EnochBethany

You got it, pardon me the colorful expression. Something bothers you, pray to God. In time you will get the answer. Might take a week, might take years, but if the question is of some relevance and so, God will provide. Wisdom is from the spirit. Colorful: I recall a message on being a colorful Christian by an artist president of a Bible college who painted the place with bright colors. As to "you will get the answer," when did Job get his answer?

You might read Rev 17-18 & see how many times in both chapters mystery Babylon is called a city. I never said it wasn't a City. In Fact, it hasn't been destroyed yet and sits about 55 Miles South of Baghdad. Point In Fact, Saddam was Rebuilding it!! However, The "Mystery Religions" left there and after residing in various places through the Centuries Plopped Down Right on Rome and the RCC. Having said that, Read THIS!!!.......... (Zechariah 5:5-11) "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. {6} And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. {7} And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. {8} And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. {9} Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. {10} Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? {11} And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base." Shinar is mentioned 7 times in Scripture and is associated with Babylon....if Babylon is the City, Shinar is the County. Guess what Zechariah is saying here.......basically, that the "Mystery Religions" will relocate AND GO HOME!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never been destroyed. When I took a course in fulfilled prophecy, the never to be rebuilt thing was featured as a proof of fulfilled prophecy. The illustration the prof used was by reading from Chiera's book, They Wrote on Clay where vividly the desolate site of Babylon is described in detail. I know that the other POV is that the destruction of Babylon is yet to be fulfilled. Someone told me that an Arab was paid to stay over night on the site in a tent. Maybe you can convince me; but IMHO Babylon refers to Rome. So have at me if you wish.

From having been saved by grace through faith, only to be condemned into trying to keep it though my own commitment, obedience and perseverance. Scripturally, what is Jesus saving us from? the future we deserve... What does the Lord Jesus save us from? First of all He saves us from our wretched selves, by transforming the one who trusts Him as Savior, changing him from a sinful Adamic man to a child of God. We are members of the race of Adam, described in Romans 1. Here is our wretched state from which He saves us, merely for trusting in Him: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them. 2:1 Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. 3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 who will render to every man according to his works: Second, He saves us from judgment for our sins. He paid for them on the cross. He gives us transformation and eternal life, escape from punishment in the Lake of Fire, banished from God's presence & blessings. He saves us from missing out on a life in companionship with Him with all tears wiped away, nothing but bliss.

The present low interest rate is hard to believe, especially if one remembers the rate under Jimmy Cahtuh.

Don't you conclude from Luke 15 that persons can't come back from Hades?

Of course God is omnipresent. So He is within & without everything. But what leads you to suppose that one can talk of "the human spirit" and God doing something in the human spirit, as if there were one collective human spirit? One might ask what is God doing in the Church, the Body of Christ. One might ask what does God do inside a Christian human being. Christ may dwell in the Christian human's heart by faith (Eph 3). In Eph 3 it appears that what Christ does there results in the Christian being rooted and grounded in love with the further result of him being filled to all the fullness of Godf.

You claim, "Our one God has 7 Spirits." Well, apparently the Holy Spirit is called 7 spirits in Revelation and the Lord Jesus has the Holy Spirit. But that is different from saying God has 7 spirits and that these are dispersed in the Body of Christ (the Church). In fact God is A spirit. He has no body that would "have" a spirit or spirits. A demon possessed person might have 7 spirits! Your teaching sounds like strange incense.

That's a stretch..... if it's that literal, then why call it Mystery Babylon? should we say that if Babylon is the city, Shinar is the shoes?

That's a stretch..... if it's that literal, then why call it Mystery Babylon? So there is the other view, that Babylon is Babylon, despite 7 hills (are there hills in Mesopotamia?) and despite ruling over the kings of the world, & despite the prophecy that Babylon would never be rebuilt. Of course I know that the POV is not that easy to dismiss as methinks notable Bible-believing scholars have put forth that POV. As to calling it mystery, I would take that to mean that the truth about this Babylon was unrevealed until John gave the info, consistent with the meaning of mystery in the NT. I think 2021 agrees with me that a city = a city = a city. If the literal makes sense seek no other sense. Now it appears to me that city is the divine interpretation of the symbol & that it makes no sense once a symbol is explained to take the explanation as figurative and then reinterpret it a 2nd time. Does it make sense that we get an explanation of a figure, but the explanation is a figure?

I like the name bopeep; my wife used to have a friend whom I dubbed Bo Peep.

From where did they get the name switchfoot? I never heard of them, but the name sounds interesting.

This is the most ICONIC WORSHIPED IMAGE...and it looks nothing like what is in Numbers 2. This has been proven, yet you still stick your head in the sand and go na na na na. Where does the word "cross" occur in Numbers 2? Was crucifixion invented by 1500 BC?

======================================================================================= If you track the Mystery Religions after the Fall of Babylon (Proper) and after they left Pergamos, they lead dead smack on top of Rome and The RCC. When Constantine et al decided to make Christianity Legal..... they put a Christian Facade on no less than 3 Sun gods: ---The Syrian Solar Cults of * Sol Invictus (the unconqueable sun) * Jupiter Dolichenus (the Roman Storm god) --- The Persian Cult of * Mithra (the ancient Iranian god of light) And then turned all the lesser "gods" into Patron Saints. The Blood of The Saints.....How many Christians were Killed? Nimrod was recognized as the first sun god and has about 50 names (some you would recognize: Osiris, Gilgamesh, Baal...). His Wife Semiramis has about 200 names some of which are: Queen Mother/Queen of Heaven, Ishtar, Ashtoreth, Europa, Diana. They're ALL THE SAME PERSON with different names...same procedure with her Husband Nimrod and their son Tammuz. Mother of Harlots....that's an Apostate Church. The Harlots are what came out of her..... what came out of the RCC?? Abominations is another way of saying Idol Worship. See: Abomination that makes Desolate. So what came out of her? Lets see what we come up with.......Some people are not gonna like the answers to this question, Most Assuredly! I really like how you made the text bold for the words most and assuredly. LOL!!! One word conspicuously absent from Rev 17-18 (as well as Rev 6-18) is "church" ekklesia. There is no "ekklesia" in Rev 17-18. On the other hand there are several refs to polis = city (cf. our word policeman). IMHO, a city = a city = a city. Now what city was on 7 hills & ruled over the kings of the world when John wrote Rev? Is that rocket sci?

What leads you to id the city with the Vatican? The Vatican is surely not on 7 hills; the city of Rome is (proverbially) the city on 7 hills. Consider that the word is fornication, not commit adultery. And if it were adultery, one would have to postulate that the RCC was somehow a legitimate bride of Christ. Israel in the OT was called an adulterer, but Israel was legitimate wife of YHWH, figuratively speaking. I have long thought that people were reading in religion into a passage which is not about religion, but a city.

As to what fasting is, it is important to consider the context carefully; is it talking about a religious practice or merely not-eating (as for example because of stress or no food available). Abridged & shortened articles from BDAG Lexicon on the 3 words, one = fast νηστεία (a noun), one νῆστις (another noun) = not eating, hungry, the other (to) fast νηστεύω, a verb : [it doesn't take long to learn the Greek alphabet. Only these characters are not recognizable from English here: ν = n, η = ē (e in señor) ω = ō (long o), the omega, σ = s] νηστεία ‘fasting’. 1. the experience of being without sufficient food, going hungry gener., of hunger brought about by necessity: pl. of oft-recurring situations through hunger 2 Cor 6:5. often without food 11:27. 2. the act of going without food for a devotional or cultic purpose, fast a. of public fasts: of the Day of Atonement b. of private fasting, Of Moses on the mountain Mt 17:21; Mk 9:29 v.l. ; 1 Cor 7:5 v.l. Lk 2:37. pray and fast Ac 14:23. νηστεύω, to fast as a devotional rite, among Jews and Christians: as a sign of grief Mt 9:15 v.l.; Mk 2:19f; Lk 5:34f and Jesus Mt 4:2 fast for forty days and forty nights. Ac 13:3. Ac 13:2 Jesus and his disciples do not fast Mt 9:14; Mk 2:18; Lk 5:33 Right and wrong attitudes in fasting Mt 6:16–18. (Mt 5:44) Pious Israelites used to fast twice a week Lk 18:12, on Monday and Thursday. νῆστις = not eating, hungry [listed as a noun, but strictly should be called an adj.] Mt 15:32; Mk 8:3. There is a significant difference in occurrences between the Textus Receptus & the older manuscripts; the TR (KJV) has more occurrences.

"Apparently fasting and prayer was common in the early church." What evidence do you have of fasting among Gentiles in the early church?

So For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:1 Amen If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 And Thus Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. Psalms 2:1-3 We Daily Witness He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Psalms 2:4-5 The World's Rage Against Israel Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:6-7 And Against The Peoples Of The Big Book Of Yeshua, Of Jesus The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Zechariah 12:1-3 ~ Dear Brother Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31:20 Wonderful Subject I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon. His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon. Hosea 14:4-6 About The Faithful And The True Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. Jeremiah 16:14-15 About The LORD Jesus For the LORD will restore the splendor of Jacob Like the splendor of Israel, Even though devastators have devastated them And destroyed their vine branches. Nahum 2:2 (NASB) Messiah For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5 Love, Your Brother Joe "I grant their premise that Israel is the suffering servant. To their delight." I don't see how any careful reasoning of Isaiah 53 could put Israel in there as the one on whom the Lord laid the iniquity of us all.

"Jewish roots is what is taught in mainstream Messianic Judaism which shows the Jewishness of Jesus" And I suppose that they don't distinguish between being Israelite & being Jew?

What leads you to suppose that each group of encampment extended in a narrow corridor leaving 4 empty huge spaces at the corners?

Jealousy is a big sin.You are mistaken. Well Bo Peep, your saying so doesn't make you right. I prefer the Word of God. < Deut 6:15 "for YHWH thy God in the midst of thee is a jealous God." If jealousy were a sin, then God would be a sinner. But He is not. "Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth" "Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; righteous and true are thy ways, thou King of the ages." "O YHWH, the God of Israel, thou art righteous" "Who shall not fear, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy; for all the nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy righteous acts have been made manifest." Bo Peep, I suggest that you do a concordance study of all the Bible passages on jealousy. Maybe you should do a concordance study on pride. Well, pride is a big sin, & certainly an important topic as in Dan 4.

"the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." This verse has more to do with the debate on universalism than on Calvinism. I heard it quoted as an attempt to support the theory that all men are saved by Christ. My interp is that Christ is indeed the Savior of all men in the sense that His death on the cross enables God to do good to all men in many ways in addition to regeneration. The rain falls on the just & unjust. In fact, IMHO, if God could not have looked to Christ's death in the future, when Adam sinned the whole race would have been terminated at that point. But God gives men in general a time of probation, by his grace, with many blessings, a period of time in which they can trust Christ as Savior (in OT trust YHWH as Savior). Now I am only a 4.5 point Calvinist! So that's what I think. More to the point is 1 John 2:2 which indicates that Christ is the propitiation for all men's sins, & God so loved the WORLD that He gave. And that He died for all. So in some sense Christ died for all. But the special inclusion of Church members in Christ's death by baptism in Romans 6, is limited to Christians. That is why I say 4.5 points. However, as to Calvinism, I don't claim to dogmatically understand election completely, though election is definitely taught in the Bible.

We are speaking of ancient Jews, not those alive today. The Old Testament has literally 1000s of examples of the Jews not following the intent of the law let alone the letter of the law. Actually, LFA, what you presented was not a valid argument. Yes, they disobeyed and rebelled many times, but so does everyone - including us. (Disobedience and doubt are not Jewish-exclusive.) And while they disobeyed and rebelled many times, it was not every time. If they screwed up with this one, it would have been mentioned. Concerning Compliance, it was mentioned.... (Numbers 2:34) "And the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses: so they pitched by their standards, and so they set forward, every one after their families, according to the house of their fathers." Very interesting the elevator. It seems humorous of course to a non-Jewish person. One thing I think we must remember in interacting with such persons is that their religion is more based on the Talmud than on the OT. As to the elevator, do they play music in it, like the Grand Old Duke of York?

what would a Roman crucifixion cross look like? Do you have some ancient source written before AD 200 ?

should not perish, but not definitely will not perish...... because there is more to it than just the simple English definition of that word believe. Later translations do use the word shall not instead of should not and their is a world of difference in that phrase..... and it can give one a false sense of security when that security is not a reality because some refuse to do the will of the Father in their daily lives. John 3:16 is a beginning.... but only a beginning. Should is quite clear & correct. Christ's death is that you should not perish. But you can do so if you insist. You must believe in the Son to have eternal life. I suggest that you read Ps 119 on this subject. By grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works ! It all fits together beautifully. Shall not: I heard that in a popular Christian movie & noted that it was not the Biblical word in John 3:16. That is a good point.

Yes, good verse. How about the commandment to sing & make melody in your heart to the Lord?