taylor30

Giving to the poor is something we are instructed to do, but tithing is to God. We give an offering, but we PAY a tithe. It is for the house of God, and for the administration of the work and is disbursed to the needs of others. The tithe is something that the Lord lays on the heart to do. There is no scripture that rescinds the tithe. Well that is a bit of a stretch. Remember that Jesus said when we give to the least of these, we ARE giving to him. So I can certainly support the position that when I give to a poor person or needy person I see ( and maybe who God caused to cross my path so I could give to them ) then I AM giving to God. It may be a stretch to some folk, but God and His precious promises are more than worth it. There are certain promises connected to the tithe, and not to merely giving or being generous with people. Giving is something we do over and above the tithe. I think you are still misunderstanding me. My MAIN point is that the tithe does NOT apply to Christians. I'm not saying we shouldn't, but if you say its REQUIRED, you place people under bondage. What should I tell my neighbor when she can barely afford to feed her kids? That Giddy is punishing her for not thing and her kids should go hungry so the local pastor can pay the bills in the church?

Giving to the poor is something we are instructed to do, but tithing is to God. We give an offering, but we PAY a tithe. It is for the house of God, and for the administration of the work and is disbursed to the needs of others. The tithe is something that the Lord lays on the heart to do. There is no scripture that rescinds the tithe. Well that is a bit of a stretch. Remember that Jesus said when we give to the least of these, we ARE giving to him. So I can certainly support the position that when I give to a poor person or needy person I see ( and maybe who God caused to cross my path so I could give to them ) then I AM giving to God.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond. One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help. Wow. 2 Corinthians 9:6-12 6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9 As the Scriptures say, “They share freely and give generously to the poor. Their good deeds will be remembered forever.” 10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you. 11 Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12 So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God. I actually agree with those verses. But did you notice something the preachers DON'T mention when reading those? It only says to give to poor and needy. It DOESN'T say give to pastors or churches. That's because giving is not tithing. I'm afraid I don't understand your meaning. The NT never commands tithing to churches either, neither is it commanded at all. Only giving is commanded and it doesn't say you have to give to a church. So are you telling me that if I give to the poor and needy, BUT skip the middleman of the church, I am being disobedient? Give me 1 single scripture where I am commanded to give a tithe or offering to a church please.

Really? I don't have a right to be upset when people say Unkind things? Fine, I won't "rock the boat" anymore. I was just voicing my opinion as a hurt thrown to the curb Christian, but I will say NICE things for you. Can you recommend a site where the 1st amendment still exists, since I'm sure I will be banned soon for not being HAPPY enough for you.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond. One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help. Wow. 2 Corinthians 9:6-12 6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9 As the Scriptures say, “They share freely and give generously to the poor. Their good deeds will be remembered forever.” 10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you. 11 Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12 So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God. I actually agree with those verses. But did you notice something the preachers DON'T mention when reading those? It only says to give to poor and needy. It DOESN'T say give to pastors or churches.

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved. I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness. Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death. 1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. 1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family. i must disagree. If we ARE set free from sin at conversion because of the power of Christ, and scripture says we are NEVER given more than we can take, then ALL sins a christian commits are by choice. We are set free, so we CHOOSE to sin. We can no longer blame satan or anything but ourselves. You are right Taylor, but there are times when a man can be overtaken by Temptation. Not through any fault of God, because as you said, he provides the way of escape, unfortunately we do not always utilize his way of escape. There are times when we are tempted by things that our inner man (our true self) absolutely abhors, but we succumb to it and fall flat on our faces. Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well. 1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If by choose, you mean we do not always utilize God's strength and provisions, then I can agree that we are choosing, but if you mean a born one chooses a lifestyle of sin, as if he enjoys it, I have to say that is foreign to scripture. Through ignorance of the delivering power of God a believer can fall into sin but I guarantee he hates it, and cries out with Paul "Oh wretched man that I am". His nature will not let him "choose" sin. The heaviness of temptation makes it feel like sin still has power when it really doesn't. 1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. I must disagree with your 2nd paragraph. If we TRULY hate our sins, se would NOT allow ourselves to commit them. Since no person lives without sin, we obviously ALL have sins we refuse to give up. Our sins are ALWAYS a choice and ALWAYS our fault.

Sorry, Taylor, but this just sounds a bit on the whiny side. I'm 50 years old and I come home to an empty house each day from work. I've never been married. I don't even have a pet because frankly if I can't afford to care for an animal properly I would rather not have one. I'm in enough debt that unless something changes I will probably never get out from under it all. Yeah, that means I've basically got no "future," and will probably die broke as far as the world sees it. I don't like it, but I've got some peace about it because I know the Lord has a plan -- and that its not all about me. Jesus is for eternity. Go to Jesus . . . He's not going to be surprised when we whine, complain, rant and rave. Read through Psalms - there's lots of honest human emotion in there and God is not surprised by any of it. I doubt very much He's shocked, either, since He knows us better than we know ourselves anyway. Waiting really stinks sometimes, but we don't have the option of running ahead of the Lord. Do what you can as far as seeking a wife while praying and leave the rest to Jesus. If you go out on your own and do things your own way, you'll be headed for nothing but disaster. What, you want a medal? Some people are able to handle being alone. Some are not. DON'T PASS JUDGEMENT ON THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO THINGS AS EASILY AS YOU.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond. One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help.

forgive me for being blunt, but if you have kids you are not even close to being alone. Try going to an EMPTY house with no one there to meet you.

no more complaining huh? OK, i will tell other people that too. When I see broken or suicidal people, I will tell them STOP COMPLAINING.

First I want to start with the notion of what is "supposed" to be happening at your age. None of that comes without a lot of work, sweat, tears, and sacrifice. Loneliness is such a bummer. It can zap you right into depression faster than anything. However, we don't have to take it sitting down! It's hard for people to trust others nowadays.....can you blame them? It takes time AND effort to be a friend, which means there is also a cost for people to come near. The scriptures say that we should show ourselves to be friendly if we want friends. Since I don't know you, there are some questions I need to ask before I could help you. Like: What are you doing to cultivate friendship with people who don't know you? How much time are you willing to give them? Do you ever volunteer to help others in need? Are you a good listener? How much time did you stick around at the churches you mention? How much did you commit to that community? Do you ever discuss your loneliness with people who aren't already close to you? That will drive people away rather quickly, btw, because no one wants to hang out with Debbie Downer, ya know? Without knowing the answers to these questions, we're all guessing in the dark. But one thing I've learned in life is that when you start helping others who can't pay you back....you will find life is rewarding and full of purpose. Friends will just "happen" then. I suggest that you find a place where you can serve. You'll find friends then and there. . i actually did do some volunteer work. The concept of TRUE friendship no longer exists.

Personally I think we need to change our own attitudes first its through us that His light shines. Remember also people are flesh and blood and will be prone to messing up sometimes often in fact, the body of believers are neither perfect or what we often think they should be. The word and idea of 'christianity' gets a rap these days for all kinds of things, often times I think we look for the negative instead of the positive simply because of bad press. I mean we get all kinds of people calling for some type of perfection and thats just not going to happen until He comes and changes us. We also can choose to sit in the pew or put ourselves out there within that body instead of complaining no one likes us or wants to be our friends, if after putting yourself out there and nothing happens find another body that does show His love and Spirit. I also echo Nebula's post sometimes we seem to think we need something and push ourselves to find that perfect mate or friend when its not our timing that is important but His. Prayer is always the best way to go, talk to Him give Him your concerns, your problems and needs as well as wants and then trust Him, thats what faith is all about trusting that He knows better than we do. shalom, Mizz well I don't recall scripture saying, TAYLOR you need to go put yourself out there. i thought it was ALL christian's jobs to reach out. Well i guess that lets me off the hook if I see someone else hurting and alone, since arrording to you its THEIR job to reach out, not my job to reach in.

I have tried. growing close to god doesn't make my empty house any friendlier. And as for waiting for a wife, do you know how many people are Old and alone because they just waited? Is God going to put a woman on my doorstep and introduce me?

Hi Taylor, Jesus fulfilled all the law and prophets. Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." There is no more a need to sacrifice animals for He was the final sacrifice for all. Truth be told: Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” That's kind of been my point. So why do so many christian keep saying we need to obey all the laws?

Really? Then there must be all kinds of Christian "followed-by-a-label" that there are no such things as. Exactly what kind of box does a person have to fit into, in your narrow understanding, to be a Christian? Because every single one of us does something in our lives that is not pleasing to God. We could probably agree that there really is no such thing as a Christian who is a rampant adulterer, homosexual, rapists or child molester, but not Christian because of the way someone dresses? Really? Really? That's like saying there is no such thing as a Christian Cowboy or a Christian Mennonite or a Christian Indian. Goth is just a form of dress and liking different literature and music than someone else. And before you tell me the liturature and music is dark and bad, you could say the same thing about almost any form of music. What you are pushing is legalism. I couldn't have put it better myself. AMEN

But if pastors don't FORCE people to give them money, how will they afford their mansions and sports cars?

If that's a challenge.....

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved. I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness. Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death. 1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. 1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family. i must disagree. If we ARE set free from sin at conversion because of the power of Christ, and scripture says we are NEVER given more than we can take, then ALL sins a christian commits are by choice. We are set free, so we CHOOSE to sin. We can no longer blame satan or anything but ourselves.

I haven't ever met one who is born again who didn't love the Word of God, receive it as authoritative for his life and want to learn more of it. The unregenerate don't hunger for the Word of God as a babe hungers for milk. I agree with that, however what about people who hunger for the word of God but ALSO don't fight against temptation like they should? The first thing I would check is my obedience in fundamental matters. Disobedience is a block to growth, and robs us of our assurance of salvation. Then I would pray fervantly for a change of heart that makes me want to give up my sin, which won't happen over night, but it will happen. When that happens, you will be able to come into obedience, and everything will change. Forgive me but are you suggesting I doubt salvation because I am living in sin?

God created Human beings to love them. He created his creation to express his love to them. God DIDN'T create Adam and Eve in a garden where evil was present. When God finished his creation he called it VERY good. Evil began with Satan in heaven AFTER Adam and Eve were already in the garden. Mankind was not destined to fail and NEED to learn right from wrong. But God DID know they would fail when he created them. That shows God's AMAZING love. he chose to create us knowing full well exactly what we would do.

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

I haven't ever met one who is born again who didn't love the Word of God, receive it as authoritative for his life and want to learn more of it. The unregenerate don't hunger for the Word of God as a babe hungers for milk. I agree with that, however what about people who hunger for the word of God but ALSO don't fight against temptation like they should?

I myself think it is 3 within 3 within 3, the perfect trinity of 27! Not really, but if you're gonna go the extra step might as well take it all the way. Thats funny. So which of the Jesus's do I pray to?

Actually I saw an incredible story on why social security is running out. When it was created, the average life expectancy was only about 67. So thats why it was set at 65. Now people live to their 80's and 90's ALOT more often. It was NEVER designed to support people for 10 or 20 years.

AMEN TO THAT :) Did you know Kenneth Copeland was one of benny Hinn's mentors? They both went to kenneth hagan's school, which has produced a VAST majority of false teachers we see today. yea im awear of copeland and others like him..... one time i heard him say that he could of died on the cross instead of jesus I heard that too. AND that he said God was only inches bigger than him. Hinn once claimed that each member of the trinity was a trinity in itself making 9 members of the Godhead instead of 3. He later recanted but before that had swore up and down he recieved that information by the Holy Spirit.