Holy Joe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just who and what Jesus was and is...... well, that's not so simple. The problem is that most people's defination of the word "God" is not what the Greek and Hebrew words mean. Greek and Hebrew use the same word for Baal, Marduk and other gods as they do for Jesus and the Father...... and the Spirit for that matter. The capitol G was put there by the transllators to set aside that they were talking about "our" God. The word "god" is a descriptive word, it's not an entity. it can be used to represent things like carved trees and even for money or wealth..... I know people who's god is sex and or drugs or any number of things that one dedicated his/'her life to. What Jesus was is so hard to wrap your mind around that John just called him the Word. I see it different. John 1 isn’t talking about Jesus it is talking about what happens in a person when they receive from God His Spirit, Christ in you. It is talking about what happens in you when you receive from God His Spirit. You become His living word. The word that is made flesh is you. In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word and no one escapes this who is to be in Christ. It is Christ in you who is His living word. John said there is one coming after him who he can’t give you, it is the Christ in you who John couldn’t give because that comes only from God himself just as John said it does. And Jesus when he was baptized received the same from God, God came to that man and opend all of heaven to him. It is this what comes into man that John spoke of. Even Jesus received the same. See Matt 3:16. And you are not going to understand this until you receive in you the same as John and Jesus received. Joe

Whoa there Joe, you make it sound like the use of tongues is a measure of a persons faith, show us where it says that in the Bible. When was the last time you raised somebody from the dead? It is a measure of faith and most don’t even have that. Tell me how one can speak in tongues if he doesn’t use that measure of faith to do it?. And tell me how one could raise the dead if there is no faith that you can, and tell me how you might heal the sick if there is no faith? You miss the whole point in tongues and exercising your faith. Can you do any of these with out faith? And It has been a few years sense one was raised from the dead. But then who will believe it -- You? No you won’t! You have to see it right? I figured that – after all it would take faith to believe that someone even Jesus could do that now wouldn’t it? By the way, I was raised from the dead. Don’t believe that either do you? Joe 7 years ago, and not my brother nor I, but Jesus through our prayers. The prayer? "Not him Lord, not today". Speaking in tongues is easy after seeing Jesus at work like that. Anything is easy to believe in His name after that..... That's interesting Fez, sounds like a good real life story to learn by. Was it a near death experiences or somebody that was declared dead by doctors and with God's will, came back to life? I've heard of such cases, but I never talked to anyone who has witnessed it or anyone who came back to life. (I truly believe it is possible) I totally agree -- It is easy to believe after that. Myself in 1966 I was nineteen years old when I died on an operating table at St Josephs Hospital in Fort Worth Texas resulting from head injuries sustained from an auto accident. A person in Christ believed God that I would come back from death and here I am today. So it is easy for me to believe the same. We talk of having faith in Jesus Christ for him to to accomplish whatever it may be, but what we don’t hear from our pulpits is, it is you who is supposed to have His kind of faith at work in you, Christ in you, just as that lady did who believed for me. Jesus stated to those who came to him -- like the one who had the lunatic son who often fell into the fire and into a ditch, and another who had a sick loved one that least he come he will die. Jesus said, go your faith has made them whole. Jesus didn’t say His faith made them whole but his faith working in them made them whole. The blind man didn’t have a clue what Jesus looked like, all he knew was if he believed he would be healed and he exercised his faith to see that what he had not seen before and accomplish a seeming impossibility. If he didn’t exercise his faith that he had in Christ, meaning -- Christ in him, his eyes never would have been opened. There is a vast difference in having faith in Christ and having the faith of Christ, we are to have His faith. And when we have His faith working in us we can do all things through the Christ that is in us who gives us His strength. When we first start our walk with Jesus we have faith in him that he will do what he says he will do. But when that prophecy is actually fulfilled and Christ is revealed in you, Christ formed in you, then we become like him just as Paul said we do and only then have we have picked up that cross and continued where he left off just as he commanded us to do. And Jesus said that in that day you will ask me nothing but go to the Father for yourself. John 16:23. And with no faith even Jesus couldn’t do anything in some because they didn’t believe, they didn’t have the faith that comes with Christ in you. Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Joe

I think you missunderstood me. I didnt say those speaking in tongues had more faith then those who don’t -- And to answer your question where does it say that in the bible? -- It doesn’t say that in the bible at all. I said it takes faith to do it, it takes exercising ones faith to speak in tongues is what I said. And I said the message in speaking in tongues is to the individual and that message is – it takes using your faith to accomplish that task. And I said most cant muster enough faith to even accomplish that simple task, let alone heal the sick, prophecy, or raise the dead. All the gifts are open to all who will exercise faith to use them. We all have the same measure of faith, exercising that faith the issue. And Ro 12:3-8 as you quote is perfect example of that measure of faith. And in Ep 4:11-13 apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers, equip those for the work of ministry – but here is the kicker – 13. Until we ALL attain the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God and obtain the fullness of Christ. When we receive in us the same thing as Jesus had in him as stated above in the fullness of CHrist then all of these things are added to you, nothing lacking. Having the knowledge of the son of God and obtaining the fullness of Christ is Christ in you. Same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus. Now if we have obtained His promise that He will come to us and be in us and that we will be like Him if we have obtained His fullness, then all of these gifts are at work in your being same as it was at work in Jesus no different at all. A son of God is exactly that and the Father is not going to give something to one son that He isn’t willing to give to another. If one is a teacher and cannot prophecy it doesnt mean that he can’t prophecy, it only means he hasn’t received that fullness is all -- and stuck in his own measure of faith to do his task at hand. Christ in you is not limited to gifts, Christ in you is you working in Gods fullness. Joe

Whoa there Joe, you make it sound like the use of tongues is a measure of a persons faith, show us where it says that in the Bible. When was the last time you raised somebody from the dead? It is a measure of faith and most don’t even have that. Tell me how one can speak in tongues if he doesn’t use that measure of faith to do it?. And tell me how one could raise the dead if there is no faith that you can, and tell me how you might heal the sick if there is no faith? You miss the whole point in tongues and exercising your faith. Can you do any of these with out faith? And It has been a few years sense one was raised from the dead. But then who will believe it -- You? No you won’t! You have to see it right? I figured that – after all it would take faith to believe that someone even Jesus could do that now wouldn’t it? By the way, I was raised from the dead. Don’t believe that either do you? Joe 7 years ago, and not my brother nor I, but Jesus through our prayers. The prayer? "Not him Lord, not today". Speaking in tongues is easy after seeing Jesus at work like that. Anything is easy to believe in His name after that..... That's interesting Fez, sounds like a good real life story to learn by. Was it a near death experiences or somebody that was declared dead by doctors and with God's will, came back to life? I've heard of such cases, but I never talked to anyone who has witnessed it or anyone who came back to life. (I truly believe it is possible)

Whoa there Joe, you make it sound like the use of tongues is a measure of a persons faith, show us where it says that in the Bible. When was the last time you raised somebody from the dead? 7 years ago, and not my brother nor I, but Jesus through our prayers. The prayer? "Not him Lord, not today". Speaking in tongues is easy after seeing Jesus at work like that. Anything is easy to believe in His name after that..... That's interesting Fez, sounds like a good real life story to learn by. Was it a near death experiences or somebody that was declared dead by doctors and with God's will, came back to life? I've heard of such cases, but I never talked to anyone who has witnessed it or anyone who came back to life. (I truly believe it is possible)

Prayer is for one thing and that is direct communication with God, we don’t pray to get things from God we pray in communication with God. Prayer doesn’t change things, in prayer we change and then we change things. I hear people all the time say, well God just doesn’t listen to me, He doent love me, because He didn’t answer my prayer and they go away dishearten because God didn’t pay any attention to them. What these do not understand is … by prayer God changes us and then we change our situation. For example -- One may pray -- Lord I need a job, please give me a job, but if one just sits and waits for that job to come knocking at the door likely it isn’t going to happen. But if one pay Lord help me find that job and then go and seek in earnest -- it will come about no matter who you are because one will create his own environment with the inspiration of God communicating into you the way to go about it. Prayer is a life in Christ and if Christ be in you, same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus, then you cant help but pray without ceasing. You walk as He walks. Joe

It is only gibberish to those who do not understand what it is and what it is for. Those of the day thought it was gibberish and that these folk were drunk, they didn’t understand either due to ignorance. Try and understand instead of belittling what you do not understand about it. Seek and you will find but you have to seek if you are to find. Are you willing is the real issue here. Joe

You did not answer my question. Do you believe Jesus was a mere man, or do you believe He is God, the Son? Yet, I will answer yours. I am suggesting that we are not God, as Christ is. Just because we have the Holy Spirit does not mean we are anywhere close to being God. The Holy Spirit created a new creation in us, and have the mind of Christ (thinking like He did) allows us a deeper understanding of scripture. Nowhere in scripture does God tell us we will be little gods here, of exactly like His Son because we have the Holy Spirit. That is adding to scripture. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 1 Corinthians 2:16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. There is a huge gap between what scripture says and what you are bring here. Jesus said he was son of God so I have to take him at his word. God came to Jesus by His Spirit in Matt 3:16 and changed that man’s life and I have to take that by his word. And Jesus prayed to his God in John 17 and when he was crucified asking Father forgive them and I have to take that as his word. And I have to look at the same Spirit that is in me who was in Christ Jesus and I have to say the God that came to Jesus by His Spirit is the same one who came to me by His same Spirit and I have to say He is not a man but as Spirit and resides in the man, He resides in me the same as His son. And to your comment of -- I am suggesting that we are not God, as Christ is. Just because we have the Holy Spirit does not mean we are anywhere close to being God. The Holy Spirit created a new creation in us, and have the mind of Christ (thinking like He did) allows us a deeper understanding of scripture. Nowhere in scripture does God tell us we will be little gods here, of exactly like His Son because we have the Holy Spirit. That is adding to scripture. So you are suggesting that Christ in you is not the same one who was in Jesus? Do you know what Christ means? It means to be anointed of God, the anointed one, Christ in you, Jesus was Christ because he was anointed of God. And if the Holy Spirit created a new creation in us as you described you ought to be like Him, walk as He walks, same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus, and if you have the same mind what would set you apart from Him? A deeper understanding is to have the exact same thing in you who was in Christ Jesus. And why do you suggest we are little gods? Do you not have the same thing in you that Jesus had in him? If you don’t then I would take a second look at why God sent Jesus to show you His way, and His way for you is the way of Jesus Christ. And the huge gap between scripture you speak of is your suggestion that you cant be like Him when in fact Jesus was sent by God to teach and give to you the exact same thing as he had. He really is the way, the way you are supposed to be. Walking in his same light is to have what he had. If you are any different from Him then you follow a different way from Him. Joe

Ive stated before, tongues is a message to you, to the individual and that message is – It takes using your faith to accomplish and manifest a task. And no matter what language one speaks, English, French, Spanish, what ever, those who speak in tongues understand that same message. And in Acts they all understood the same thing and so do we all who speak. The message in tongues is it takes faith to do it. The message is to the individual, it is a lesson in using faith. Tongues is least of the gifts yet most cant even muster enough faith to speak in tongues, let alone heal the sick of raise the dead. Some use tongues almost like a religion and worship it as evidence one had Gods Holy Spirit saying you must speak in tongues to have Gods Spirit. But that isn’t evidence one has Gods Holy Spirit, it is evidence one used faith to manifest what wasn’t before. Everyone who has what Jesus had in him has Gods Holy Spirit. And those who do, these signs follow. God isn’t going to zap you with these gifts, you have to use your faith to accomplish. Joe Which is????

If Christ be in you, same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus, and have the mind of Christ, then what would be the difference in the one who was in Jesus? Are you suggesting that you have a different Christ in you from the one who was in Jesus Christ? Joe You are speaking of those in Christ, right? Yes I am speaking of those who have in their being that what Jesus had in him. Same anointing, Christ in you, Christ simply means to be anointed of Gods Spirit, the anointed one, God in the man, same anointing in you who was in Jesus. Joe You have me scratching my head here. Are you saying that Jesus was only a mere man who had an anointing; being just a mere man, we can be exactly like Christ? Please clarify ...

I think you all are missing the point in tongues all together. Joe

In Matt 3:16 we read where God came to Jesus by His Spirit and opened all of heaven to him. Jesus life changed at that moment in his life he was not the same after that. The ones he used to teach to in the temples are the same ones who rejected him after that event. Jesus wasnt born with that knowledge else it wouldnt have been necessary for God to come to that man and open heaven to him. And the same thing happened in Paul on the road to Damascus, and 120 in an upper room, and Moses on the mountain and in me. God does the anointing in the person and He does it by coming to that person and opening up His kingdom in you. Christ in you, same one who was in Jesus, same anointing, same Christ, same Spirit, same mind. And one will never know what Jesus experienced until one receive the same for himself. Joe You are speaking of those in Christ, right? Yes I am speaking of those who have in their being that what Jesus had in him. Same anointing, Christ in you, Christ simply means to be anointed of Gods Spirit, the anointed one, God in the man, same anointing in you who was in Jesus. Joe You have me scratching my head here. Are you saying that Jesus was only a mere man who had an anointing; being just a mere man, we can be exactly like Christ? Please clarify ...

The fullness of the Holy Spirit is you have in you what Jesus had in him. God sent Jesus to show us what it is to have Gods Spirit. If one has Gods Spirit as Jesus had Gods Spirit then the evidence is we are like Him and one with the Father and do the things Jesus did and more and that takes faith. Tongues are only an exercise in faith and it is the easiest for using faith, least of the gifts. Most people cant muster enough faith to even do the most simple exercise in faith and speak in tongues let alone heal the sick, raise the dead -- and these signs do follow those who have His Spirit and exercise His faith. Watch how people will remark negatively to that last statement and make excuses why I cant or they can’t do these things. And then the question arise – Well Joe, do you heal the sick and raise the dead. And my reply is I can’t do many mighty works in some because of peoples doubt and unbelief. Jesus had the same problem. Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. And it wasn’t because Jesus didn’t have the faith to do it, it was that people didn’t have faith and believe that he could. And most don’t believe it now when the same is presented to them. Joe It is an evidence of the presence of the fullness of the Holy Spirit in a life. There are other evidences, but tongues is the most easily read manifestation.

The antichrist isn’t after a Christian, a Christian is Christ like and has what Jesus had and the antichrist is already defeated and has no power over us at all. It is those who say they follow the way of Christ yet deny to be like Him are the deceivers and antichrist. One can stand in a pulpit and teach the law and look holy but if he denies he can have and be as Jesus was is totally against the one God sent to teach and give for us to be. It is Christ in you who makes us one with Him and as He is and walk in His light even as He is in the light. How many actually follow the way of Christ? I tell you few who find His way and are like Him. As in John 17 we who have received are one with the Father we are the same, same mind, Spirit. In this the antichrist has no part. It is those who are not like Him who are against Him even though they say they are of Christ. The revealing factor is we have the same things in us Jesus had in him and display the same as he did. Joe

God doesn’t want our lil ole 10% man wants that, God wants your 100%. Joe

I wonder how much of this we will be seeing in the near future. I am at home asking God to help me find others like myself who are tired of the lies within the modern churches. JohnDB, thanks for the read. Gary You are welcome. Personally I do not depend on man to disciple me, my education comes from God Himself, His same Spirit in me who was in Christ Jesus. If one is deluded it because one is looking toward man for his education and man can only give you opinions. Christ in you opens all of Gods kingdom and nothing is hidden. The revelation of the Christ is Christ in you. Luke 17:21 Behold the kingdom of God is within you. If Christ be in you how can you be deluded? We walk in the same light Jesus walked in. Joe How can one be deluded and have the spirit of Christ in them? Poor spiritual hearing. It happens to many. Gary If one has poor spiritual hearing he is trying to figure this out on his own. One cant have poor spiritual hearing and be in Christ, that is impossible. God is a Spirit and one must worship Him in Spirit. If one has Gods Spirit in you, who is the Christ, Gods anointing, how can one have poor spiritual hearing? We who have Gods Spirit all of heaven is opened to us, noting is hidden and all things pertaining to is revealed in us. The revelation of the Christ is Christ in you. Joe

You are speaking of those in Christ, right? Yes I am speaking of those who have in their being that what Jesus had in him. Same anointing, Christ in you, Christ simply means to be anointed of Gods Spirit, the anointed one, God in the man, same anointing in you who was in Jesus. Joe

And tongues are not evidence one has received the Holy Ghost, tongues is evidence one exercised faith. The evidence one has received Gods Holy Spirit is he does the things Jesus did, and Paul, and all of those who received the same from God even Jesus. Matt 3:16. Only then was it manifest to do the things of God if we have the same as these did. Christ manifest in you and walk in the same light as He. Joe

As I said, the message in tongues is to the individual and that message is -- and lesson learned -- it takes exercising faith to accomplish the task at hand. Joe

Everything we do is driven by law. The law dictates even the minute tasks of everyday life. For instance – Don’t steal, or pay the priceif you do Don’t kill or pay the price if you do Don’t chase the neighbors wife.or pay the price if you do The law says set the alarm so you may be at work on time or pay the consequences of not doing so.. The law says wear shoes or you will pay the consequences of not doing so. The law says put gas in car, put key in car start car put car in gear don’t break speed limit, stop at stop signs, signal turns, go to grocery store, eat the food you bough, follow the law in preparation of the food. Every task you encounter is law driven, and we establish the law. Break any one of them and you pay for doing so. Now on the other hand is another set of laws. Walk as He walks, Let this same mind be in you who was in Christ Jesus, Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect Let this same Spirit be in you who was in Christ Jesus. Heal the sick, raise the dead, speak in tongues, Be one with God as Jesus was one with Him, He in you and you in Him as one. Which of these laws above and below is more likely to be broken? The 10 laws is for those who do not know God personally, it is for to sustain the flesh man from destroying himself. and it is impossible to keep the whole law. Break any one of them and you are guilty of all -- especially in the latter of these laws I just wrote. Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. (Mature) Now how many break that law? Joe

1 John 2:18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. The antichrist is anyone who does not believe they can be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach and give to us to be as one with Him, He in you and you in Him as one. There are many who do not believe they can walk as he walks or be and have as Jesus had, denying the very one God sent to teach us His way, he is the way … the way we are supposed to be. Examining self just might bring to light who the antichrist really is. Are we like Him or not? Many say they follow the way of Christ but are not like Him at all even denying him that they can be like Him. Joe

Jesus spent thirty years in peace and the last three years of his life suffering and in terror. He didn’t ask for his fate . Did satan implore God to let him torment as Job? The underlying in these as Job and Jesus and Paul Peter, James John, all who suffered great loss even life, is, what they had inside them. Was satan allowed to do to these to see if these would curse God and die? No they knew going into it what was to be expected, Jesus even tells us if we do the same things he did and put on the Christ for ourselves we will be put to the same test as these. It isn’t because satan was tempting God, it is because God is tempting satan. No matter who you are things in life will be thrown at you, how we handle them is a matter of what is inside us. Christ in you is the hope of glory and in Christ the matters of this word are of naught. Is. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (calamity): I the LORD do all these things. The only reason satan has a part in this is because God was the one who created that subtle one in the garden in the first place, more subtle than all the creatures he created. Gen 3. Things that happened as Job, and Jesus, and all of those men is to be expected in our own life and how we handle them is our peace or our demise. Joe

Obedience is better than sacrifice. If the demand is that I submit and bow and in obedience do so -- not because of demand but because of reverence – then my mind is at peace. But if I bow against my will then it becomes a sacrifice that I do so and my mind is in turmoil. I submit myself as a servant and bow to all, but my inheritance is I own everything. Jesus submitted to authority not because he had to but because he was servant to all. Demanded is we are to walk in His salvation, It is easy to say I follow the Christ yet quite the other to actually do it. It isn’t an easy thing to give up the right to ourselves and in obedience bow to Him and put on the Christ for ourselves, we want to do it our way and skip the part where we submit and actually walk as He walks and do it His way. His way is not our way, His way is the way of Jesus Christ and to bow to that and put on the Christ as Jesus had the Christ goes against everything we have been taught by man. I bow not in rebellion to authority but in reverence. This may goad some but -- If the Pope were to stand before me I would bow, or kiss his hand, then try and lead the man to the Christ as Jesus had the Christ, Anointed of God. It is a matter of perspective how we view things. Joe

What makes JWs different from any other denomination? All denominations are driven by laws for tradition. Go to one church and they say, you must speak in tongues, go to the church down the street and they say tongues passed away and another says this and another says that, Catholics believe one thing, Baptist believe another, Church of Christ believes yet another and so on. Ask each one who is right and you will get the same answer from each, and in their own mind they all are right. They all believe what their laws dictate for them to believe. But one thing that happens in the individual that sets him apart from these is, Christ in you. When this is evident in you then you are set apart, Christ formed in you, and then just as Jesus was you will not be allowed in these establishments because of the threat of freedom from them and their laws for tradition which hold people to their enterprise. We in Christ are free from all of these, free indeed. Joe

As I read through different doctrines and bylaws for different churches one thing becomes obvious in them all and it is if you do not believe as they do you cannot be a part of that establishment. In Christ there is only one thing he demands from us if we are to be in Him and that is to be one with the Father as he was one with Him. John 17. When we are that person of Christ that God sent Jesus to teach and give to us to be, these doctrines and bylaws established by man are overruled. Christ in you is the same one who was in Jesus, anointed of Gods Spirit, if you have that same anointing and one with the Father as Jesus was one with the Father, John 17, then all of heaven is opened to you and no need any man teach you because your education comes from God himself. Jesus said in John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing, verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Asking in his name means we have the same right in power to use it as Jesus did. This ruffles the feathers of the religious denominations because it takes away from their own glory. Joe