Organic Medicine

I agree. Time is a concept of the material world,and has no real meaning for God in His eternity .And I do not not think in six earth days ,but six astronomic 'days'. One of the greatest difficulties has been people who are naturally limited by time and space,putting an eternal ,and All Knowing God into their little 'box' of understanding . The bible while it hints at the incredible vastness of God,is a basic exercise book ,which is meant to get people to a certain stage of relation with God so that He can transform He can transform them for a life in heaven . Every decision ,thought ,act we make is recorded and known by Him,and has been since we were created .He did not predestine what we become,but by our reaction to situations can predict what we will do

Well here in Europe, I am getting worried,both sides are beating their drums,and since most of the EU is in moral and financial decline ,all the possibilities are in place to create a war on a grand scale . Obama,and his friends are a real scary bunch,who are intervening in another continent,and a countries internal affairs . There is a real 'pall' around the place,no life,not much hope. The terrible calm before the storm. I have never felt this before . We have banished God,and now we know what it is like to live where He is no longer given His place .

======================================================================== Currently, this is the only forum I posted the topic on. Due to the subject and the simplicity and strength of the proofs, it will be more or less the same. I only posted 4 proofs, there are about 12 in total....I didn't feel the need to "Pile ON" due to said strength. There are no answers for them on any forum or anywhere else for that matter.....why, as I said, they are grounded in the very foundations of Physics and Common Sense; especially these 2: Heat Profile and Ion Speed. To refute these and to legitimize the Thermo-Nuclear Reactor Model the said Physics and everything we know Experimentally and Observationally of the Natural World would have to be trashed.... not gonna happen. We have some "scientists" on these threads. I find the silence of those "Very Interesting"......IMHO, Speaks Volumes! It will be even more interesting when I release the "Baby Kracken" then the "Kracken" (Note: "Baby" Kracken is merely a Baby Relative to the "Kracken". It in no way reflects upon any weakness or importance of the "Baby".) However, the "Kracken" itself will bring "Secular Science" to it's knees and expose it and it's claims for what it really is..... smoke and mirrors/conjured fables in TOTO. The information was already out there it's being suppressed (OBVIOUSLY) .....I knew I would find it. We just have to Shine a "LIGHT" on it....satan can't stand the LIGHT. "Secular Science"-- I target the disciplines that have the most to say concerning......... "explaining away GOD". That would be Biology and Cosmology/Astrophysics. Stay Tuned :)Enoch, I don't understand more than a little bit ,and to do so would take more time than I have at the moment,but often God allows some people to understand 'things' ,that others have still to access,but I am sure that that you are on to something,and instead of pushing you aside 'looking for answers' should ask the Holy Spirit to help him to understand better that he may have a real discussion with you. The damage done in history by those who in their ignorance prevent those who have discovered some manifestation of God's design ,and wish to share it but are not allowed to,is legion,and a lot is documented . It happens with atheists,but even more so with people who say they are Chrstians. Instead of saying, "I don't know enough to make a decision,they say you are talking nonsense. Very cruel,and certainly not Christ like.

============================================================================= Yes, there are Scriptures that speak to this (Romans 1:21-24) "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. {22} Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. {24} Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:" Merci beaucoup .!!!!this is a good way to learn the bible

Thank you for your kind words Imoss. I've forgiven everyone and do what you said just about every morning. I think the main issue is that I don't feel comfortable when around people and hate myself for it, I just don't know how to relate to people in person or know what to talk about and that makes me not like myself. I don't know, it feels like the world is out to get me all the time because I'm not of this world. I don't hate them, rather I see in everyone's heart and spirit and what I see is scary and don't want any part of it so I withdraw from the world. But at the same time I feel and care for people and would give my shirt away if I had to. I don't like myself because I don't fit in this world, that's why I'm wondering about what that passage means in the Bible. You are a rare sensitive,too aware, soul . I went through a long phase when I found it hard to be on the earth,seeing through people,and being critical of them for being unaware,living ordinary unconcious lives,but I realised that we are all ordinary except when we are children of God .Then we come alive and we don't have to try to love ,our very simple kindnesses make the day a better one for those around us.Trying too hard ,caring about 'good' impressions are all false values,brought about by a supeficial society,and I feel the U.S. is a bit more worldly success driven than here in Europe,a bit unreal,extreme. However to answer the question,which you have already answered in saying that you would give the shirt of your back,I would say that you would be, and are a good neighbour.That is your answer . You don't have to do more.

===================================================================================================== Jerry, Re-Read the OP, I Outlined what the "Alternative" is. YES. But that's not gonna happen. The Big Bang will not be undone: SEE Satan Discussion with LFA. Enoch is it not God who 'blinds' those who chose do not believe in Him,and love Him,so that what is obvious to the enlightened,is not to those who do not have the gift oooof the Holy Spirit ? Perhaps you can help me with the bible here,as I would need to look it up on the net.

In my opinion,if you are sincere you have absolutely nothing to worry about.Real sinners,pharisees etc. do not admit to sin,do not even recognise that they have sinned .When we feel bad about turning our back on Jesus , it means that our concience(the Holy Spirit in us )is alive and well . The road is long,and steep,and we will fall,but if we correct ourselves quickly,ask to be forgiven,and keep close to Him,we will get there . See if you can find out why Jesus taught what He did in the context of the time,and why although ,He could not be pleased by any 'sin',some kinds of behaviour made Him more angry than others . Just remember there are none without sin,none ,and when people show disdain to young people struggling, as you are, it is a sign their own inner spiritual life is wanting . No one should ever be too hard with someone like you. You need to be loved and encouraged, not 'lectured' at .

As someone whose family were Roman Catholic for centuries,this is the first time I have written on anon catholic website to say that I think that it is really a corrupted monarchy which happens to have many wonderful Christian people in it, and which has allowed it to continue with it's deception from the top .As you can imagine I know quite a lot of these ' very good people' ,and on thinking about what différenciâtes them from their co religionists is that they pray to God Himself directly,and while Mary is loved and honoured ,she is not prayed to . They also know little of the contorted structures and practices ,which takes up so much time and spiritual energy of young naive priests who in not knowing thoroughly enough their bible, are unable to be pastors to their parishioners when they need help. The hierarchy plus a very superstitious and quite pagan layer at the bottom, refuse to allow a Relationship with Christ to 'free' them,for they are attached to the very materialist side of the rituals . Between the top and bottom of this Church, are caught the rest . I think that their are two churches in there . One is christian ,the other is not,and those who waken to this are getting out. This has been very hard for me to write,as I have experienced first hand the violence of protestants in Scotland,and that they too have failed God in so many ways .Until the 60's protestant Scotland made people work sundays even on Christmas day ,and it was Irish catholics who ended this practice .

Kwik, Thank you for asking, I hope it is ok but I am going to address your question and the statement from Enoch above. Let me start by saying that I do not have a problem with God's word and I would never seek to discredit or discount the Bible. Without the Bible we have nothing, we do not know of Jesus, we do not have salvation. And yes, I am a Christian, despite the seeker label assigned to me here. I have no issue with God, my hangup right now is with Christians. I can relate to Ghandi when he said "“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”. And I fully admit my experiences are limited to me and my location, but they were so consistent for years that I have a hard time not projecting them onto all Christians. I have seen the Bible used as a club to bludgeon people into the right "shape" to fit in with those wielding it. My issue is not with the Bible it is with what to me is a maddening inconsistency in how it is interpreted. Let me give you a couple of example from the last day or so. I have been told that in this one verse the first half clearly means God used words and the second half is clearly figurative....By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. To me that is so inconsistent, I view the whole thing as figurative, which to me makes a whole lot more sense. Then I am told that phrases like "His ears are open" "the Lord regretted" "spread out His wings" and many more are figurative but the phrase "and God said" is clearly not. It makes my head want to explode. Pick and side and stick to it. Then I have the different person tell me all that is needed is to be like a child to understand the Bible and then they turn around and tell me there is a hidden code that only some guy with a PHD in mathematics was able to figure out. So, which is it? Pick a side and stick to it. Is that too much to ask? And what angers me the most is when I disagree with human's views of the Bible I am accused of not loving the Lord or having an issue with His word or I have my very faith questioned. When that happens I go into defensive mode and lash back. I know it is wrong, but I am only human and I am working on it. If you think I say some things I should not you should see the things that I erase before hitting "post". All I am asking for a fair and honest exchange of information. I am very open to new things, I have changed my views on things almost monthly lately. But put me down or question my very faith and you could tell me the sky is blue and snow is white and I will out of habit argue with you. So yes, I am looking for answers, but not answers about God, but about us. I sympathise greatly with you . I have found too many christians limited in their general education and history of the world to be able to interpret certain aspects of the bible .God I believe expects us to take literally the New Testament, but the Old Testament is part of a larger history, including that of other countries and societies,and is an ongoing study. Being transformed by the Holy Spirit,makes us wonder at the glory of His wonderful creation and helps us to have confidence and be supported in His love, to be less obsessional about needing to interpret the bible, as if it was a game a code. I think it is OK and good but I see a similiarity,in the conspiracy addicts, and such christians ,which is not good.

Hidden in plain sight,always the best way to hide something . Right Under their noses . I don't know too much of revelation ,but I have always been able to sense the future . I think one of the reasons that Americans are so interested in prophecy is because their country is young and wisdom ,and knowledge of long history does not allow for the natural knowledge which comes from long reflection . The people who have 'hit' on the E.U. would be the most accurate in my opinion watching events in Europe,and the "religion" is the determined attempts to make sure that no one is allowed to have any 'religion' ,but that of 'Rights',while encouraging an atheist,secular and sexually inverted value system. Anyone who dares to stand against can be reviled ,fined or imprisoned. Since society cannot exist in a vacuum,those who try to 'prove' that you don't need God,because one can be moral,without "all that nonsense"this version of atheist religion is being introduced in schools ETC One of the things that perplexes me is the hatred of the RCC and the ignorance about certain practises As somone who prefers to have a 'free Relationship' now with my God,my experience as a young person growing up in this "abomination",until in my 20's was entirely positive,and no other experience has ever matched up. Just because I wanted to be 'free' ,does not nullify the the positive aspects of this religion,which is Christian,first and foremost if some of her practices are to be questioned ,and the clergy need to take a back seat to God (Jesus). More catholics are reading the bible themselves,and like me finding a personal relationship with Jesus directly . Early Catholic churches in europe were very simple and beautiful,and became very ornate later .Personally I find Protestant churches dark and sombre in europe, and does not show "heaven on earth",as God wanted it. (the Lord's prayer)

Enoch, I don't believe that the earth is billions of years old but older than than 6,OOO years ,and I think that now the atheistic darwinians are being proved wrong about not needing God because we had time to evolve,(billions of years indeed) AN awful lot of time has been taken up in the last 200 years in believing in this false theory.Good scientists have had to use energy in battles against nihilistic theories in society in universities,in schools etc It has produced so much strife ,but God is testing us pushing us to learn, how to debate.We are living in a school planned and organised like a computer programme to get us to be ready for Heaven .The bible was written 2-4000years ago to give us an overall picture of God' plans for us ,but He is clearly to me anyway,guiding our growth always. The internet and the computer are a metaphor which shows us how He is doing this ,but if you are not looking in the right direction you can miss all of that . I am looking forward to new findings on the older age of the earth,and other civilisations etc ,but,we are certainly coming into a very 'historic moment in God's plans .

Dear Shiloh All I can say is you have a great deal to learn ,especially about history, and all the information that would be in those "books" about what Jesus taught if they would be understood by all. Yes no doubt the bible is what should be followed by those who wish to enter "the kingdom of heaven" ,but the other books, would they have been beyond the masses AT THE TIME? I think so . When Jesus was asked to summarise what was Essential, He said to love God ,and his fellow men. You insist that the earth is 6000 years old. It does not say that in the bible,but is an idea which is disputed ,not by atheist scientists,but by christian ones,people of great Learning and experience,with trial and error ,and who love and believe in Jesus as God and Saviour .They do not want the blood of martyrs ,but the truth. So is it essential ? If not why plug it has being so,when it is in doubt? I will not be able to reply to any posts ,but wish you well.

I used to think we'd sit on clouds and play the harp for all eternity, and that we'd like it because...it was heaven. Haha. I don't know what it will be like in heaven exactly, but I do know it will be awesome. Are we reading the same article? I just read almost this exact thing yesterday. lol Good stuff. You know, I think different ideas of "heaven" and "being saved" or not ,are at the heart of most christian conflicts. Many are ready to take up arms to defend their version of "heaven" ,thereby creating "hell" on earth, Ironic ,? . Yes, well I 'm sure that we will get to play harps,as well as all the other things we will be doing. How about the idea that we know what we won't be doing ,being clearer ,and we know that there will be no more disaccord because we will be truly in Gods' "hands",in His territory,with only light and love in our minds and hearts,as we create our works .

I used to think we'd sit on clouds and play the harp for all eternity, and that we'd like it because...it was heaven. Haha. I don't know what it will be like in heaven exactly, but I do know it will be awesome. Are we reading the same article? I just read almost this exact thing yesterday. lol Good stuff.

I have known for many years that Indian civilisation was the most Advanced known on earth ,and that Christ had appeared there about 10,000years ago ,and created an Advanced civilisation here on earth,which spread around the world . If you read well enough, you will find out about it throughl the internet ; God either created All of creation ,or He did not,and if He did He created why are people afraid to look at what He created . Why could I not talk about to christians? Because they did not want to know,None of the churches would listen,because there is a lie at the centre of fundamental christian teaching which is of the devil ,and it is around the age of God's creation , and His purpose. It is freeing and it is quite wonderful,when understand,and I have lived for so many years t has been a horrible experience,and I am glad that the news of archaelogical finds are coming out ,because maybe the truth will come out now.

; For Sheniy. I didnt' use your quote because it gets too long,that is the with multi quotes,but you asked why I said "in heaven we don't stagnate", and you wondered why I said that . Well it was a bit hyperbolic,but as children we saw the image of heaven with adam and eve standing in a garden ,just standing .I remember some time ago ,a Young 'atheist' on a board said he did'nt want to go to heaven anyway ,because he would be completely bored . I laughed ,but you can see it is one of the many false ideas that young,and not so young have of 'life eternal' ,that they will be bored stiff (forever).

You are probably thinking of, "King of Kings" with Jeffery Hunter. It was far from Scripturally accurate. I don't think Jesus was "otherworldly." Jesus had a pretty good sense of humor and even children, who are the best judges of character in the world, were comfortable around Him. Too many movies want to portary Jesus as if He walked two feet above the ground. Frankly, if we walked around acting like how they portray Jesus in those movies, people would think we were pretty weird. So I don't think Jesus had that "otherworldly" aspect in His personality. It is certainly not .That would be a rather matinee idol type of film . IT must have been Ben Hur .

I will have to agree with Shiloh about death being both physical and spiritual. The L-rd says that "the wages of sin is DEATH, but the Gift of G-d is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our L-rd. Adam and Eve were made complete and perfect. G-d does not make any thing void or lacking. What He makes is good and perfect. They were given free will and could choose to disobey. They were allowed to eat from all in the garden, including the Tree of Life, except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The Tree of Life could cause them to live forever. However, when they ate of the forbidden tree, they sinned and their wages for that sin was Death. Now, they would eventually physically die, (no longer access to the Tree of Life), and die spiritually - separation from G-d. We who believe in the L-rd, have passed from death to life, and have been given the gift of eternal life. We are no longer separated from G-d, but we all will still physically die. We will then forever be with the L-rd and we will be granted the right to eat from the Tree of Life. See Rev. 22:14. Good morning shar, Let me get this straight-are You are saying that as long as adam was eating from the tree of life he would have eternal life. This implies he NEEDS to eat and continue to eat of that fruit in order to keep on living physically. Is this what you meant to say? Thus, you said when he sinned, God took away his fruit which I guess means he is losing his source of nourishment to keep on physically living for eternity, and ultimately he died at the age of 930. Is this an accurate assessment of what you are saying? My question is simply this? Are you saying man was not created with a promise for eternal life, but rather HAD to eat of the fruit in order to acquire eternal life? In other words, Adam did not have eternal life apart from eating the fruit? I'm still somewhat fuzzy on this. Thanks. I hope my question isn't frustrating. Spock I don't think Heaven is a lace of stagnation,but a place,like garden,where there are cycles of growth. Perhaps just as a gardener or an agriculturalist needs to sow his seeds regularly,at the right time ,maybe we need to do something like that in heaven. I can't imagine that we sit around all the time doing nothing.

Yes I can. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, which is a standard reference for students of Hebrew has this to say about the word, "mut" (Heb. to die): "The normative OT teaching about death is presented i Gen. 3:3 where God warns Adam and EVe that death is the result of rebellion against His commands. Since God's purpose for our first parents was never ending life, the introduction of death was an undresiralbe, but necessary result of disobedience. The physical corruption of the physical of the human body and the consequent suffering and pain brought about by the Fall were only the obvious symptoms of death. Death is the consequence and the punishment of sin. It originated with sin. A grand theme of the OT is God's holiness, which separates Him from all that is not in harmony with His character. Death, then in the OT means ulimate separation from God due to sin and sin is any rebellion or lack of conformity to His holy will. All men are then in a sense what the Hebrews call, "sons of death," that is, they deserve to die because they are sinners." (TWOT, vol. 1, p 497) This really doesn't disagree with anything I've previously stated. This isn't the reference I was looking for. There was something on the last half of the verse about the consequences of sin. I was expecting more of a breakdown of the phrase you quoted in Hebrew. Btw, this looks like an excellent resource for studying the bible. I added it to my amazon wishlist. Would you recommend it? The problem with that is that one doesn't need to know one letter of Hebrew to know and understand that God's word. You...just reworded my statement. What's the problem? Not sure what you were trying to argue here. I honestly don't see anything here I disagree with. Death is the consequence of sin. Ok. Man sinned and spiritually died, God removed the Tree of Life (or removed man from the Garden), man began to revert back to his original state of dust (aka physical death). (This really makes sense if we include clb's Holy of Holies in the Garden idea. I wish he were here to give his thoughts on this) Death isn't a thing to be created or destroyed. It is the absence of life. Same as dark is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat. Death, dark, and cold are just names we give to describe the absence of something. They are not things in themselves, therefore can't be made or unmade. If you remove the source of light from a room, you have no light. Flick on the light and the darkness will flee. But you can't add a source of darkness to a lit room. The lowest temperature possible, absolute zero (-273.15 degrees celcius) is the lack of all energy (heat). There is no source of cold. Same goes for death. Remove the Source of Life, and you have no life. When the Source of Life returns, we will all have new bodies, and death will be no more. So could the 'tree of life' be the source of light and energy,(of God) and we must accept to 'tune' into it or we become cold as death,like the reptiles ,which would not have existed in heaven.

Hi organic! Just curious, what else do you look to as God's word? You mentioned the "gift of the Spirit". Is your background pentacostal or something similar? First ,I am horrified by the bad setting of the post ,please excuse,it is a new one,french style,and I must get accustomed to the difference. Dear Sheniy, My background is originally Roman Catholic,but I study a lot ,and worked with people from India ,and other backgrounds.

Hello from Europe. I myself have doubts about portraying God in film etc .,but whether or not it can subtly 'create' a sense of the Holiness,and greatness of Jesus will depend on the extent of the gift of the Holy Spirit, in both the director ,and the actors ; I am quite old,and have seen a few portrayals of Jesus ,(not Mel Gibson's),and there is only one,which name I cannot remember,made in the 50's which captured the 'other worldliness of Him. Now that we are talking of films about Jesus ,I would love to find that one.