Cross Reference

Assuming there was such, what about all the wasted time and expenses needlessly incurred because God was not in it? Why act presumptuously supposing God to bless it because we do it in His Name? Has He not said. "Wait on Me"? If you believe I am in it, will I not open a door for it to happen, will I not make a way? But then, I am a Pentecostal. . .

Yes, a promise to all who will receive it. Grace is not extended to those who reject Christ. Nor to those who reject obedience in the afterwards of their salvation. No. Grace is not an incarnation. The Word can only be that by the new birth. Grace is the venue for the life of the Father by Jesus Christ through our "yearning" for it. Believing is a variable and can be totally absent without such "yearning". Being grounded and settled in our faith secures [seals] us to God. That is why the warning to the Christian to examine himself on a continual basis. . . . to draw near to God. "Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; . . . . . . . . . If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" Colossians 1:4,5; 23 (KJV) The tiny prep. "if" is used 600 + times in the KJV NT.

All love without God has a hook in it. Loving God as He desires [prescribes] we do, takes that hook out to where we love others as He loves us.

Please explain what you mean by this? Consider that whatever we focus on in life is what we truly worship. What is the first of the ten commandments? What did Jesus say about putting our hand to the plough? Lu. 9:62 Did not Jesus say: "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:33 (KJV) Why don't we do we do that __ except we have other gods in our life and use excuses and Bible verses to keep them intact? We want Jesus but we love our lives.. And then we have this by Jesus: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26 (KJV) Is that not why God leads off the ten commandments with that first one about us having no other but, Him?

I asked you before what books are you reading??? Your understanding is conjectured. It may have had an influence, it may not have had a influence. We don't know except Satan is more than persuasive when dealing with innocence. The only point to be made is that she ate of something forbidden her to eat of and she did it without a possessing a sinful nature. How, without possessing one, is the question around which you are building your case. What lust????? Eve lusted?? More conjecture! She was innocence! Where did this lust come from, do you suppose? That is no answer. Why wasn't He?? No confusion here. Seems you are, though. Jesus wasn't born. Adam was intended by God to the Word made flesh. Pay attention. Words do mean something. Adam was a super-human individual or don't you believe that? Need some evidence? I have no problem and everything following in the scriptures, fit. You can't claim that. That is true. They needed no such knowledge at this point is time. God was to be everything they needed for whatever may have come they way from the Devil. Upon God's satisfaction they were ready for Divinity, they would have stepped over into glorification where ALL knowledge would have been revealed to them and they could have handled it. This is exactly how Jesus [Who had all knowledge], exampled it after having completing all the Father's "work" over Satan before stepping over into glory on the mt transfiguration. Again, Adam and Eve were given a command to be obeyed. They disobeyed. They were not naive about anything. God was to be their High Tower! Their Fortress! Though they were super-human, they lacked the power of God to come against Satan who no man, of himself, can withstand! God asked the question of her to get her to consider her disobedience!! Let's stop playing games for personal advantage.

Yes, a promise to all who will receive it. Grace is not extended to those who reject Christ. Nor to those who reject obedience in the afterwards of their salvation. Do you see yourself as perfect in your walk with Christ, obedient in every way? You mean have I overcome in this life? No __ However, I press forward toward that mark with all the conviction I can muster. Then, by your own statement, His grace no longer abides to you. I would rethink your stance, if I were you. Scripture never states what you claim. You are putting a very large stumbling block in front of yourself and others. A false one at that. When I fail, I repent and move on. How can I do that? Because "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 (KJV)That is the grace of God for every born again Christian striving to conform himself to the image of Christ. Overcoming one's flesh is hardly ever without experiential demonstration in both failure and success __ more failures than successes.

You should not need anything to back it up in addition to the account. Don't you believe God made Adam's dominion, [greater than you have it to be], conditioned upon his obedience? Remember what God purposed for Himself in having created man that only obedience was necessary for fulfilling it. Perhaps me saying Adam was "gifted" instead of promised, contingent upon his obedience, would have helped you. Did God not say in effect, "because you have done this thing you will know my breach of promise"?

Yes, a promise to all who will receive it. Grace is not extended to those who reject Christ. Nor to those who reject obedience in the afterwards of their salvation. Do you see yourself as perfect in your walk with Christ, obedient in every way? You mean have I overcome in this life? No __ However, I press forward toward that mark with all the conviction I can muster.

Only one command__ don't eat of that tree. Adam forfeited what was gifted him by disobedience. Obviously then, what he was gifted was on the condition of his obedience __ a promise that would have otherwise been fulfilled. Another good example of this is the promise made to the children of Israel before they ever left Egypt. Can you say what it was and why God didn't effect the fulfillment of it for forty years?

If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise cntingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed. First off, I like your screen name. A lot. Secondly, I am wondering what it was Adam was promised. my mind Is drawing a blank. and also i look at it like this.... adam and eve did not have knowledge of good and evil so it isnt like they knew it was a lie. The hebrew word for the tree of knowledge of good and evil literaly means to close or fasten the eyes... therefore the serpents lie was by eating the fruit that closes or fastens the eyes your eyes will be opened. it was like stealing candy from a baby. Hi Cletus! Thank you! The promise to Adam was dominion over the earth. God gave him everything except divinity. The proviso that, had it been obeyed, would have secured to him the indwelling of the Word of God; incarnation of the Godhead. Adam would have become God in glorified flesh and bone AND blood, able to procreate a vast family of sons for God __ Satan of course, being defeated. [that is the short version, there is more] Question: Why did God not want Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge except Adam was not prepared to handle ALL of the knowledge, the full swing of the pendulum, between good or evil. He would have been like a bull in a china shop. Now, ponder that to apply it to a new born Christian __ Is he ready to handle the Glory of God? Was Jesus, from His natural birth? And the new born Christian, from his Spiritual birth? . . . . When was God satisfied that He called Jesus His "only begotten son"? When do you suppose he would be satisfied to call any of us His son?

Yes, a promise to all who will receive it. Grace is not extended to those who reject Christ. Nor to those who reject obedience in the afterwards of their salvation.

Please don't blame if you can't figure out my posts. This "IPB skin by IPBForumSkins Community Forum Software by IP.Board is the "pits".

The "promise" was for him to have dominion over all earth, period. God revealed nothing more to him and left him alone to prove his allegiance. That's not the entire picture The *fulfillment will be when all the earth is "filled with the glory of the Lord by a vast family of redeemed Sons with Jesus as "Head".. That's not the entire picture again...you getting close so I can give you a point for it Tell me more. Let's compare notes. I gave you the clue, if your truly struggling with this then I shell tell you...but its really not difficult OK. So who you reading? The Bible...I gave you the clue, if you go to the bible Ill make it even more easier for you...why was Satan kicked out of Heaven? and its the same thing we see here in Gen 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Now theres three words in Gen 3:5 I'm looking for I am not struggling. If you say it is only the Bible you are reading, may I suggest that you turn it right side up? You cannot find, except to conjecture, anywhere in it pages that says more than what is stated,i.e., Be fruitful, multiply and, one command, don't eat of that tree. That's it. Who told you that when all Satan was trying to do was get her to doubt God so she eat of what, no doubt was a beautiful fruit. '. . Hath God said you will surely die?' It wasn't about her wanting to be like God. "We will get to "thats it" in a little bit...the three words I was looking for "was like God" that is what our fulfillment is, it is why also Satan was cast out of Heaven, it was why eve ate the apple and it is why Jesus Came to earth." And wrong conclusion. Eve possessed no intimate relationship with God as Lucifer to suggest such a motivation. Negative! Thinking and doing is not the same thing. Wouldn't you have concluded it differently had she only thought about it but then, obeyed? Did not even Jesus have to "overcome" His temptations? But all were temptations spoken to Him for His consideration. How did He overcome whereas Eve could be persuaded not to partake? This question deserves an answer. Nope. Wrong. Sin only couching at the door is not consummated until let in. Being subjected to vanity is not being subjected to sin. Then He couldn't have been God when tempted, could He? "Morality of life"? Morality is life. Adam was created innocent. By a series of moral choices he would have been incarnated by the Word, as in "The Word made flesh". How? By eating of the "Tree of Life". Why was he kicked out of the garden? Not really. It's very simple to understand if you lay aside all the stuff you want to factor in that has no bearing on anything __ if you read your Bible correctly. However, I can agree with your conclusion because I see John 17:3 providing for it in __ promise form.

I am not struggling. If you say it is only the Bible you are reading, may I suggest that you turn it right side up? You cannot find, except to conjecture, anywhere in it pages that says more than what is stated,i.e., Be fruitful, multiply and, one command, don't eat of that tree. That's it.

I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Indeed it is by grace, isn't it? How do we receive such grace? Are you married? Do you have children? You don't need to increase the font or continue to place your words in bold. I may be over 60, but I can still read well enough. I am not sure what your question has to do with the subject, but, yes, married for well over 30 years, have 5 children and 5 grand children. Grace is a free gift to us from God. We cannot "earn" grace. What is your point in asking? Grace is a promise. More later. . . .

I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Indeed it is by grace, isn't it? How do we receive such grace? Are you married? Do you have children?

God told adam and eve to multiply... have children. Adam was to tend the garden also. Eve was to help Adam. I think that was thier mission. Not sure mission would be the best term to use but thats the best I got. My reply, to cletus, was this: If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise contingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed. This from you is doesn't connect the dots: "But that's exactly how the account reads, you forget their motivation came from their Godly souls". What "Godly souls" do you suppose they possessed when they were purposed by God to become Holy by incarnation????? "Because the "mission" which is the *fulfillment is still the promise, the promise didn't become obsolete because Adam and Eve chose between one holiness and another." The "promise" was for him to have dominion over all earth, period. God revealed nothing more to him and left him alone to prove his allegiance. The *fulfillment will be when all the earth is "filled with the glory of the Lord by a vast family of redeemed Sons with Jesus as "Head".. "Ill give you a clue...what is it that we all desire? Its the same thing that Eve and Satan desired. In fact God went as far as sending us Jesus Christ so we may fulfill this desire. It's got everything to do with being biblical. Please dont tell me it's just eternal life its more than that and it ties in with everything we have been discussing and on the innocence of Adam and Eve" Tell me more. Let's compare notes. "Procreating and laboring in the soil is just part of the journey its not the fulfillment" Never said it was. However, I did imply procreation continues but needed redeeming. Enter Jesus Christ. "To answer your other question...I dont belong to any denomination" OK. So who you reading?

the gift is by grace; by one man__ words do mean something. . . A tiny prep. can change the whole dynamic of a sentence.

Putting God first is only to make Him #1 on a list of other gods.

"All scripture flows together and is not centered in any one chapter, but on God. Try to keep this in mind when you study." You mean like how 2 peter 1: 1-11 and Col.1:1-23 go together? I agree. There is that flowing, isn't there? "2 Peter 1 instructs one in how to live and mature in Christ so when they do His will, which is their calling and election, they will not question if they are doing His will or not and will not stumble or fall." 2 Peter 1 is addressed to those living in the "promise" who have not yet attained the fulfillment of it in this life as it is the "wilderness experience" all must journey through to be proven. Sorta like, "working out our salvation in fear and trembling"? "The Greek word ptaiste means "ye-should-be-tripping". Call it stumbling or call it falling, makes no difference to me, though stumbling is more like tripping than falling is." Try understanding it as falling from God's grace __ and not "tripping" or "stumbling" in or from it to whatever one is cutoff or hindered from proceeding in his journey. "How can 2 Peter be preparatory for Colossians when it was written after Colossians?" Yes. And one was written in Jerusalem while the other at Colosse. Does that matter given the substance and to whom it was directed, given some were mature and some were immature, Christians?? "I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy." Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with CHrist" Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? "One can see if they are His, but one cannot know the depth of their commitment with Him by their actions." Yes. And? Is commitment the question anyone should have? "Look around at all the false teachers and false prophets who claim the name of Christ and His anointing when they preach and teach." Whose gauge are you using for measuring them as "false"? Are all false? Seems you believe so without exception. I would be careful. "If we are to use their fruit, then their following would provide a reason to believe they are from God. " Do you know their commitment? Do you know their depth? But yet, you judge. "We can know that they are not His," How? Whose "unlearned opinion" speaks against them when not even Jesus spoke against them in His day? but how close or how far they are from Him we cannot know. Only God knows the hearts of men." Then why call them false? Why not just be "wise"? Perhaps "lawless" [as in presuming "intimacy]] would be a better word to use __ but only for some, not all. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never "knew" you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness]". Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Lov'in Jesus . . . Cross

If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise contingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed.

They had no mission. Since it isn't Biblical, may I ask where are you getting that 'reasoning' and what denominational persuasion you are?

Adam and Eve had no such inclinations. They were innocent, remember? I'll give you two outta three. Want to try again?

I believe it would depend on who is doing the tempting, i.e., is it God, Self, or Satan? The outcome will reveal who [still] has our allegiance. Even with Jesus was this so since what He possessed of the Father was, nevertheless in promise form for which He was to be proven. He 'learned obedience by the written word of God'. "Self" began its work after Holy Spirit lead/drove Jesus into the wilderness and left Him alone to hunger. Jesus won the victory over Self, however, God then allowed Satan to come against Jesus to do his thing. Jesus won the victory against him, as well. In all of this was it allowed of God to be no different than how God handled Abraham: "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of". Genesis 22:1-2 (KJV) There can no question Abraham was approached by Satan in an attempt to create doubt with the words "Hath God said?" - - with Abraham replying, "Yes! God hath said!" __ and it was counted unto him as righteousness! Promises were made to both men. Abraham, we have the history that revels the fulfillment. Jesus, we have "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory". Mark 13:26 (KJV) Re, The Lords Prayer: "find nothing in me to censure that you should lead me into temptation to be proven, but, deliver me from the evil one". Its not about obedience...It's about endurence One point at time, Bro.. It is not about endurance for success or failure but most importantly, success. Success brings the fulfillment. Obedience is to belief God or, go my own way when the problem, purposed by Him is presented me. Remember the 10 spies and the result of their unbelief? "Success in believing" would have allowed the children to enter the "promised land". Then we can formulate the following to approach temptation: Obedience is faith in Success of a temptation Endurance is the physical participation in faith to achieve the success through temptation Success is the end result or escape of the temptation to justify a fulfillment and who said we are not made righteous by our works? Consider Innocent, sinless, Adam. Do you believe he fits your "summation".

"Self is the participation of the test. God or Satan set the parameters but ultimately controlled by God" Self is our "flesh", that which wants it's own way that must be overcome by the new life of our new birth. The children of Israel were full of it. Read the account again if you have to but, read in that light. God gave a problem after only three days out from the crossing of the Red sea, "bitter waters". That wasn't the devil. God did it to find out what was in their hearts.