AnotherSinner

Not the best example here... Still when the hubby and I have pocket change from shopping we give to the salvation army. Otherwise we know a couple families, who like us are not too well off, so if we have something that we are not using that they could use....we give it to them. We do offer what we can to the church too when they bring about special buckets and things for missions. Have been scoffed at in the past by small children in the church when we did not have anything to give. Nearly made me cry right there, but waited till we got home. There are times I almost wish we did have more just so we could give without being looked at so poorly. Then...if one gives what one can with a gracious heart, it is amazing to see what that little bit does. May God Bless You Dani

All mankind is evil in nature. We all are sinful in nature. However, once our lives are given to Christ, it is our duty to flee from such and avoid any temptation to do wrong as best we can. These are just my two cents. Please do not take offense, for none was meant. May God Bless You Dani

Agreed Ayin, just disappointed because this is the second case I have heard of doctors turning the needy out in this past week. First death out of the two instances. Still....if we keep jumping to these conclusions more people who urgently need care are not going to get it. Thank you for your input though Ayin, cause these things DO happen. Just pains me that she knew something was wrong and could not get help.

This is gross negligence on the part of that hospital. But racially motivated? Probably not. My former sister-in-law died from a massive heart attack (she had a known history of heart disease) after being ignored because she was under arrest. She was a 42 year old white woman. I hope Anna Brown's family sues their socks off as my SIL's family should have done. I agree, do not think it was so much a racial issue at all. It was pure negligence. Sad too, she had two children and I worry for them. The stereotype I was referencing is the quick conclusion that because she was homeless, or not financially well off, the conclusion drawn was that she was a drug addict. Just thought I might clarify.

Link: http://global.christianpost.com/news/homeless-mo-mother-dies-in-jail-after-hospital-clears-her-arrest-72377/ Was disgusted, how can any hospital deny a woman who urgently seeks help continuously based off a stereotype? This is a good example of the damage labels and assumptions can do. It can cost someone their life if misplaced! There are other articles, and so far...they do not read much differently. Really disappointed with today's hospitals. Had a cousin -in- law recently try to get her one year old boy treated for a returning 105.6 degree fever and the response she got was "Bring him back when he has a seizure." Her jaw dropped, as did mine upon hearing it. She however, did not give up...and went to another hospital to find that her son's aeorta pumps backward! Had she not gotten him in to this other hospital...I am cringing at the thought of what might have been. Either way...this story is really an eye opener at just how much prayer is needed. My apologies for any offense I may cause, it is not my intent. STORY: A 29-year-old Missouri woman died in a jail cell after local hospital staff told police that she was trespassing for complaining about continual pain after receiving a clean bill of health. After community residents spoke about potential racial profiling being at play, the hospital staff recently defended the way they treated the African-American woman, identified as Anna Brown. On Sept. 21, a homeless Brown refused to leave the St. Mary's Health Center emergency room in Richmond Heights, Mo., after complaining about pain in her legs that kept her from walking. However, the hospital staff called the police, who believed that she might have been on drugs and arrested her for trespassing. Brown had already been examined before police were called to the scene and doctors said she was healthy enough to be taken to jail. After police reportedly dragged the 29-year-old to jail by her hands and feet, because she could not walk, she died minutes later in her cell. "They thought she was a drug seeker," an officer said in a Los Angeles Times report. However, an autopsy report found no drugs in Brown's system. Instead, they found blood clots in her legs and lungs that went untreated by doctors. According to an investigation by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Brown first visited St. Mary's on Sept. 20 with a swollen ankle. During her seven-hour stay she was given ultrasounds on both legs, which reportedly came back negative for blood clots. The investigation also revealed that the 29-year-old mother of two returned twice more to St. Mary's, and refused to leave on the final visit.

Thank for sharing Lady C. Buried mine. Hope to carry that message with me for a while too. It was beautiful.

......WCF....... I am sorry for any and all of you who were hurt, offended, or otherwise angered by any words I have put here. I hope in time you can all forgive me. ......Mizz....... Thanks for posting this.

Have you noticed that you are the only one who is labeling you? We all have the same tendencies and we all need to check to ensure that what we take from what others say is the truth or not. Yes, we all can be gullible, duped, easily led, ect ... That is our nature, to want to believe we are not being lied to. We do this because we have love for people. Yet, we are also given wisdom and His Spirit to show us what is true or not. The flesh fights against the Spirit and we need to be aware when we are leaning more toward our flesh then His Spirit of truth. What do you call someone who believes in God? What do you call someone who works on cars? What do you call a woman who gives birth to a child? Yes, they are labels; the first answer is a Christian, the second is a mechanic and the last is a mother. Now, what do you call someone who lies? What do you call someone who steals? What do you call someone who takes the life of an innocent person? Again, they are labels; the first is a liar, the second is a thief and the last a murderer. Labels are how we categorize groups of people and this is not a bad thing if used rightfully. Yet, I will refuse to discuss your personal feeling in an open forum. If you wish to discuss this with me, you may PM me and I will discuss how you feel you have been labeled. Be in peace. No...thank you though....it just will not amount to anything. Think we can just agree to disagree on the label department. Appreciate your input.

That does make sense. Even I though felt a bit limited with the restrictions though and my intent was not to spam or promote other faiths. Seeing as various ages are accepted here, which is something...I failed to take into consideration, I admit to being in error here. The rankings though here are a bit of a bother...at least in terms of label if one is a believer or not. As I asked before.... do any of us....really ask upon meeting someone that we find we are liking if they are a Christian or not? That is a fair question. Do we ask? I don't believe we need to come right out and ask because we will know them by their fruits. If someone is swearing like a drunk sailor, they are not following God. If they are talking smut about the opposite sex, they are not following God. There are many times when we know without asking, but I have asked those who seem to be a Christian if they are. Some say yes and others say they follow another religion. In the end, we know if they are brothers and sisters. All I am swallowing is sadly what I have seen here. When the request was made to seek their hearts....that is what I did and am still doing. That is also why I went to seek what was in the hearts of the members of thethinkingatheist hoping perhaps to gain some knowledge. Their intentions may not have been good, but what are we taught to do when others mock us? I understand one must be prepared. What I do not understand is why again and again because I harbor sympathy for those who either do not know God or choose not to, that I am being niave. This thread was made....hoping that perhaps we could all reflect, myself included, and learn from this recent mishap with those who sought to test us. Our views here or understanding seems to differ a great deal, but I respect you and have no desire to argue with you. You are entitled to your thoughts of them, me, and the overall situation. May God Bless You Dani I am not reading where anyone is calling anyone naive. In my work, I have to redirect people to what is being said instead of what they think is being said. It is very common to read something into a statement that is not there. We all need to check ourselves to see if what we are telling ourselves is really what is being said. Often times, when we start to read into a statement, we come out with a lie. We start to inject our thoughts into another person words, changing the meaning and making an argument that is not there. I suggest that what you see may be what they want you to see and not the truth. Eve saw that she did not die when she ate the fruit, but the truth is that she did die. How did she take this challenge? By listening to a well versed lie, a twisted truth. She saw exactly what Satan wanted her to see. Because she took him at his word and did not look beyond what was said, history was made for us all. Do not believe what the enemy tells you. Benjamin Franklin said. "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." We were told this in the service as we were being trained. We can, by nature, be deceived easily when we let our guard down. I am highly suggestion to everyone, including myself, to ensure that we are called to the battle or not. God will not send someone unprepared into battle. When we enter a battle unprepared, we do so out of the flesh. It is our pride and arrogance telling us that we are strong enough and knowledgeable enough to win the fight. Because it is done in the flesh, we become wounded and not victorious. This is a spiritual battle, as I brought the scripture to you to show you Maybe I misunderstood you, but when a person believes what they are told....what is the term for that? Gullible? I am trying real hard to be patient and make sure that I am not misunderstanding. Yet feel that I am constantly having to explain myself and my feelings which....is just not right. As I said before, I am speaking from both what I have seen here and from the points of view they have exhibited that unfortunately, are very truly practiced in this forum by myself likely...and others here. We should know one another in accordance to our fruits, not the labels put upon one another the moment we enter a forum. Which sadly, is something that I feel is practiced here. Countless times since I have been here I have seen remarks like this: This is not how humans behave or believe. As a naturalist and materialist, you are not allowed have a view on right and wrong. And they are continuously made over and over to other members here. Even when I felt myself to be subject of insult, and told another I took offense...I was labeled as one who was making false accusations. Still...I apologized. Just...amazes me...how things like this go on and we do nothing to fix it and do not even admit it is going on.

Like I said earlier, Dani, I don't necessarily think you're being naive, I just think God has given you a particularly soft and empathetic heart. And I believe that's a good thing. I have a very strong empathetic side as well, though perhaps not quite as soft a heart as you. I remember discussing with a close Christian friend once about how I believed in going into every new relationship with an open heart and an open mind. And, that as a general rule, I gave pretty much everyone the benefit of the doubt. Meaning, I try (don't always succeed) to not overreact to things that are said, or not said, to me that hurt me in some way. Basically, I assume that most of the time, the hurt is born of me misunderstanding what was said, or because I happened to be having a bad day, with my emotions already on edge so that I took offense when none was intended. The response I got was that I was opening myself up to getting hurt. But I'd much rather be a person who gives others the benefit of the doubt, assuming that they aren't deliberately trying to insult or hurt me, than to throw up a wall around myself and never let anyone close. Or worse, to treat others with suspicion just because of one or even more bad experiences from my past. My only point of true disagreement with you is in the motivation behind the recent events. I don't think they came here to test us. I think they came here to mock us and reading the vast majority of their posts over on TTA only serves to confirm that in my mind. But, as you have said, that is merely my personal opinion and neither you, nor they, are obligated to share or agree with it. If we all agreed on every little issue, the world would be a mighty dull place. To mock or make fun of is what? Simply my brother, a test in faith to me.

That does make sense. Even I though felt a bit limited with the restrictions though and my intent was not to spam or promote other faiths. Seeing as various ages are accepted here, which is something...I failed to take into consideration, I admit to being in error here. The rankings though here are a bit of a bother...at least in terms of label if one is a believer or not. As I asked before.... do any of us....really ask upon meeting someone that we find we are liking if they are a Christian or not? All I am swallowing is sadly what I have seen here. When the request was made to seek their hearts....that is what I did and am still doing. That is also why I went to seek what was in the hearts of the members of thethinkingatheist hoping perhaps to gain some knowledge. Their intentions may not have been good, but what are we taught to do when others mock us? I understand one must be prepared. What I do not understand is why again and again because I harbor sympathy for those who either do not know God or choose not to, that I am being niave. This thread was made....hoping that perhaps we could all reflect, myself included, and learn from this recent mishap with those who sought to test us. Our views here or understanding seems to differ a great deal, but I respect you and have no desire to argue with you. You are entitled to your thoughts of them, me, and the overall situation. May God Bless You Dani

After much thought and well...reading up on some of the recent activity here at WCF..... I took myself somewhere I was honestly scared to go and look. Where would that be? www.thethinkingatheist.com Why? To try to understand why they came here. Even more so, to get not only what they got out of WCF, but understand more their views of Christians. Tears fell upon reading. Yet, can I blame them? No...in all honesty I cannot. Here is some things I found that they felt were not being done... 1.Treat others as you would want to be treated; don't judge them and condemn them with imposed bigotry. Take ownership for your actions. (Quoted Kingschosen) Apparently they feel that we are too quick to cast judgment. In a way, I cannot argue with this. For I have been guilty of it here when something is said that I do not like or agree with. It is something I battle with even now. 2. While they ride their high horses and pretend to be who they think they are I'll watch them ride off into the sunset from my perch in reality. (Quoted Lucradis) A holier than thou persona seems to be felt as well. Humilty is something I agree...that perhaps we all should work a little harder towards. Myself included. For we are to humble ourselves before God and to love one another...be it friends, family, or even those who resent or hate us. 3. Modesty doesn't exactly coincide with forum name. (Quoted Lucradis) We clearly have come across to some as boastful. Will admit....in chat....there was an instance that I realized that the forums are not read much. Was a bit disappointed. Then I may have misunderstood. For I had inquired as to if anyone had bothered to look into the views of those who recently came here...and found not many have. That too..was disappointing. 4. Really? REALLY? That's basically all you guys do. Judge, judge, judge. Have you even considered that maybe, just maybe your actions are being judged because they're wrong? I seriously can't get over this self-righteousness. It's appalling. (Quoted Kingschosen) This is something again that is being mentioned. What is sad is yes, it is being done and not just to them, but we are also quick to pass judgement on one another. 5. But they segregate the population. (Quoted Ludacris) I felt this too coming here...and I have been here maybe two weeks now. When you look for friendship do you ask first: What religion do you practice? If we are to witness to others and build up one another's faith in God, how can we do this if we are already divided? I would apologize for offense here, but I just ....I just cannot because we need to see this. We need to see how we are viewed as Christians through the eyes of some of the VERY SAME PEOPLE we are supposed to be ministering to. My intentions are not to condemn anyone here, but rather to enlighten. For I too am guilty of most, if not all these things. Just instead of saying how they wronged us...maybe we should be asking...how can we better minister and show God's love to them? How could we have been better examples of Christ's love? I post this ready to take full responsibility for the reaction it may cause.... but God laid it on my heart to talk about this....it is something that does need to be addressed and it is something I feel has been avoided since it first came to be. May God Bless You Dani

This topic makes me think of a shirt my dad had and wore a lot when I was growing up. Especially when we went to Roswell (Alien Town you could call it with all the alien stuff there) for a Christian Band Concert. It read: Every Knee Shall Bow. On it was a picture of an Alien Down On Bended Knee....

I do want to take this moment to thank Mizzdy once again too, despite any differences we may or may not have....there has been nothing but respect given. Patience too, and it is much appreciated. With that being said.....Please lock the thread.... this topic has taken a really ugly turn. I am so sorry.....this was not what was intended for this topic. Came to learn and perhaps find out if indeed there was any possible misunderstanding in terms of a woman's position in the church. Really am disappointed it ended up like this. Sorry Candice, sorry OneLight. May God Bless You Dani

Dani, What a great attitude! Its ok if we dont agree! I wish more would take that notion and firmly implant that in their brains! So thank you for saying what you did. I often discuss scripture without posting a ton of scriptures and like to hear how others see, view, scriptures and that is what we find the apostles doing with the assembly of believers after leaving the temple/synagogues each Sabbath. It is true that we often take things way too literally in scriptures, not everything is black and white, there are allegories, similies, metaphors and idioms, types and anti-types to take into consideration. What can we say about what Yeshua said to Saul in Acts 9:5 "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads." Those who take all words all scriptures as literal, with literal meanings for each phrase would be hard to come up with why He said this I would think or perhaps where we can find its meaning in scriptures. Its actually from a Greek story or play, cant remember which so would Yeshua be saying that Greek ideals and sayings are something we should learn about to understand why He said this? I don't think thats the case at all, yet it shows how we should see the content and contexts of what is being talked about. Taking Pauls stance against things happening in this culture, this particular group as a broadbrush stroke suggesting that God said it and now its a commandment just doesn't seem to add up. Now authority is a different beast altogether and I think theres a lot to be said for why a woman finds herself as the 'head' of a congregation when theres a bunch of men sitting in the benches listening, theres more going on there than just headship. Thanks again for the post! shalom, Mizz Mizz, You are very right, we do need to be very careful. Not only that we do not always take scripture too literally but that we do not lean too much on our own understanding. As you have shown here, we need to search...search...search....after all....one literal belief I do hold that is in scripture is "seek and ye shall find." That is one area we can surely agree on for sure, right? You really are welcome Mizz. As I said, it takes some real courage and what you shared here is not just your opinion. It is something you have done some obvious reading on. I appreciate that. That is really all I have been asking for from the begining is if opinions are differing...that some support is given to your point of view. May God Bless You Dani

link We too often fail to see the content and context of what Paul of the situation he was writing about, history tells us some good things. Applying that context onto all churches, all woman is not what Paul was saying nor suggesting. It all comes back to authority and respect which frankly I dont see much of being shown by some. Please read the rest at the link. Mizzdy, Thank you for sharing this link. There is a chance I may have been looking at this from a literal stand point, not going to attest to anything more beyond that yet. Going to do some serious praying here. As I, myself, have wanted to share God's word beyond a forum or message board but have hesitated due to this very debated issue. Will still refrain from doing so until God speaks to me to push further in my education to work on doing so. This link though has offered some insight and opens a few doors. Scriptural or at least insight beyond opinion was all I asked here and you have given some for me to look into. Not one of us is going to understand every passage the exact same way, so I must commend your courage in sharing and really express my gratitude in your sharing. Whether or not we end up being in agreement here, it takes a lot of courage to step out there and you did. Thank you.... May God Bless You Dani

Sounds like a good answer to me. Thank you Tyler for your reccomendations too. May have to compose myself a list of some good reading material here in the very near future. May God Bless You Dani

Absolutely, Ms. Hurlbert, it's all about them not liking Obama and has nothing at all to do with the fact that it's simply WRONG to alter the flag in any way, much less in one this tasteless. Seems the vets tried to tell her this by providing her with a copy of the federal flag code, but she doesn't seem to think that applies to images of Obama. The worst part? Of course it is. That is shameful.... Obama is just a man. One of many who has taken the role of president. It is really unfortunate that it has gone so far as to idolize him. This is a matter that really needs prayer. I apologize if my opinion is one that causes offense, none was intended. Will not push the matter and humbly agree to disagree. May God Bless Dani

Every member here had to have 100 posts to post there.....it isn't just you. Well, here is my two cents. Worthy has to know who is coming in; imagine letting atheists, muslims or whatever post whatever they want to throw out there. I apologize if it came across that I felt it was only me. Please allow me to clarify. The limitations in terms of beliefs and number of posts seems to be a means to make others feel unwelcome. So I am in agreement with the assessment they made there. I understand that no one wants a lot of Christian hate or God hate filling up the forums. At the same time, if we do not welcome them with open arms how can we possibly expect to reach some of them with God's love? We allow them in, but with expectations of cruelty on their part....that attitude speaks volumes. If this is the expectations we have for them, can we imagine the expecations they have of us? It is rather frightening just to consider. I will understand if my opinions are not shared, and will humbly agree to disagree without pushing the matter further. There is much to be learned from what has happened here.... May God Bless You Dani

One thing...I can agree with them on is the limitation. Even as a believer, I was limited to where I could post. So more intense discussion that would have been the most insightful and educational for me I was denied until I made 100 posts. The guilty till proven innocent thing rang bells for me.... Do not think it was right that they played us...but can we perhaps learn something from it....like perhaps...maybe not to segregate so much. Have been member of other christian forums and they did not right up off the bat inquire as to my beliefs. It is hard to feel welcome when there is already separation from the begining..... Just my two cents....

I am going to make my reply short and simple. This is what I have come to see and think others think of Christians: We are a joke, we talk about a great many things that we do not practice ourselves. We are judgemental, we judge and condemn others and do not look at the faults in ourselves. We gossip about others, believing or non. Making their sins a big deal.....and not realizing that we cast a poor reflection of God when we do this as has already been done in this thread to a point. It is embarrassing.... This is probably going to get me into trouble, and I cannot say I am sorry because I once was a nonbeliever. So I can say openly that this is what they see. Especially when we allow our churches to conform to society's standards of moral. ....With that being said...I am bowing out. Do not want to dirty this thread anymore than it already has. God Bless Dani

Bible.org huh? Thanks. I will look into that.

Onelight, You are bringing out some very interesting points...how does one know though? How do we know when the understanding of scripture is not our own? There are a few ways. One is to learn to listen to His Spirit, which is usually a quiet voice in you directing you. We sometimes are so much into our own heads that we fail to hear His direction. We need to be quiet and seek His direction through prayer and meditation in His words. Another way is to take what our new stance says and place it beside scripture in its fullness, not just the few verses we have taken to create this new understanding. Be a Berean! Still another would be to seek counsel from elders. The more feedback you get, the more eyes see and critique. Berean? I am not familiar with that term...can you...enlighten me please? God's word is important just want to make sure that my own understanding is not the central core of what I believe...and that it is indeed God speaking to me. Been given a lot of labels lately because of my beliefs and just want to make sure that I am really on God's side. Also want to walk better in faith. May God Bless You Dani The Berean are people from Berea. Here is were we read about them. Noticed the underlined ... Acts 17:10-12(NKJV) Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. Onelight, Thank you. I appreciate the explanation and the scriptural support. Know that I do not need to be too literal, just I do like referring to God's word. It is the only way I can think of to help me not to lean too much on my own understanding as that is something I do feel we all do at times... just want to know the truth and share only it. Now is the time it is needed most. Thanks again May God Bless You Dani

I do have a xanga account...guess you could sort of say they are a blog...go by Burresor there.

....Do not or have not really shared this with anyone before..... Over a year ago, a family issue cost me my job. Around that same time, my husband too had lost his job. These were frightening days, ones even now...that are hard to bear remembering. By God's good grace, my hubby's family took us in. Still, there was the issue of getting there. In those days we had no vehicle. Giving up everything had it been a necessity, we were about ready to do. Somehow though.....God provided us with the friends who had the means to get us there. It took us nearly a year to recover and find our own home as well as jobs. In that time, while we were looking for our own place to live and jobs to get us back on our feet, we ended up pregnant with our youngest (who just turned one) who was born....strangely enough a week after we moved into our own place. Faith was hard to come by then...it wained and wavered....did not fully lose it, but did come close. In a way, I feel when I do bible study that I am really a Peter....I have faith in abundance when I first step out of the boat. The minute though I see those raging waters, I doubt and start to sink..... Thank you for posting this...we all could use a little reminder. Know I sure needed it. May God Bless You Dani