wonby1

I've heard the arguments before, Revelation was fulfilled long ago. However, are we to believe that all prophesy in the Bible has been fulfilled? If so, I certainly dispute being in paradise. It is a mistake to discount the notion that prophesy can have duel meanings. When looking at world events, there is but one conclusion. The world is in a collectivist frenzy, as one world order types attempt to further consolidate power in the world via the European Union and NAFTA etc. We also have the world attention focused on Israel, as this one world system moves closer and closer to directly intervening in Israel as the scriptures warn. There is also evidence of this collectivist beast increasing its control over us all. We see this with PRISM. We see this with the technology to "tag" us so as to properly identify us and watch us. Imagine being tagged for multiple reasons. Imagine a system where an implanted tag becomes the mode for financial transactions. No more lost credit cards. No more cheating on taxes. But what if they could also track you with that implant. No more lost persons. No more running from the law. Now imagine a tag that can also be used for your health care. An implanted chip could be used for easy access to health care information. Perhaps it will even monitor your blood pressure or glucose readings etc. And lastly, perhaps technology will also use such a tag as a means of communication. No more carrying around a cell phone. In fact, everything you do and say could be monitored. It is not a matter of if these things will happen, but when and do they coincide with Revelation? Looking at the world movements today, it seems obvious to me that this is the direction we are headed. Perhaps Orwell was also a prophet of sorts. The admonishments in Revelation are just the icing on the cake for me. It's not like I can't see this stuff coming a mile away. Those who refuse to participate in the world system, (ie Christians) we be referred to as extremists, obstructionists, regressive, and the problem in society that needs to be expunged because they oppose such efficiency. In fact, Christians may be referred to as the terrorists since they are the ones who seem afraid of such government oversight. They may feel that their very lives are threatened by the Christians who refuse to participate, all because of their silly little book and their superstitions. My guess is that the next great power grab will probably occur after another financial meltdown. Power will further be centralized and force the masses to surrender more of their sovereignty to organizations like NATO who will "fix" the inefficiencies of the current system. Imagine the power that they would have not to have to print money and the freedom to track all financial transactions. Human beings inherently seek such power, and nothing will stop them unless God himself stops them. Just my 2 cents.

Historically we are presented with a grim picture. Religions across the globe were into child sacrifice. The Aztecs sacrificed to the gods of Tlaloc, Ehcatl, Quetzalcoati, and Huizilupochtli. The Incas sacrificed their children in a ritual called capachocha. The Ammonites sacrificed their children to the god of Moloch. Later the Israelites adopted the practice which caused God to spew them out of the Holy Land. In Phoenicia and Carthage they sacrificed to the god Cronus. Even the Quran documents pagan Arabian religions during the time of Mohammad who sacrificed their children to idols. IN Prehistoric Briton there is an indication of child sacrifice. And last but not least, in Uganda there is a revival today of child sacrifice, even though the government is trying to down play the issue. This is by no means a comprehensive list. I think it fair to say that the list should be much, much longer, but most of history is lost to us. The human condition is grim indeed. However, are we any better today? Consider that Roe vs. Wade has killed over 50 million babied. I think we are no better. Can abortion be compared to child sacrifice of old? I think it can. After all, child sacrifice was done in order to obtain things. They wanted to win a victory at war, or they wanted a lush harvest, or they wanted to end a drought etc, etc. However, today the average abortion is done due to financial concerns. Again, the human condition is me first and selfish by nature. We are no different, in fact, we are arguably worse. I've been criticized here for posting things that are not uplifting, so I will attempt to break out of that cycle. For me, it gives a new light on Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son Isaac. On the surface, the request seems down right mean and unreasonable. However, if you lived in an era where child sacrifice was acceptable, it takes on a whole new picture. It is an open example of the position God has taken on child sacrifice. He makes no doubts whatsoever as to his position on child sacrifice, he is against it. In fact, it is arguable that only the God of the Bible stands against it.

I posted my source. My source was from the book, "Hitler's Beneficiaries". It was written by a historian by the name of Gotz Aly. He is and was by no means a "right winger" or political activist. He simply was trying to find the answer as to how the German people could turn their heads and turn a blind eye to the most horrific evil imaginable. He concluded that the nanny state played a large part in all this. Just pay people off to turn their heads. Although some here are offended at the Holocaust being compared to the abortion industry, I find it equally troubling that race is even injected into the equation. Murder is murder, no matter your race or ethnicity. I suppose I could see the outrage if someone did not think abortion was murder. Other than that, I'm confounded. Sometimes I see Obama bumper stickers at church, and I just scratch my head. What are they thinking? I would say that most Americans and even a great many Christians don't really view abortion as murder. It would be akin to a "Christian" voting for a Nazi who supported the Nazi death camps for whatever reason. Maybe they like the social programs for the poor, who knows. All I know is that wicked men like Hitler or even Al Capone had charities for the poor. In the end it is all just smoke and mirrors to hide their wickedness. As for making this thread uplifting, you got me there. I have no idea how to make this uplifting. Does it mean that we don't talk about it? Would that be better, or is there a better way?

You have to understand, most of the citizens in the US are clueless, and that is being nice. We now have in America a government that can detain you indefinitely without due process that was guaranteed under the Constitution via the NDAA signed into law by President Obama. Did Americans care during the 2012 elections? Nope. Maybe keeping the US educational system ranked 48th in the world is the key to keeping the populace oblivious. Then again, during the reign of FDR, innocent Japanese Americans were rounded up and thrown into prison. Maybe nothing has really changed.

How many Jews were killed in Nazi Germany? I hear it is around 6 million. In the US, there have been close to around 50 million abortions since Roe vs. Wade. Of course, your position is that the Jews are human being and the fetus is not. Well, the Nazis would have disagreed. They did not see the Jews as equal, just like you don't see the unborn as human. Personally, I don't believe in the birth fairy that swings her magic wand when the unborn exit the womb making them human. To ignore monsters like Dr. Gosnell who have jars of aborted babies feet on his desk, I think is beyond ridiculous and disgusting. May God have mercy on us all. I look at progressives as having a war against children. The ones they don't abort the steal from via increasing debt. They are the perfect victim. They can't vote, can't debate, can't even scream as they try to evade the doctors attempt to abort them.

I would have to say Joseph and Job. It helps remind me that you just can't keep a good man down even though you may take everything they have, including half their life away or even their very lives away. It helps remind me that this life is not about my wants and desires, it is about fulfilling God's which is really our only hope of fulfilling our desires in the end.

Dear God, forgive our nation for sacrificing our children to abortion as ancient Israel once did in worship to the gods of Canaan. Forgive our nation for forsaking you and pulling you out of our schools, out of our government, out of our culture as ancient Israel once did before your great wrath and judgment came upon them as their nation was utterly destroyed. May there be a revival in America that will point to you as the answer to our ills rather than statists who claim they know what is moral, what is right for us. May you forgive us for elevating them as gods before us and may we learn to choose you as our great shepherd instead with the knowledge that anyone else is but a thief and destroyer of life.

I would like a return to the government that the Founding Fathers gave us. A government without a 4rth Executive branch of unelected leaders and a return to state rights. The only difference between a theocracy and a secular collectivist state is the common good is never done in the name of God. In ancient times, the collectivists tried to convince us that they were God. Then when that failed the collectivist tried to convince us that they spoke for God. Then when that failed the collectivist tried to convince us that there is no God, thus making them the ultimate authority.

There are various brands of collectivism. There is socialism, communism, fascism, progressivism etc. I'm not convinced that democracy only brings about one brand of collectivism such as socialism. Having said that, I find it interesting that although democracy seems to bring about collectivism, collectivism seems to rob us of our democracy. After all, collectivists seek to centralize power, and the more power is centralized the more diluted our representation becomes and the more meaningless our votes become. In the US, states had much more power than they do today. The federal government has pretty much subverted all of their power to themselves. I think that is why the US Congress only has an approval rating of around 9%, yet they keep getting elected anyway. So our democracy has only a 9% approval rating? That does not sound like a democracy, not even a republic democracy.

Girls will die from taking these medications. I've heard of one that did and her dad had no recourse because it was legal for her to take it behind his back. Why is it that this issue is so lopsided? We have an extremist government in regards to abortion. It is to the point that abortion doctors go unmolested in large part as they perform late term abortions and treat women as they like. How many Dr. Gosnells are out their with jars of babies feet on their desk? He did this sort of thing from 1979 to present, all because those in government see restricting or regulating them in any way hinders the political football known as the abortion industry. Sick. So when under age girls die from taking these drugs, which they will, is there going to be any accountability in government? I'm sure they will form a committee and have a hearing, but outside of that nothing will happen.

Karl Marx once said, "Democracy is the road to socialism". So is it true or false?

Who here supports his actions?

Hero or traitor?

Exposing the truth for what it is for starters. Hopefully people will repent for supporting genocide if they have voted for pro abortionists in the past. Christians should not be apart of this, neither should they be silent like they were in large part in Nazi Germany.

But we don't make our own moral code. Each of us are subject to God's moral code which is the Golden Rule spelled out by Christ. There are ways to get around that moral code, however. The key is dehumanizing the other party so that they can be treated like beasts of burden. For example, in the 1800's the slave was seen as nothing but a glorified ape. Had they been portrayed as our equal, mankind could never have justified treating them in such a way. Likewise, in Nazi Germany the Jew was not our equal, they were equated with vermin. And in the Middle East those who are not Muslim are infidels and Jews are apes and pigs. For the progressive, these mental gymnastics are also necessary. The unborn are not people they are a "fetus". I've even heard them called parasites.

Very good. In Daniel 9:24-27, Daniel provides us with a calendar for the coming of Jesus some 500 years later. I find it to be one of the most astounding prophesies in the Bible. I also have found it be a nice witnessing tool. After all, there is no debate the Daniel was written some 500 years before Jesus came on the scene and there is no dispute that Daniel provided us with a calendar for his coming. The main problem most have is understanding the terminology in the text. Daniel does not describe the passage of time using our own verbiage and calendars. However, the Rabbinical Jews calculated to the time of Jesus as written in their Talmud. Most probably don't know this, but the common man was forbidden to calculate the verse in question on the premise that they might be "misled" because they rejected Jesus as Messiah. Instead, the Rabbis say that the Messiah tarries because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, the Messiah did not come when he was suppose to as pointed at in Daniel during the time of Jesus because of the sinfulness of Israel. The problem with that is, I don't recall God ever changing his mind.

My statement is ridiculous? I suppose you could say that only if you don't view abortion as murder. After all, many more of the unborn have died at the hands of monsters like Dr. Gosnell in abortion clinics than have died in Nazi death camps. As for the nanny state, it is a historical fact. Nazi Germany was the most progressive country in Europe, if not the world. They exploited the winning formula of stealing wealth and throwing it at their base of political support to maintain power. Like it or not, the majority of Germans approved of Hitler and the Nazi party back in the day. It shows the ability of a murderous regime to buy support from the populace even though they may be the incarnate of Satan himself.

So horrified of the environment they lived in, that they slaughtered millions upon millions. The Jews, sick, disabled not to mention those that did not agree with their regime. Are you really trying to say that the USA is doing the same ? Perhaps, I am not understanding your post. PS. Reminder to ncn , stay out of our cousin's threads on politics from across the pond. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I say slaughtered millions, I am talking about the abortion industry as well as the great numbers of people who have died in wars abroad. If abortion is really murder, then it is no different from the death camps in Nazi Germany. The problem is, I don't think that most people believe it to be true, even Christians. That's why I have no idea why Christians would vote for politicians who support abortion on demand but also claim abortion is wrong. Would a Christian in Nazi Germany vote for someone who supported the death camps, just because they supported other things they liked about the candidate?

Daniel made a calendar for the coming of the Messiah. Where is it in Daniel?

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-offends-catholics-UK/2013/06/19/id/510847 Apparently Obama decided to make a visit to Ireland, where he subsequently offended the entire culture by saying that in order to have peace Catholic educations needed to be done away with. Nice. I would apologize for the President, but then, why? He has the support of most Americans it seems. Who knows, maybe I'll move to Ireland.

Don't expect any support from the GOP. They use the IRS for their own political purposes, such as corporate tax breaks for their supporters etc. I commend the movement, even though it is one based in futility.

Are you tired of being ridiculed for being against abortion because you are a Christian? Are you tired of people assuming that they must accept the Bible in order to sell the notion that abortion is murder? Do what I do, tell them that they must believe in the birth fairy as she waves her magic wand over the child as it passes out of the womb to make it human.

I use to think that social issues and fiscal issues were two entirely separate issues, as if neither effected the other. However, as I grow older and I grow in my faith, I'm beginning to see things much more differently. If I wanted to destroy freedom within society, if I wanted a police state, how would I go about it? I now recognize that to do that all that is needed is to destroy a nations morality. Let me explain. If you started a country full of hardened criminals and gave them the perfect government, they would screw it up. However, give a nation full of morally upright individuals a flawed form of government and they will fix it. Benjamin Franklin once said that the Constitution would endure for a time, until society became so corrupt that it no longer had any bearing upon that society. I think we have arrived. Speaking of the Founding Fathers, from what type of society did they spring? Was it not from a Puritan society who was seeking religious freedom? I think it no coincidence that they came from such a society. As for the society of today......well.......we have the leaders we have today that have come from such a society. It is a society that forbids its children to pray in school. It is a society that kills its unborn. It is a society that embraces the gay lifestyle and sex outside of marriage. It is a society in moral decay that will soon need a police state to contain it in order to prevent it from further harming itself and the rest of the world. Jesus had it right. It all starts in the hearts and minds of the individual. The approach is bottom up, not top to bottom. If we want to change government for the better, we must first fundamentally transform society from which it springs. I guess my biggest question is, is destroying the moral fabric of society being done intentionally in order to bring about a police state? I would like to think not.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/our-american-pravda/ This is a pretty good read about how the American news media can no longer be trusted to provide us with what is really going on in the world. Specifically, the US government is just too controlling over the press to be trusted. Here is my favorite quote from the article. "Consider the fascinating perspective of the recently deceased Boris Berezoisky, once the most powerful of the Russian oligarchs and the puppet master behind President Boris Yeltsin during the late 1990's. After looting billions in national wealth and elevating Vladimir Putin to the presidency, he overreached himself and eventually went into exile. According to the New York Times, he had planned to transform Russia into a fake 2 party stateone social-democratic and one neoconservativein which heated public battles would be fought on devisive, symbolic issues, while behind the scenes both parties would actually be controlled by the same ruling elites. With the citizenery thus permanently divided and popular dissatisfaction safely channeled into meaningless dead-ends. Russian rulers could maintain unlimited wealth and power for themselves with little threat to their reign." Gee, I wonder where he got that idea from?

(eyes roll) I know, I know, we have all heard it before and thought such rhetoric to be over the top and baseless. I also had these inclinations, that is, before I started learning about the Third Reich. Try some of the quotes form Nazi's on for size. "We ask that government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within the confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand and end to power of financial interest. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand the greatest consideration of small business in the purchases of the national state, and municipal governments in order to make possible to every capable industrious citizen attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all around enlargement of our system of public education. We demand education of government must undertake the improvement of public health - by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor - by the greatest possible support for all groups concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the Common Good before the individual good. - National Socialist Party "Societies needs come before the individuals" - Hitler "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemingly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and prosperity instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy their system under all costs." - Hitler "As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see, in the Hebrews, the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nations goods." - Joseph Goebbels "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Hitler "Gold is not necessary, I have no interest in gold. We will build a solid state, without an ounce of gold behind it." - Hitler. "Believe me, National Socialism would be worth nothing if it were to be confined to Germany and did not secure the rule over the whole world for at least one to two thousand years." - Hitler "The more we are doing to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it." - Joseph Mengele "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" - Hitler "All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it. Through clever and constant applications of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and vise versa, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise." - Hitler "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedian religion too would have much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" - Hitler These quotes sound frighteningly similar to things we hear today. However, I have much, much more than this to drive home my point. A German Historian by the name of Gotz Aly wrote a book called, "Hitler's Beneficiaries". In the book the historian Aly studied the relationship between government largeness and corruption. Most people don't realize that the Nazi government was very progressive. They taxed most of the wealth that the top 4% had in Germany, and simply took from Jews as they killed them. They also used plunder from wars abroad and threw all of this money at their base, the average working German. In fact, Germans had the highest quality of life of anyone in Europe, and arguably in the US. Food was always plentiful in Germany, even up until 1945. The people had free health care, education, retirement etc. Aly concluded that the biggest reason that the Nazis could carry out a genocide was, the progressive state was buying their support off of theft from those abroad. As the Bible indicated, the love of money is the root of all evil. The Nazi model is but one example. http://llco.org/hitlers-beneficiaries-2005-by-gotz-aly/ But can we throw progressives of today under the bus with the Nazi regime? Can we label today's progressives as genocidal warmongers as well? Sure the Nazis were modern day progressives in terms of economic outlooks, but are they the monsters that create death camps? Consider this, the US has troops in over 70 countries around the world. It also recently had wars going on in three different countries and is currently attempting one in Syria. Also consider abortion. The US has killed far more unborn children than all the Jews combined that died in Nazi Germany. Considering these things, are the progressives in the US that much better? Today we have abortions doctors sitting around with jars full of babies feet on their desks. How much better exactly are we than the Nazi regime? Of course, progressives of today get their money by stealing from future generations, as well as the top 1%. They then throw their money at the base needed to maintain power, just like the Nazi model showed us it could be done. In fact, the loyalty generated by this winning formula is so strong, people are willing to overlook the most horrific of deeds. Now Americans are willing to overlook that the government spies on them at will with impunity, and even can jail them without due process under the NDAA. They are willing to overlook the extermination of millions of unborn children with next to no regulation. The payoff is just too luring to decline. But the similarities between Nazis and modern day progressives does not end there. Interestingly, the Nazi's would have given PETA a run for their money. Hermann Goring once said, "Unbearable torture and suffering in animal experiments and those who still think they can treat animals as inantimate property will be sent off to concentration camps." In fact, Germany passed some of the most progressives acts of legislation protecting animals, all while brutalizing human beings in the most animalistic fashion imaginable. Hitler loved animals to such an extent, he was a vegetarian. But it gets even weirder, as if that were possible. The Nazis were also ardent environmentalists. The Nazis ordered their soldiers to plant trees. There were the first Europeans to establish nature reserves and order the protection of hedgerows and other wildlife habitats. And they were horrified at the idea of hydroelectric dams on the Rhine. Is it just me that is creeped out by these similarities?