Gandalf

False dichotomy. No one wants laws either kept or made to "control people's behavior" in regards to homosexuality. They obviously already have the "right" to be homosexual. No one is hindering that right, in any way. The statement that anyone is trying to control their behavior is false all day, every day. Homosexuals want the right to marry at the expense of other people's rights, i.e., faith-based groups. Gay activists want Christians to set aside their rights, or abandon them wholesale, so that they can have the right to "marry." And if you were in the military, then you should already know that that ain't how the system works. That mindset clearly violates the 1st amendment. Because homosexuals don't just want the right to marry, they want to force religious institutions to perform those marriages, and they want to force people to not be allowed to voice any dissent against them and their lifestyle. That is a violation of the 1st amendment in both cases. We are losing the battle because we have a twisted secular world that very much wants to convince people that there is no such thing as sin. If we allow the government, which is supposed to serve all of us, not just militant gays, to impose restrictions on our ability to voice what is and conversely, is not acceptable lifestyles, there is no way we can effectively do what you advocate. How can you proclaim the Gospel wearing a muzzle? I am not talking about "stopping" a behavior of any kind, and statements such as that, when aimed toward me will be just as false the 100th time you repeat it as it was the 1st time you said it. You don't dupe people into thinking what they do is acceptable when it is actually detrimental. Why would you automatically assume that I don't show people the Gospel? That is our first and foremost calling as Christians. It isn't an "either" - "or" proposition. And if gays think they are set and there is nothing they need to change, just exactly how are you going to introduce them to this Gospel? They are content. They don't even know they need it, because they surround themselves with people who tell them what they want to hear. Allowing that to continue unchecked is not an expedient or effective way to get the Gospel to them. when I spoke of people not sharing the Gospel, I was not referring to any particular person but to the Church in America in general. I believe it is an either-or proposition, I do not believe that you can fight both "fights" effectively. You can fight against sins or you can fight for souls which will affect the sin in the long run. The legal battle has left Christians looking petty and hateful, which makes it hard to spread the Gospel. Its true to say that some Christians have portrayed a hateful attitude. But not all, by any means. The difficulty is that the media easily latch onto those who display bad attitudes and tar everyone with the same brush. Like it or not, the media matter in the 21st Century; we need to be wise as serpents in the way we present ourselves in public image.

Every obedience is rewarded by God1 Cor 7:1 7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman NKJV Love, Steven This scripture is normally interpreted as a reference to lifelong celibacy.

Anyone operating outside of The Holy Spirit will misinterpret Scripture! That is why God says we are to yield fully to Spiritthat He may form His Truth (Scripture) within us -or- do you deny God's promise here? Hos 2:20-23 20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, And you shall know the Lord. 21 "It shall come to pass in that day That I will answer," says the Lord; "I will answer the heavens, And they shall answer the earth. 22 The earth shall answer With grain, With new wine, And with oil; 23 Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; Then I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they shall say, 'You are my God!'" NKJV John 8:31-32 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." NKJV Love, Steven Many operating inside of the holy Spirit seem also to misinterpret some of Scripture. Else we would not have so many lively debates on Worthy! Human beings are fallible, even when they personally think they have the mind of the Spirit.

Yes, I agree. Snowden has exposed for all to see what several governments around the world don't want their citizens to know about.

Bary I wanted to address this Theological Window of God's Purpose you speak of:Like the reason I gave of God's giving Moses an account of how God began things Ex 33:11(the Friend speaking to friend context) so also now this suggestion within you of primary and secondary importance must be brought into this context! We know that before God created 'WAS' God Jn 4:24, Jn 1 ... we know by all The Writ of God that the created element of beginning had infinite possibilities as scientific laws are maintained and controlled by God but God is not bound in submission to those laws Rm 1:20 leaving creative laws secondary to the infinite reality of God... as God has spoken these last days Through His Son and primary importance of God 'IS' fully revealed The New Heaven and New Earth of eternity cannot be understood now by what is made- 1 Cor 2:9 9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." NKJV so as God has settled the division aspect of primary and secondary in definition by that which He keeps of present creation (His Word, souls of men) into eternal state and that which He does not keep but ultimately destroys as though it never was 2 Peter 3:7-13 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. NKJV Because God has began us in these elements by which He knew He was not keeping and we walk in The Spirit of faith in believing we are transformed into a people who live in a place not yet existing successfully transforming us into The Children of Abraham by his beginnings Heb 11:8-10 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. NKJV If we put anything of temporary before that which is eternal we have effectively made an idol within our heart! Thus the understanding of this Heb 10:34-39 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. NKJV Love, Steven I'd say the primary reality is God, either way you cut it. Yes, that has to be true. Our interpretation of Scripture is fallible, as we can see from many "Worthy" threads. God is God and is not swayed by people's opinion of Him.

I am with GE on this. Every time homosexuality is brought up, you attempt to deflect the conversation to something else. Usually the "love of money" which we have already pointed out is a false dichotomy when you attempt to use it this way. You never deal with the subject directly. What's up with that? Sins are not drawn up according to a list of which are which from least bad to most bad. But the Bible most certainly does point out that sexual, sin, of any type, is worse, and more harmful than other sins. ........... This does not concur with what the gospel record of Jesus attitude towards different types of sin. He is recorded as being hot against money-love, self-righteousness and hypocrisy, and rather forgiving towards sexual sin. Perhaps he remembered his ancestor David, who was forgiven by God for sexual sin.

Does that make Putin more Christian than Obama?

Replying to the bolded part. In this thread, it is the "evolutionists" who are misrepresenting what the ToE is saying, not the creationists. I am running with what I have learned about the core tenets of the theory from those who are in the best position to explain it. It is those promoting evolution in this thread who are trying to skew Evolution in order to make it fit into the Bible (and they are also misrepresenting the Bible, as well). I'm going to start this with the caveat that I'm personally a YEC. Having said that, I will say that these criteria are subjective, at best. I don't see any reason a believer couldn't see a metaphorical meaning with regard to creation and remain a believer (even if I think they're wrong). You also have to realize that in a lot of cases people are going to be coming straight out of atheistic backgrounds and are attempting to come to terms with all sorts of moral dilemmas and likely undergoing a lot of upheaval in their personal lives at the same time. It's not necessary to assume that someone in this particular situation who may eventually embrace the young earth position is going to immediately embrace the young earth position, or even embrace it in 5 years or 10 years. I find it generally best to give people the benefit of the doubt. If I have a disagreement with a brother or sister in Christ over evolution then so be it, as long as he or she knows that Jesus bore his or her sins of the cross and was resurrected and as long as they have genuinely put their faith in Him I'm going to trust God to deal with it, even if that involves using me as a vessel from time to time. Yes, I can largely go along with that, though I do not subscribe to YEC. Glad we can agree.

If the gospels are to be trusted, Jesus seems to have been hot against money-love, self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

Bless you hupo! Its an emotive subject for many people; you have shown the courage of humility.

China?

Oh, it has been demonstrated. The fact that you are determined to remain in your unbelief doesn't mean it hasn't been demonstrated. There is not amount of evidence that could ever be produced to satisfy someone unwilling to be convinced. The bottom line is that the Bible is the word of an all knowing, all powerful God who doesn't lie or make mistakes. Science comes from sinful corrupt fallibile little men. You can follow them. I am a Christan,however, and I will believe and trust God. That's what Christians do. The point is that the allegorical method is simply a means of inserting things like gay marriage and evolution through the back door in an attempt to supplant the Bible's authority for man's wisdom. Not at all, I am typically responsive to arguments and evidence if they are convincing and I give them careful thought. I have many weaknesses and vices but that doesn't seem to be one of them. I have repeatedly asked for a clear argument and got post after post like this, insulting rhetoric. Your need to get in the last word by insinuating that my loyalty to God is lacking is noted. You can believe the Bible, OR you can believe in Evolution. But you can't have both. The Bible doesn't support Evolution and it is odd that even hard core atheistic evolutionists are more honest about this than you and BFA. I think it is a sad commentary when unbelievers are more honest than people who claim to be Christians. I have provided evidence when requested. The fact that you don't like the evidence and refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean it hasn't been offered. Passive aggressively questioning others' salvation is a poor way to debate this particular issue and is, in and of itself, bad form. I know several brothers and sisters who are OEC who bear fruits of the Spirit. This doesn't at all seem to be telling the truth in love. I agree. Lets debate the issues (as most do), not question each other's standing in Christ!

Its very confusing in Egypt. Yet another illustration of how difficult and dangerous it is to pick sides in middle eastern countries. A sober lesson re. possible arming of Syrian rebels.

Why do you not believe Xmas trees are pagan? perhaps because they are not. Historically they are! We can't rewrite history just because its uncomfortable.

This is utter nonsense! Sorry, but the DM is notorious in the UK for bending the truth to suit its own agenda. The Times, Telegraph, Independent and Guardian cover between them the UK Political spectrum and are far more trustworthy. The Mail? To be taken with a large pinch of salt. The Guardian? I've heard that it is not the most reliable source of news... I suppose The Daily Mail is to UK what Fox News is to the U.S. The Guardian is very unreliable. It is pro-Gay, pro-Lesbian, Atheistic, New Age, very Left-wing and very politically correct! The Guardian is most of those things (not New Age). But it is heavyweight and gives plenty of column space to those who take an opposite view. It is a serious newspaper and does not sensationalise trivial stories to support its point of view (unlike the Daily Mail). The Guardian also shows compassion for the poor and marginalised, again unlike the Daily Mail which disdains such people. Interesting. So for a newspaper to be considered "serious" it must be favorably LGBT, atheistic, leaning left, and leaning new age type spiritualism. But because they show "compassion" for the poor all the rest of that stuff is okay. I think you've shown your hand my friend. You have deliberately misquoted me! Why? The Times, Telegraph, Independent and Guardian are all serious, heavyweight newspapers; The Daily Mail is not!

Why do you not believe Xmas trees are pagan?

Maybe the secret US tapping of UK communications will reveal the true reason?

This is utter nonsense! Sorry, but the DM is notorious in the UK for bending the truth to suit its own agenda. The Times, Telegraph, Independent and Guardian cover between them the UK Political spectrum and are far more trustworthy. The Mail? To be taken with a large pinch of salt. The Guardian? I've heard that it is not the most reliable source of news... I suppose The Daily Mail is to UK what Fox News is to the U.S. The Guardian is very unreliable. It is pro-Gay, pro-Lesbian, Atheistic, New Age, very Left-wing and very politically correct! The Guardian is most of those things (not New Age). But it is heavyweight and gives plenty of column space to those who take an opposite view. It is a serious newspaper and does not sensationalise trivial stories to support its point of view (unlike the Daily Mail). The Guardian also shows compassion for the poor and marginalised, again unlike the Daily Mail which disdains such people.

Don't understand your question. Do you think Jesus is against hunting? Or do you think Jesus is against police officers or soldiers? IMHO Jesus is against the NRA.

How could anyone favour both the NRA and Jesus?

Relevance?

So they're not to be trusted then? We have 'news' sources like that here in the U.S. too. They are more trustworthy than most other newspapers in Britain. But because they are 'right wing' the Leftist groups have been trying to discredit them for years! The Daily Mail often print truths that are not in line with the 'politically correct' narrative and Leftists are more concerned about preserving the narrative than the truth! This is utter nonsense! Sorry, but the DM is notorious in the UK for bending the truth to suit its own agenda. The Times, Telegraph, Independent and Guardian cover between them the UK Political spectrum and are far more trustworthy. The Mail? To be taken with a large pinch of salt.

Weird ramblings 33! Gays, modern Israel, abortion, Iran. What about money love? That seemed a much bigger concern to Jesus!

I'm curious as to what you mean by the word blessing here, especially in regard to individuals. We live in the united states, I would agree that we're incredibly blessed, but what about an iranian Christian who honors God and is tortured and executed for it, or someone from afghanistan who converts to Christianity and is executed for it? My general thoughts are that everyone who is a Christian is definitionally blessed insofar as we are guaranteed eternal life and fellowship with God. I'm wondering, though, what the word blessing entails there in the context in which you place it, i.e. material goods, spiritual discernment, etc.? Good questions. Many Christians in poor nations say that we in the rich "West" are in fact cursed by material well-being because it takes our attention and dependence away from God.

I think that is manifested more in the modern economic world than the matter of sexual morals, which have always been a problem: remember King David?