Shar

It is not that another actual re-sacrifice of Christ occurs. It is simply that on that 1 day (Yom Kippur), they will accept their Messiah and on that 1 day (Yom Kippur) their sins will be removed.

Now, I understand that little sarcasm avatar you post so proudly on your replies.

LOL. I can see why you did not want to private message me. Glad to say, I am very female. Thanks. You made me laugh, and my husband too.

Very funny, Spock. You are a man. Ravenous wolf? LOL

Joline, Stick with Q on the responses regarding these feasts and an understanding of them. I, myself being Messianic, agree with Q and her explanations. The Fall Feasts do have an association with Israel, particularly at the end times. Like Q explained, when Jesus returns there will be a national sacrifice, for the scripture states that in one day, He will take away the sin of Israel. (Yom Kippur). Those who don't understand the significance of Israel and God's covenant promise to them and His future Davidic reign will blast those who believe that God's feasts have specific meaning for Israel's future too. Also, those who do not understand the very Jewishness of the Bible, will accuse Messianics of being obsessed with being Jewish, which is not the case. These types of naysayers are usually engaged more in replacement theology, rather than accepting God's promise to the Jews as everlasting, and it will have its fulfillment when Jesus returns to set up His Davidic reign in Jerusalem.

I get you. I am a female and I understand your preference not to do so.

People read posts throughout these threads and quote on them, even if they are not directing conversing. That is how the forum works and how people engage in discussions and become part of them. If you mean your post to be only for a particular person you need to give them a private message. And, as always, a respectful reply is encouraged.

Glad you clarified that. I was about to give you some quotes from the Quran showing different. Yes, they are clearly against the concept of the Trinity. For God to have a son is considered blasphemy in Islam. They believe Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary is nothing more than a messenger of God. They never refer to Him as Son of God, but always "son of Mary" when referring to Jesus.

Try and read all these scriptures before you go off and start accusing me of things untrue. God the Father has a body with bodily parts as we have and this also proves the Father Son and Holy Spirit are not "ONE in body but 'ONE" in unity in all things. God has a spirit body with bodily parts like a man. This is proved by hundreds of Scriptures that do not need interpretation. God is a Spirit being, infinite, eternal, immutable, self-existent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, invisible, impartial, immortal, absolutly holy, full of wisdom, full of knowledge, and just in all things. God is known in Scripture by over two hundred names. He is describes as being like any other person as to having a body, soul, and spirit (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3 ; Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-7). Dan 7 - Shifts to end times and this is descriptive of Jesus in Rev.1:14. Jesus has a body Dan 10 - Is describing the actual angel who came to Daniel that had been hinder by the Prince of Persia for 21 days He is a spirit being with a body (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-6 ; 9-19 ; Exodus 24:11 ; Ezek. 1:26-28 , Acts 7:54-59 ; Rev. 4:2-4 ; 5:1 ; 5-7 ; 22:4-5), shape (John 5:37), form (Phil. 2:5-7, same Greek word as in Mark 16:12, which refers to bodily form); and an image and likeness of a man (Gen. 1:26 ; 9:6 ; Ezek. 1:26-28 ; 1 Cor. 11:7, Jas. 3:9; Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-6). Ex 24:11 God not raising his hand is figurative language for He not exacting punishment on the Leaders, not literally a hand. Act 7 - Standing at the right hand means a position of authority, not literally a hand; Rev 4 is a likeness of radiance for the one on the throne, not bodily description; Rev 5 is describing Jesus, who has a body, as the root of Jesse; Phil describes Jesus; He has a heart (Gen. 6:6 ; 8:21). hands and fingers (Exod. 31:18, Psalms 8:3-6, Rev. 5:1 ; 6-7), Nostrils (Ps. 18:8), mouth (Num. 12:8), lips and tongue Isa. 30:27, feet (Ezek. 1:27 ; Exodus 24:10); eyes, eyelids, sight (Ps. 11:4 ; 18:24 ; 33:18) ; voice (Ps. 29 ; Rev. 10:3-4 ; Gen. 1) ; breath (Gen. 2:7) ; ears (Ps. 18:6) ; head, hair, face, arms (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-19 ; Rev. 5:1 ; loins (Ezek. 1:26 ; 28; 8:1-4); bodily presence (Gen. 3:8 ; 18:1-22 ; Job 1:6-12 ; 2:1-7 ; Exodus 24:10-11 ; and many other bodily parts as required by Him to be a person with a body. God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8 ; 11:5 ; 18:1-22, 33 ; 19:24 ; 32:24-32 ; 35:13 ; Zech. 14:5 ; Titus 2:13). God is omnipresent but not omnibody, that is His presence can be felt everywhere but His body is not everywhere. God wears cloths (Dan. 7:9-14 ; 10:5-19 ; God eats food (Gen. 18:1-22 ; Exodus 24:11). There is not one Scripture in the Bible which states that God is intangible, immaterial, without a body, or bodily parts, and passions except John 4:24, “God is a spirit,” and this certainly does not teach that He is without a body. The difference between Spirit and flesh and bone is substance. The Word, who became flesh, and is now risen, Jesus, now has a glorified flesh and bone body and the scares to prove it; Luke 24:39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Jesus will carry the wounds forever as a reminder of what He endured to all throughout eternity future! Zechariah 13:6, And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. And where is Jesus now? He is sitting in His glorified flesh and bone body, along side the Father, at His Fathers right hand, in Heaven; Mark 16:19, "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Its doesn't say He is inside the Father because they are omnibody? And where is the Holy Spirit while Jesus is in Heaven with the Father? Look at this, The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead is on the Earth. John 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Jesus on Earth praying to His Father, Luke 11:12, who was in Heaven. The Father speaking from Heaven about Jesus, Luke 3:22, who was on the Earth, Jesus returns to The father in Heaven and the Father sends the Holy Spirit, John 14:16, to the earth. That makes three separate divine beings. Remember this? Genesis 1:26, And God said, LET US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Was God talking to Himself? or was He talking to the Word who was in the beginning with God and who was also God, and also the Holy Spirit? Read all these Scriptures with an open honest heart, asking the Holy Spirit, who has been sent here to the Earth to help and guide us by the Father, who remains in Heaven with Christ sitting at His right hand, until the Father sends Him back to put down all sin and rebellion, and to set up His kingdom, and then, if you do not believe these scriptures, go ahead and call me all the heretics you like. I started to, and did answer specifically in red, for verses quoted, but the pattern of answer was repeating and it is easier to just state the following. A lot of the verses you quote are in figurative language, or the verses referenced in books of prophecy are speaking of ends times and the description is that of Jesus or the particular angel that was delivering the message to Ezekiel. The verse that says God is a Spirit is extremely important. That is emphatic. Verses such as pleading for God to listen does not conclude that he has corporeal ears required for Him to hear.

Again semantics. The spiritual and the physical. Both of your arguments hold truth, however it really is timing that the whole truth is evident. When we die, we depart the body of flesh (the corruptible) . We are not promised the incorruptible body until our bodies are resurrected. Just like Jesus was resurrected and became the Firstborn from the dead and He received this incorruptible body, so shall we follow suit at the resurrection. Like Paul states in I Cor. 15:51 - "in the twinkling of the eye" we shall all be changed.....the dead WILL BE RAISED IMPERISHABLE." The only promise is that when you physically die here on Earth, "absent from the body is present with the Lord. - 2Cor 5:8. When we physically die and go to be with the Lord, we don't lose who we are and we may hold some form of recognition. I say this based loosely on some scriptures. We see that during Jesus' transformation that Moses and Elijah appeared with Him and even spoke to Jesus about His departure. When Peter, John and James awoke, they saw Jesus in his glory and Moses and Elijah who was with Him. Moses and Elijah had not received their incorruptible bodies yet. But there was some type of recognizable form, just not the promised resurrected, incorruptible body, like Jesus'. We also see that in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, that in Hades, the Rich Man could see Abraham and Lazarus across the great chasm that separated them. The Rich Man in Torments and Lazarus in Paradise. The dead had recognizable form, but they were yet to be resurrected and given the incorruptible bodies.

I think you both are getting caught up in semantics. Physical body versus spiritual body. Jesus definitely was born and had a human body. When He resurrected, he definitely had a spiritual body, but not in the sense of spirit-like, ghost-like. It was very human in form, walked, talked, ate, but was metaphysically different. He could suddenly appear, disappear, walk through doors, ascend on clouds, etc. He was not physically recognizable, as he was before death. Mary, disciples, people walking on the road, did not recognize Him, until He did something familiar. For Mary, when He spoke. For the disciples, when He broke bread. This very Jesus, who rose with this metaphysically different, but very human-like formed body, will return to the Earth in this very body. He is sitting at the right hand of God in that form and will retain that form. This is the type of bodies we will one day receive. Remember, He is the Firstborn from the dead, which happened when He rose from the dead. Meaning, He was the first to be resurrected and there will be many more after Him to be resurrected. US!!!! YEA!!! While He and the Father are one, Jesus retains a different form now. Remember one of Jesus' favorite references to Himself was "The Son of Man".

Hmm. I will have to agree with Littleflower on this one. Jesus had the glory and oneness with God before the world began. Remember, He emptied Himself of His former glory to take on the human form and live amongst us. Phil.2:6 "Who, being in the very nature, God.......but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness......humbled Himself and became obedient to death." Jesus did this to complete their plan of salvation from the beginning. We see in John 17:5 that Jesus knew after His death he would be restored. "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Jesus was equal and powerful from the beginning. The Father has HIm sit at HIs right hand because it is a position of power and authority. Jesus has the name above all names and the authority over all.

I believe your assumptions are not dogmatic. We see that the Godhead has existed since eternity. We see that during the creation process, regarding man they say, "Let US make man in OUR image". We don't know at which time the God - Son relationship began. We see in Psalm 2:7 and He. 1:5 that God says, "Your are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father." At some point, and a point we cannot determine, the Godhead made this distinction so that the plan of salvation could eventually be carried out. We cannot say that Jesus had a actual body before the Incarnation, but we do know that they could take human form and visit man before the actual incarnation. Examples would be when He walked in the Garden of Eden and talked with Adam, when He appeared to Abraham and told him he would have a son. When He came down before Sodom and Gomorrah, Ge.18, and even ate with Abraham. God's plan of salvation was from the beginning. The gospel was and is eternal - Re. 14:6. God knew that Adam would sin from the beginning and His plan of salvation was from the beginning. The incarnation was simply the point at which God took on the human form, and lived a life here on Earth as a Jew, in order to pay the wages of sin for all mankind.

For those of you who want to do a serious study on whether the current Hell and punishment will last forever, I would encourage you to read the book, "The Fire That Consumes" by one of the foremost theologians on the topic, Dr. Edward William Fudge. His book, foreworded by F.F. Bruce, is a exegesis in depth on Hell. One point he carefully considers, is the Greek word used for eternal punishment. He shows how this word "Aioion"- meaning Eon, has different meanings when used as an adjective or as a noun. How this word is used in several Bible references to show eons throughout the Bible that have already come to an end, or will come to an end. How this word cannot always be translated to mean eternity that will last "forever and ever"; as some English translations have so poorly done. Well, I think this thread has run its coarse and pretty much all has been said by both camps. We have said nothing different or new that has not been hotly debated by believers during the entire church age.

Thanks Spock. Good guess. I did spend many years in Corporate America working in law, legal compliance, and all aspects of law. Degreed in that discipline as well, but I am not a practicing attorney. LOL

God clearly states in Daniel 12:4, that in the Last Days knowledge will INCREASE. Corinthians 13 you quote is the love passage. This have nothing to do with knowledge passing away. Paul simply states that even if he has all knowledge and does not have love, he has nothing.

The Second Death in Rev 20. The greek word used is "thanatos", which literary means death. Cease to exist. Remember, Jesus say to "fear him who could destroy your body and soul in hell" Destroy = put an end to existence."

Rev 21 says there will be no more death. Why? Death is gone. It was thrown into the Lake of Fire. Burned up, distinguish with Hades and the unsaved.

You are welcome. Whatever our conclusions may be, we must never think that Hell is something not so bad. It is. Those who go there will be tormented, but I believe Scriptures points to the character of God's love and that after the great white throne judgement, HADES, DEATH and those who are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and completely destroyed. That is the true SECOND DEATH. Not just a death of the body, as is the FIRST DEATH, but the complete death of the soul. Remember, Jesus said, ...fear Him who can destroy both your body and soul. The word "DESTROY" means "to put an end to existence." Cannot get around that. Blessings, while you ponder!

Hell is not Hades. Hades in the New Testament is the same place as Sheol in the OT. Before the cross, Hades was a holding place for the dead. It was two compartments. Paradise and Torments. Lk.16:19-31. Hades' nature changed after the cross. After His death Jesus descended there and preached to the spirits. I Pe.3:18-19, 4:6. After His resurrection, He took Paradise with Him. Ep.4:8-9 & 2 Cor.12:1-4. The souls of the unrighteous remain in Hades. Question is: How long will they be tormented? Traditional view is forever. The other view, is that immortality is conditional, depending on acceptance of Christ. We must remember our beliefs on the duration of Hell is not cardinal doctrine, but we nevertheless need to know it is a dreadful place. My first difficulty with the traditional view it seems to impugn His loving, merciful character. I know He is holy and righteous, but is it HIs plan to eternally torment the vast majority of mankind, who is created in His image? Second, eternal torment is contrary to some Biblical examples. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire suddenly and quickly. Destroyed the evil world of Noah, suddenly and quickly, order Canaanites killed swiftly. In the law of Moses there was no provision for incarceration or torture. Even sacrificial animals were to be killed with a precise method for quick and painless death. Third, it seems to contradict a descriptive phrase to describe Hell as the "second death". Fourth, Hell is referred to as the place of destruction. Jesus says in Mt.10:28,"Do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to DESTROY both soul and body in Hell. John 3:16....that whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH, but have eternal life." These words mean that.. Destroy and Perish. Poof, gone. Fifth, there is a difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing. You may experience a punishment that has eternal consequences but does not mean it will go on for eternity. Rev14:9-11 speaks of their torment goes up forever and ever. It does not speak of eternal torment, but that the smoke of their torment is ascending forever. This is a testimony or a reminder. This is also referred as a reminder in the destruction of Edom in IS.34:10. Edom exists today. It does not have smoke ascending. Obviously, this is a symbolic reference. This is also stated in Jude 7 regarding Sodom and Gomorrah. Sixth, Hell was created for Satan and his angels. We see Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit and tormented for ever and ever, along with the Beast and False Prophet. Lastly, I Timothy 6:15-16 states ONLY God alone possesses immorality. I Cor. 15:53 states the redeemed will not become immortal until the time of their resurrection. In other words, it is a gift of God. This begs the question. Can Hell be really eternal if the soul is not intrinsically immortal? Nevertheless, there will be a time where the souls of the unrighteous will experience time in Torments within Hell, but Revelation 20:14 clearly states that DEATH and HADES were thrown into the lake of fire. They are destroyed. After the great white throne judgment, those not written in the Book of Life are also thrown into the lake of fire. It is the second death. A complete death.

God wanted them, after they ate, and their stomachs were full, to give Him a blessing and remember His provisions.

Exactly, while Jesus encourage his followers to learn the traditions of the Pharisees, (hand washing before eating food, prayer before a meal and prayer after a meal, (God actually commanded prayer after the meal), he warned not to take them to the point of hypocrisy or demand them to be as commanding as the Holy Scriptures. By the Pharisees commanding this, they were putting a burden on the people that was more than they could bear.

You can Google "The 613 commandments of the Torah" Judaism 101 provides a list. These were mostly put together by Rambam and other Jewish sources. You will be quite busy when reading them. Glad I don't have to keep all of them.

The "Christian" term and "disciples of Yeshua" would be one in the same. Jesus commanded to go and make disciples. Christian was just the Greek word for "follower of the Messiah"; a disciple of Christ (Yeshua).