeah, I know it took long enough. So here goes, hope my understanding of it helps:- The scripture verses I believe you were referring to are: (KJV) Revelation Chapter 8 verse 10 And the third Angel sounded, and there (1)fell a (2)great (3)star from (4)heaven, (5)burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of the waters; verse 11 And the name of the (6)star is called (7)"Wormwood:" and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. (1) Pipto (akin to peto) - alightening, to fall, fall down, light on. (also akin to petomai) - to fly. (2) megas - big, exceedingly great, high, large, loud, mighty, (be) sore (afraid). (akin to megistos) - greatest or very great. (akin to meizon) - larger, elder, greater. (3) aster - a star (as strown over the sky). (akin to stronunumi/astronnuo/astroo) - through the idea of positing, to strew (spread). (akin to stereos) - stiff, solid, stable, steadfast, strong, sure. (4) ouranos - through the idea of elevation, heaven (as the abode of God), air, heavenly, sky. (5) Kaio - to set on fire, kindle, consume, burn, light. (6) same interpretation as point 3. (7) apsinthos - bitterness, calamity. The above is taken from Strongs Exhaustive Concordance. The thing I noticed MK, was the 'fell' referred to in verse 10 seems to be falling down from the sky, I am presuming this is before it makes contact with any object (the earth in this instance). We are then furnished with a description of the 'great' star, which to the say the very least is huge, but I also noticed there was a sound word attached to it, making me think that it's going to be heard as it falls down. Further to this, the word 'great', has a feeling attached to it, namely 'be sore afraid.' The description of 'star' in point 6 makes me think that this is an object of solid mass, measuring a great distance across the sky. And as it travels across the sky it burns brightly. The word 'Wormwood', as you probably already know, means bitterness and calamity. In view of this, my answer to your original question is, no, I do not believe Chernobyl is 'Wormwood'. Whatever 'Wormwood' is it will travel downwards and make impact, whereas the Chernobyl explosion travelled upwards. I believe 'Wormwood' has yet to occur, but these are just my thoughts. If you can get your hands on a concordance, I suggest you set aside some time to study this. Also I've pulled out some old books of mine, to give you a view of more learned people than myself:- (1) The following is information taken from "Behold He Cometh" by Dr John R Rice and is his verse by verse commentary on Revelation. Dr Rice believes it to be a meteor, " there fell a great star from heaven.........evidently a meteor. We need not be surprised for every "falling star" we see is some fragment of meteoric material coming into the earth's atmostphere. Often the friction burns up that lump of matter before it comes to the earth, but not always................We can well understand how a meteor from outer space and the cloud of meteor dust that might go with it might poison the waters so that many people would die from the chemicals thus brought into the water." Dr Rice also mentions a scientist called Velikovsky, who at the time of the book going to print was not a christ, who had written a couple of books dealing with meteor collisions (Worlds in Collision and Ages in Chaos) it is my understanding that Velikovsky deals in some way with 'Wormwood' by comparison to evidence which he believes suggests a meteor impact around the time of Noah and the Ark. However, MK, I cannot give you any information on this book, as I do not have it among my collection. (2) The following is taken from "Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, A critical, experimental and practical Commentary" *please note that this is not my opinion but that of the authors and whilst it may be somewhat difficult to grasp, it is worth hearing as it is a further opinion on the matter* "Under the third trumpet, the third of the rivers is affected; also, under the sixth trumpet, the third part of men are killed........fire is the predominant element..........symbolizers interpret the star fallen from heaven a chief minister (Arius & c, or some future false teacher) falling from his high place, and instead of shining with heavenly light as a star, became a torch lit with earthly fire and smouldering with smoke. Wormwood, though medicinal, if used as ordinary water, would not only be disagreeable, but also fatal; so 'heretical wormwood changes Siloas of Scripture into deadly Marah' (they have quoted that from wordsworth). Contrast the converse change of Marah water into sweet, 'Alford' instances the conversion of water into firewater - ardent spirits - which may destroy a third of the ungodly in latter days" Whew.........don't ask me to explain that last one, not sure I understand it fully myself yet. What we have here is two different views to the one you posed. I, at this stage believe Wormwood to be a meteor. lol.......Hope I haven't confused you even more MK Anne

Thanks Cats, this is a subject of interest for me. Your Sister in Jesus Christ Anne

Paolo I assure you I am not judging anyone. I am saying that the Bible is very clear on this matter.

Raven, you believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, and you are concerned as to whether those who might be left behind will have the oportunity to be saved? I do not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, however, as many are going away from your original question I reckon you do not want to hear my views on that, I would like you to consider the following as my answer: Revelation 7 v 14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said unto me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the lamb." Now, as far as I understand, some of those who believe in pre-tribulation, believe this occurs after the rapture. I will PM you my personal belief if you wish. Anne