Rick

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Yeppers! What Gary be tawk'n bout! Uh huh! Das right as rain! Ya'll kin sho nuff laugh now, but whatcha gonna do when we getz ta heaven's an we all tawk dis way? Huh? Huh? What Din? Huh? :t:

There's many anti-christ. But the one you specifically mentioned in the end times, will be indwelt with Satan as well. The same spirit of Satan that indwelt Judas. Being Satan himself. I dont think this anti-christ is going to repent either. Which according to your logic, he very well could. But because his fate was sealed after his rebellion in heaven, he has no place to repent. In addition, the fact that he was not counted among the apostles after his betraying Jesus would indicate that he didnt repent and seek forgiveness or else he might have obtained it and been restored , which he wasnt. Instead he chose to take his life. Peter was desired to be sifted by Satan , but Jesus revealed that he had prayed for him that his faith fail not. Ever wonder why Jesus didnt pray that Judas's faith fail not? Or why He did not keep Judas as He did the others? He lost non except the son of perdition that the scriptures might be fulfilled. Lost ? Lost to what?

we will have to wait til we get to heaven to know if Judas repented. the Bible tells us that he repented to the chief priests, but does not indicate whether he repented to God. Judas indeed was mentioned as having showed repentance in that he returned the money he was given for betraying Jesus. But the question of his repentance lies in what was he remorseful of? Was it that he had betrayed innocent blood ? He acknowledged that he did. Being sorrowful for sin does not in itself bring forgiveness for sin. Being remorseful over accepting money for a wrong does not mean forgiveness of sin as well. Somthing that jumps out to me is that even though he was remorseful, he never asked to be forgiven. Instead, we are told things about Judas that may imply that more was actually taking place within him than we realize. for example, " While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: Those that Thou gavest Me I have kept. and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition: that the scripture might be fufilled." John 17:12 This verse implies that one of them was lost. The son of perdition, that the scriptures might be fulfilled. In this verse, Jesus also says He kept the others. He watched over them protected them etc. The scriptures refer to Judas as a devil. and we are told that satan entered into him. " Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil ? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for it was he that should betray Him, being one of the twelve." John 6:70-71. " Then entered Satan into judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve." Luke 22:3 There is a clear distinction here that it was more than a mere demon or devil that entered into Judas. But Satan Himself. The mention of the son of perdition being lost in John 17:12 reveals Jesus indeed knew who was in control in Judas. The son of perdition is again mentioned in Thessalonians, revealing what this title entails. " Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. " 2 Thess. 2:3- 4. We are also told that Judas went to his own place. I often wondered why it was described as his own place. But believe it to be because of what that place was prepared for. " That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship by which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25 " Then shall He say to them on His left hand, depart from Me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and His angels." Matt. 25:41. This may not clear the issue up, but hopefully it will show that Jesus indeed knew that He was dealing with Satan through Judas. And that the repentance that Judas showed was not a repentance that led to his asking for forgiveness, or one that would change the title he acquired as the son of perdition, by the indwelling Satan. Rick

ROFL!!! It's a great release! I have to admit, there have been times I have had to re-read a few sentences myself to understand them. But I learned quickly that a light hearted approach sure brings laughter and is good for the soul. I agree wordsower. God will give understanding when we ask. " " Now we have received , not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things to spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:12-14.

Only since the garden? Jesus was there in the beginning. Before the Garden of Eden, before the creation of the world. An all knowing God knew that man would fall and provided a sacrifice for sins from the foundation of the world. Grace existed from the beginning, it was not a new creation for an unexpected event. Maybe you meant when God's grace was first exercised in the Garden ? But even in that, It was exercised also from the beginning by God's preparation for a yet future event to transpire on the Earth, but one that was already present for God. He see's the beginning from the end. We in time see moment by, but not so with God. I Thank God for Jesus Christ! Rick

ROFL!!!!! Gary started it! It's addictive!

-WeLLLLLLLL,I reckon We erre jes gonna haff ta AcCept that as da FINal werd from such a learned -AuthOritY as our Brother which dunn wenT & CoNvinceD me HE do kno whuTT hes a talkin about.. -Now Bro. jes WhaTt is it thet YOU knows bout them thaRr 6010 weltin rOds??hmmmmm??? -Shorely you ainta no welter erre yuse??cuzz iffun yya is a welter, wyyyyyy,yo credibility as a purty -good Bible scholar as weLL as an all around intellygent person & jes plain ole nice guy that knows -pretty much whutT hes a talking a-bout just went up by a-bout 1,000% -ohhhhhh--& jes whone m0re thang LiLL Bro.--duzz yuse want "fries" widd thetT?? Well now Bro I sho nuff do know somewhat about dem welding rods and have done enuff a dem hot slag dances in muh days. And done a little MIG, TIG and WIG...The WIG is from da slag a splatter'n an a coming in over da top a duh hood an burning da hair off'n da top of yer head.... Why I even had dem welding Dawgs a sang'n ... lol Not a welder by trade mind ye, but have done a plenty of it. Was one a dem sheetmetal wurkers for years in da local unionism and learned how ta fabricate, and I aint jist a tawkin big ol yarns either...lol , Den went and asided I best get somewhat edyecated and got meeself one a dem agrees in lectrical engineering. Now Im qualified ta run lectric trains and kin find da light switch when it starts ta get a wee bit dark... And dem fries is sho nuff a sounding purty good bouts now....How much fer a niller shake ta go wif'n dem fries?

I think their just saved until this or that happens, ...or...or....or.....something like that. Least thats what I gather...

That Red Angus Bull might be harder to kill than first expected. Anyone else notice the club its holding under it's hoof? lol

Let me check my shiskcombobulator and make sure I used that in the proper contextity of da sitchiashun fer which it be divisided fer.....* punches in crucial data*..* Hits Get er dun button*.......*waiting..it's slow*...........*listens to hummmmmm*......Kerthunk!....Yep! It's ready.... Says here...If'n its done an went ta da state uh da complexity in da splain'n apartment...an eets done went an got all fuzzled up an looks akin ta a 6010 welding rod wif'n da flux done half banged off'n it...din its too late fer ta do anything wif and one guessn's jist as good as da next un. lol God Bless Bro, Rick

O.k., My last shot at this, its time to move on to something else. Interpret is not a dirty word. It's mentioned in the Bible in more verses than just the one concerning private interpretations. Which I was not, and would not imply. No way, no how, under any circumstances whatsoever. simply stating...It is understanding in the context that the scripture was intended. Sometimes scriptures have to be compared to relating verses in order to understand the context. Gary, If that doesn't help. ...I dont know what else to say Bro. Ya'll get whut I'z is tawki'n bouts? I Knowz dat da folk's awl talks differently down under whar's ye is, but tis da bestus I kin do's bruddah shadder. ! ~ Rick ~

Gary, Interpret has more than one definition. One of which is to present in understandable terms. For example, an interpreter interpreting a langauge from one to another, does not change the meaning of the words spoken, but only presents them in the context of another language. Interpreting the scriptures correctly in this sense is to understand them in the context of the meaning presented. Not out of context. Not to ascribe a meaning to them seperate from the one established. Which would make it a private interpretation. Rick

Rightly Dividing As a Christian we are to rightly divide the word of truth and to study to show ourselves approved. Jesus commanded that we search the scriptures. Even the Apostle Paul warned Timothy to rightly divide the word of truth. Revealing that there is indeed a danger involved in wrongly dividing the truth. Although I am not an expert in Bible interpretation, I believe there are certain things that we can all do, that will enhance our understanding and studies, whether we be new in the faith or have been a christian for many years. I have seen much mentioned on the boards concerning rightly dividing the truth of God's Word. I have seen it used in defense of many beliefs and doctrines. But would like to give some basic information that may help in better understanding God's word, and in studying the scriptures even better. We all must be very careful not to read anything into scriptures that is not there to begin with, and must not take scriptures out of context and use them to enforce a doctrinal belief that we may already have. The Word of God is independent of any denominational belief, and we should be willing to readily alter our beliefs, or scrap them entirely, if they are in contrast to clear scriptural teachings. We must only read them in the correct context in which they are presented. It is in this regard that we can bring our beliefs into the light of God's Word and see if we are in correct alignment with it. Our first priority in searching out the scriptures should be that we meet the requirements of God's word to be qualified to interpret it correctly. The Bible is a spiritual book that requires spiritual understanding. The unsaved are not qualified to interpret God's word correctly. For proper understanding, salvation is a must! " Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. " 1 Cor. 2:13-14. In addition,, we must not have unbroken fellowship with God that would hinder our relationship with Him. It is important that we maintain a life that is in obediance to Him in order that we may be led of His Spirit. We must also have a sincere desire to know God's Word and posess a reverance and respect for it as of being the Word of God. It is important to not enter into study with pre-conceived ideas. We should prayerfully seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in correctly interpreting the information we read, and hold to. And allow the Word of God to be the final authority in our belief. In studying the scriptures we should examine the context in which it is given and not attempt to compare it to other scriptures which are not in the same context. This is extrememly important in rightly dividing the truth. Alot of false doctrines come from taking scripture out of context. There are other resources as well that can make Bible study easier, such as a concordance, a Bible Commentary, Bible Dictionary , etc. These are basic helps that I hope will make rightly dividing God's word easier for all of us. When we have a clear understanding based on God's word, we are confident in our faith, and not only know what we believe, but know why we believe it, and that we are in agreement with the Word of God. Rick

Blame the pastor or blame the individuals that make up the church? The church is made up of individual members. They usually have a say in who they have as a pastor. But it falls on each person to seek out the truth for themselves. I learned a long time ago, that you cant just accept what you are told as the truth. You have to read your Bible for yourself. ( The best advice my Dad ever gave me), And you have to pray and seek God's guidance. Most just go to church, listen to the sermons, accept it, and go home, church is over, on with life etc. Then when the church stops growing, and members stop attending, they blame someone other than themselves. They look to their pastor for spiritual revival. It's his responsibility alone to motivate them. He is responsible for studying the scriptures and finding out the truth. And if there is something wrong with the way things are going in the church, it's his fault. Their only responsibility is to show up and listen. When a church is led by the Holy Spirit, its members are fed through God's word, and they hunger for more, and not only hear , they do! Their lives are a light to those they come into contact with. Their testimonies are inspiring to the lost, who seek hope, and many they come into contact with, ask where did they find this peace? , and are led to Jesus. This doesnt come from a pastor, but from an individual's surrendered life. So personally, I feel like if anyone wants a Holy Spirit led church. All they have to do is follow the Holy Spirit's call. He leads, we follow. I know that at some time, we all fail to follow as we should, But one of the most memorable statements I can recall in a church seeking revival, was " If there is to be revival, let it begin with me." That I agree with. Rick

" Howbeit when He the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth...." John 16:13. A lesson to be learned from the Garden of Eden is that changing God's word to mean something it was never intended to be is dangerous. It led to a fall. Adam and Eve were in a perfect environment and walked in the presence of God, and yet they were decieved concerning God's word. I find that most cults start out the same way. Most take God's Word and ascribe to it a meaning that was not in the original context of what God had said, and lead many astray through their ignorance of the truth. ( And in ignorance I do not insinuate stupidity, only an unlearned understanding. ) They undoubtedly feel that they are correct and all others are wrong in their understanding of what they see. They feel as if God has chosen them only to be the recipient of a divine revelation, and they without rightly dividing the Word of Truth are led astray and lead others astray as well. Apparently from the posts there is a disagreement over God's Word and its true meaning and interpretation. We can type until our fingers bleed, and still not convince anyone of anything. I have seen many times on these boards where scriptures have been disregarded. All because someone refused to accept the truth. I reasoned within myself many times as to why they could not see the truth. And I think the answer lies in the verse at the top of this post. We cannot change anyone. We can point out error, we can post scriptures etc. , But ultimately, they will never see the truth until the Holy Spirit comes and reveals it to them. He alone can guide them into truth. When instruction is given, and correction is presented, we have done all that we can. It is then that we need to pray that the Holy Spirit will lead them into the truth. It does not mean that we failed, or that we have given up, but that we acknowldge our limitations, and call on God to bring His truth to bear. With this in mind, Lord, I ask that you indeed bring Your Truth to bear in not only this situation , but in the hearts of all who participate in these forum boards as well. I ask this in Jesus's name, that Your Word may be used as a light as you intended, and not a tool of division. Amen! Rick

Nice post wordsower!

What was Judas "saved" from? If you think he wound up in eternal damnation. And God knew beforehand the outcome, how can you say he was "saved' for awhile even? Matt 19:25.." When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be SAVED ?" Looks like they did have that term at that period of time. What if Judas, (being in heart a thief), never participated in casting out demons and such? Scripture doesn't tell us he did. What if being un-saved all along he just kept the money, and "looked" like he was part of the team? It's so very possible to think that, as scripture only tells us the bad about Judas. mmmm? Who were the apostles? Mt.10:2-4, Mk.3:16-18 Lk.6:14-16, Acts 1:13 Simon (aka Peter) Andrew James John Philip Bartholomew Thomas Matthew James (son of Alphaeus) Judas (James' brother) Simon (Zeolotes) Judas (Iscariot) ( Who would be replaced by Matthias.) 12 in total. 13 if you add Matthias. " They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have no doubt continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19. Concerning Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, " Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you twelve ( 12) , and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon, for he it was he that should betray Him, being one of the twelve (12)". John 6:70-71. " That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots , and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven ( 11) apostles. Acts 1:25-26. Judas's position as an apostle was removed, and he was replaced by Matthias. Or else Matthias would have become the 13th apostle, which isnt so. According to : " And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. " Rev. 21:14. Not 13 !. Not that it will matter to some. But maybe I should have typed it in red letters and caps to make it more convincing. No! , I'll just be content with the truth of the matter. Rick

Amen Nebula! The silence of God does not mean the absence of God.

Anne, Thanks for responding to my question. I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I respect your right to believe as you do, and admire your desire to seek out the truth. I too must say that I saw things in the post that set off bells and whistles to me while reading. I also saw someone who has a desire to love God and live for Him. I believe your desire is sincere in knowing the truth, and will not ridicule you for stating what you believe, and which I am sure the other members that responded will agree was not their intent as well. Sometimes disagreement over a subject matter can be seen as a personal attack against us because we have accepted it as truth, and it has become a part of us. The replies are not attacks against you, but were only responses to the substance of the post, with which they disagreed. It is difficult to accept that there might be something wrong with something that we may have said, or written, since it tends to make us feel inadequate or seen as less than we feel we should be, when othersd disagree with it. Or that maybe we feel we are not accepted based on our understanding of what we hold to. But I can assure you that is not the case here. We only desire that the truth be known. With so much error in the world today, and so many embracing whatever comes along, it is sometimes necessary to question, and through the love of the truth challenge what we see as error. Each of us may see and understand something that others may not agree with or accept. But the opportunity to have dialogue must remain open in order to search out the truth together, with the hope that the enlightening we receive is only from God's word, and in the context that He intended. I myself have to be very cautious and keep in mind that satan himself appears as an angel of light. He brings illumination also. But in a manner that changes or distorts the truth of God's word. It is for this reason alone that we all have to be willing to learn and seek out the truth as God revealed, and not be led astray by satan , who is very adept at leading astray and causing division. With this said, I again thank you for responding and hope that discussion can remain open among all members in searching out the truth, and that we can establish in our hearts and minds that the Word of God is the final authority in all matters, and rightly divide the truth. Rick

Anne, Not sure I understand this, Care to explain a little further about the enlightenment ? Also, who those were that were ignorant of God's laws?