Sister

Shalom Retrobyter Nice to finally converse with you. I know glory is not a place. but I do know the saints will meet the Lord in the air. I was just pointing out to Marilyn that we don't have to know the original greek or hebrew to understand what God is saying to us, for God chose the simple of this world, not the scholars or the wise, so why should we trust them? Psalms 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple. The holy spirit does not work that way. I know that there is only one translation that has not been changed. Maybe a few spelling errors corrected, and initial books taken out, and side notes that shouldn't be in there, but overall, the doctrine remains the same. The Words have not changed. We are allowed to use God's written Word to reprove and correct. Now how can we do that if ones version has a word altered? There are many translations now, and all put there to confuse. Man keeps trying to improve the bible. It never needed improving, it was perfect to begin with. Like I pointed out, the good seed was sown first, and the weeds have choked it, but let both grow together until the harvest. The good seed does not come later, but came first. Jesus spoke to them in his day, and his apostles spread his word, but now we have his Word in print, and God said his word is as pure as silver tried in the fire 7 times. His Word can be trusted that he delivered it to us pure, no matter how much the enemy tries to take that away. Now I don't want to get into a translation debate, so I have to prove to Marilyn why the saints rule here on earth and not in heaven for a thousand years, and my one piece of proof given which is so straight forward and clear has not been accepted due to a translation issue. So I have to find another way to prove, and that will be with reason and scriptures. What are your thoughts on the issue, without us getting sidetracked?

Hi Marilyn Thanks Sister 1. Our calling is heavenly, not of this earth, but from above. God is not calling us to come up to heaven, but to change our spirit within, and to make it holy like he is. He is calling us to seek him, find truth, change, and know him. That's what the heavenly calling is about, replacing the spirit of man, with the spirit of God, exercising righteousness, and holiness. The rewards come later. We don't do it for the rewards, but because we are in agreeance with his ways, and have learn't what the consequenses of sin is. To have our eyes opened to all that is going on and why and to know love, for God is love. 2. Our hope is in him of course, not in material things, or anything that this world can offer. 3. Our inheritance is everlasting life. Inheriting all that belongs to God, the heavens and the earth. Being perfected, and having new spiritual bodies that will not get sick or die. Belonging to a place where truth and love exist, ...peace. 4. Our citizenship is heaven of course. ...but don't forget that after the 1000 years, God is going to melt the heavens and the earth, and replace it with a new one. This is because heaven has been contaminated (satan was there), and God's name has been blasphemed by men and angels. The heavens (universe) have been contaminated also, because man has worshiped the sun, stars, moon and believed in astrology etc, and I don't need to explain the earth with it's contaminations. All these are spiritual contaminations, or abominations. So keeping that in mind God will make all things new for us, and I was only thinking about this the other day - the resurrected saints have a thousand years to fulfill, then the final judgement. In this final judgement, the wicked will be destroyed forever, and the good who are written in the lambs book of life will be resurrected also. We now have all the newly resurrected saints standing with the saints before them who were raised 1000 years earlier - all together, assembled in one place, all in Christ presented to God, adorned like a bride. Magnificent. ....so at the end, all is cleaned up, the wicked destroyed, hell gone, and left standing only are all the saints that been purified, ..... but not all is really cleaned up, because a new heaven and a new earth is about to be created for habitation. The old one has to go. My question is, why would God let the saints 1000 years prior inherit something that has been contaminated, if it's not perfect and needed to be restored? Would the God of perfection give an imperfect inheritance to his perfected children, only to destroy it? It's just something I have been thinking about. To me that is possible, but not reasonable. The whole body of Christ, when completed and finalised will be given something new & undefiled all together at the same time. Their inheritance. Just thinkin.

Marilyn Now to address all your hard work first! Our calling is heavenly, because it's not of this world, but from God. Yes, this hope comes from God who is in heaven. Our hope is in heaven, not on this earth. . Again, it comes from God. Like Christ, we follow in his footsteps, we inherit everything. It's absolutely possible that we could all be taken up and rule from heaven over the earth, anything is possible, but, as I was trying to explain to you the purpose of the millennium, it's not reasonable that we be up there ruling, when there's a job to do down here. It's going to be so different Marilyn, not like now where we only believe through faith, never seeing Christ, nor talking to him face to face, and trying to convince others that he exists, for they will know for sure, when they see him coming in the clouds with his saints, all of them who were not accepted in the resurrection, can only be corrected through what they will actually see with their own eyes. They will be reproved, and will be the future witnesses of a new generation, and many more to come. They will know who is King of Kings, and every knee shall bow. They will be ashamed for their disbelief. Their teachers will not be pushed into a corner anymore, in other words, they will hear them, see them, talk with them, and that's our job. Real teachers. Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Obviously, they should not be worshiping us, but these of the synagogue of Satan, will see the saints, and fall down and tremble,.... just like when John bowed down to the angel, and the angel told him to get up and worship God. so the saints must be there, with full power and authority. because there's a job to be done with these new generations, and we will needed here for this task. I'm not sure what scripture you are speaking of, but I guess you are referring to the Israelites. They are not in the body of Christ now, but will be during the millennium. Each member will have a different purpose. Christ is the head, the saints part of the body, and now the Israelites will be drafted in, and their part is to be taught, and in turn teach the gentiles outside the camp. The body of Christ continues right up until the end of the millennium. They do not know Christ now, so it is a mystery to them still, yes. Please, if I have not made myself clear, nor provided enough proof so far, feel free to drill me. It keeps me on my toes! 1

` Hi Marilyn, Thanks for your reply. I do believe that God preserved his Word, and his Word can be trusted. Once we start getting into the technicalities of translations, with original greek words etc, then we start trusting in man for truth. Satan has not left one stone unturned. He has infiltrated the church with his ministers, and scribes who keep trying to "correct" the Word of God with endless new translations. You could fill up a whole bookcase with them! Don't fall for that Sister, God warned us that he would let the wheat grow with the tares until the harvest. The good seed was sown first, and the tares have choked it. May God guide you into trusting his preserved Word, because the world is getting more corrupt and evil than ever, not the other way around. We cannot trust anything the world gives us, but we can trust God that he delivered his Word to us pure, undefiled, exactly as he intended it to be read, with the men he chose, and not the men we chose.. And yes, you are right, we need to look at other scriptures pertaining to this topic, and it will become more clear. God bless you sister. 1

Hi Marilyn Greetings from down under! Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. There is so much in the bible revealed on what will happen during the millennium. The problem is it is scattered here and there throughout and all the scriptures concerning this would take pages and pages. I am not kidding! So where do I start to answer your question? Firstly, you are aware of the millennium to come, so I don't need to prove this to you. Secondly, in order to understand where the body of Christ will be, the purpose for the millennium has to be clear. Christ told us that at the end of the race we will inherit all that belongs to God. This includes the heavens and the earth. In the spirit we can go anywhere, up and down, but God has a plan to bring in future generations, and he will start with bringing Israel back to him. Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Jeremiah 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. Jeremiah 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. As we can see, this has not happened yet, Israel have not been taught the truth as a nation. They have not been taught Christ and do not acknowledge him. So Israel will be fed by shepherds. Notice is says the "remnant". This remnant will not be only of the last generation, but all generations. The shepherds will be the resurrected saints that were raised in the first resurrection. Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. I hope this one verse answers your question. We are not reigning now, so I think we can agree that this would be during the millennium, and is clear where the body of Christ will be. Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jeremiah 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; Jeremiah 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. This would be future, because Christ did not come the first time to judge, John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. When Christ executes judgement and justice in the earth, Israel will dwell safely. They will not be known as the people who were taken out of Egypt anymore, but the people, who were delivered from everywhere that they have been scattered, and shall be bought into their own land. Israel. God's mercy comes back to them. In order for Christ to do this he must set up a kingdom area (camp) where they can dwell. They will still be flesh and will multiply for a thousand years. Christ being their King, will communicate with them personally, where they can see him and touch him. He will comfort them and correct them. They will truly know love. Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. He will teach them pure truth, ....and all of them will be filled with the holy spirit. Not one will fall, because they are chosen according to the election to have this opportunity. Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. This is not to say that Christ cannot travel up and down to heaven, and the saints likewise. They will go where ever God sends them, but he doesn't need them in heaven for the time being because he has not finished with the people on this earth, and God needs us here for their benefit. We have a job to do alongside with Christ. So the camp of the saints is a physical place, where Christ and the saints rule over the flesh. Everything will be in order, and because the Israelites will multiply as the sand of the sea again (1000 years is a long time) so order has to be given. Israel will be divided into sections. There will be 12 kings, so they must have 12 mini kingdoms within those boundaries. I'd say the kings would be the 12 apostles. We have 24 elders (I'm not sure if the 12 apostles are part of this number), and then we have the 144,000 firstfruits (special elect), these will be given ranks, so there is order, ...and we also have the rest of the saints who were resurrected. Each will have there own duties and will be very busy. They will be the shepherds to Israel. Ezekiel 36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. So Israel will be taught not by man, but by Christ and his resurrected saints, and in turn Israel will teach the nations existing outside the kingdom area who will also be multiplying for the thousand years. This happens because mercy will be turned back to them, and God will keep his promise to them. God is reshaping them so that they can take part in the 2nd resurrection, and not only that, God has plans for future generations of the gentiles to know him also. His name will be glorified through Israel once again, and this time they will do it right, because the veil is taken off. Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. I find this verse interestingly worded. Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S. The saviours would be the shepherds, teaching them truth.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Hi Marilyn. Interesting topic. One I am most passionate about. I've enjoyed reading this discussion. I've given all these scriptures because they are speaking of the same thing. In Isaiah, God is speaking. The earth is God's footstool because the world is under him, in his hands. He created all, because the next verse says this. Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. I hope we can agree here that the verse is not depicting God being higher up than earth, in heaven, but the main focal point is that all is in his hands. Now the other passages are speaking of Jesus. God is telling Jesus to sit on his right hand until he makes his enemies his footstool. The verse is now clarified. So if Jesus sits next to God only until his enemies are put under him (which will happen at his coming), then I can see clearly that this suggests Christ will rule elsewhere after this is fulfilled. This would be earth during the millennium. Not enough proof yet, yes I know, but something to ponder on for now what do you think?

Thank you Oakwood, I thoroughly enjoyed that video.

Justfaith It's hard for us to picture, but heaven is a spiritual place and everything in heaven consists of the spiritual and not made of the material as we have in our world. Even God's throne is not made of a physical material, but is made out of spiritual material. Everything is spirit in God's world, which is in the heavenly realm.. Ezekiels vision of God sitting on his throne shows us that the throne sits on a chariot, and the wheels are made up of spirit - cheribums. These four go whereever the spirit of God goes. These spiritual creatures travel everywhere with God. I don't think you can get much closer than that when it comes to the angels, being part of the throne. The four beasts in Revelations have similar descriptions, only they have 6 wings, and one face each with eyes all around. These four are around the throne, and not part of the throne. These four beasts are seraphims. Isaiah 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. I'm not sure here if it's their own face and feet they are covering, or God's? I think if we go to all the other scriptures scattered throughout concerning these different type of angels, we will get a much clearer picture. Which is something that I look forward to doing within the next few days,because it gives us such an amazing glimpse. Hi Sister, I agree that the seraphims and cherabims are two different classes of beings, as their attributes are not the same. Concerning whose feet and face they are covering...well concerning that vision Ezekiel was given, id say they were covering Gods face and feet.... FOR...NO MAN has seen Gods face at any time.... If they weren't covering Gods face, then Ezekiel would have seen his face...and then promptly dropped dead.... God bless. Hi Serving Thanks for clearing that up because what you said makes absolute sense! No man can see the face of God and live. Can you tell me in your opinion who you think is higher ranked between the cherubs and seraphims? and also do you agree that God's throne is a chariot made up of spiritual creatures that take him everywhere? Also, I am wondering if you can answer this? What is the connection between the cherubs being part of God's chariot, and the 2 cherubs that guard the mercy seat, and the cherubs that were guarding the tree of life. I am trying to make the connection. Maybe you have better insight. Thanks brother. And when you have finished answering that I have another question for you lol! Just in case I forget the question in my head right now, I'll ask you now for later. If Lucifer was God's covering angel, and travelled everywhere with God, then how could he leave to come down to earth?

Judas Machabeus Here is a scripture that might help put it into perspective a bit more. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. We have to be spirit to inherit the kingdom of God, after the change which happens at the resurrection.of the saints at Christ's coming. No flesh and blood can inherit. If one remains flesh and blood at the coming, then he has not been accepted.into the kingdom. We have to be Born again. Born of the Spirit. changed first. then we enter. Heaven does not cater for fleshly creatures, but for spiritual only,

Judas Machabeus Born of water is being born out of your mothers womb. This is how we come into the world. (Born the first time). Born of the spirit is when we are resurrected or quickened at the coming. (Born again) Given a new spiritual body. Unless we are in that resurrection, we cannot enter the kingdom of God. It has nothing to do with Water Baptism. The renewal of the spirit is just putting on the new man, cleaning out our temples and making it holy. This has to be a requirement and there are other scriptures explaining this. But Jesus was speaking much deeper here. We have to be physically changed to spirit to receive our inheritance.

Justfaith It's hard for us to picture, but heaven is a spiritual place and everything in heaven consists of the spiritual and not made of the material as we have in our world. Even God's throne is not made of a physical material, but is made out of spiritual material. Everything is spirit in God's world, which is in the heavenly realm.. Ezekiels vision of God sitting on his throne shows us that the throne sits on a chariot, and the wheels are made up of spirit - cheribums. These four go whereever the spirit of God goes. These spiritual creatures travel everywhere with God. I don't think you can get much closer than that when it comes to the angels, being part of the throne. The four beasts in Revelations have similar descriptions, only they have 6 wings, and one face each with eyes all around. These four are around the throne, and not part of the throne. These four beasts are seraphims. Isaiah 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. I'm not sure here if it's their own face and feet they are covering, or God's? I think if we go to all the other scriptures scattered throughout concerning these different type of angels, we will get a much clearer picture. Which is something that I look forward to doing within the next few days,because it gives us such an amazing glimpse.

Hi Justfaith Lucifer was a cherub, a covering angel. I don't know what he would look like now since kicked out of heaven, I imagine the same, but what's inside him has turned ugly....and these scriptures show us how highly he was ranked before he fell. Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set theeso: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. If Lucifer was a covering angel, and the cherubs are part of God' throne, then it explains why Lucifer was created full of wisdom. He was there with God and went everywhere with him. Now he is the most detestable creature in God's eyes. He used all that wisdom to turn men away from God.

Achildofisrael If I give a little background first, it's easier to explain for me. If you are interested in the Christian church history which started in Israel, it all began with Christ preaching to the Jews first. Christ chose his 12 apostles, whom he would teach, yet they did not fully understand the things he was teaching because the holy spirit would not come until after Christ's death, but this they believed, that Christ was the son of God, and sent to Israel so that they can be reconciled back to God. As Christ was teaching them, they would learn first hand what following Christ really involved. They declared Christ with boldness, and they would be first ones to witness and experience rejection, stirred up by the Jewish elders, as Christ's fame spread throughout Israel. So whilst they were with Christ, they were learning, but the holy spirit would not come until Christ's death. Christ warned them that they would be scattered after his death. Soon after Christ's death, the holy spirit came to them, giving them full understanding,so they could now go and preach with full confidence, giving the full testimony of Christ, in which he was killed and risen on the third day, therefore claiming victory over death. This gave the message of salvation even more substance, as those who seek to attain salvation would follow in Christ's footsteps. (conquer death) ...but because of persecutions, The apostles and their disciples had to meet in secret, and the church was made up simply of Christ's followers who met in houses, and not church buildings. As persecutions continued, many fled Israel and went to Syria (Antioch), and to Asia Minor. The churches were not great buildings, but gatherings with freedom from persecutions. So the saints had scattered out of Jerusalem and Israel, well before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70Ad, and scattered mainly after Christ's death when he was made an example of. After Christ's death, the spirit of anti-christ came, which mean't strangers had come into the Lords house sowing lies amongst the truth. All the letters to the churches sent by the apostles, mainly Paul and Peter, would expose the works of the devil and give christians their "spiritual tools" (instructions) on how to discern and what to watch out for. So these tools were "knowledge" (guidelines) So the early churches were made up "christians" and no particular religion. The 7 churches which were in Asia minor (turkey) were warned by Christ through John, that the enemy had already come in, contaminating the word of God, and sending believers astray to commit abominations. The gospel back then was only spread through word of mouth to the gentiles, and not until the early 1600's when the King James bible became available to men in print, that the many christian religions, each with slightly different doctrines would later emerge on a grand scale in the 50's and 60's. Before the KJV, we had the Roman Catholic religion, I think it was in the 1400's, when they emerged and began their crusades. They took christianity by force, and decided to be the mediators between men and God, but it was more of a control thing, than a spiritual one. They had their translation of the holy bible in latin. This was not available to anyone but the priest, therefore the Word of God was hidden from the people, as all sermons were preached in latin, profiting no-one. It was a religion that would later be exposed as not being according to the truth, and only having part truths in there, but nevertheless, the name of Christ was being spread throughout the roman empire, and everyone got to hear and know his name. I will leave it there for now, and we can continue later, if you would like to.

Amen Onelight The christian family now, gets a glimpse of how the christian family back then operated. Their words of encouragement should apply to us today also. Philemon 1:17 If thou count me therefore a partner, receive him as myself. Philemon 1:18 If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account; Philemon 1:19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides. Who does this? pays another's debts? What an inspiration! What love this displays amongst the brethren! Have we been turning our backs on our brothers in need? Always something to learn. Philemon 1:21 Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.

Stormcrow How long does a man live for? Our lives are just a puff of smoke - 70 years, 80, maybe 100, and some die very young. Once we are dead, everything goes to the grave with us. Our time is always at hand, for every generation, because we don't live for that long - for all go to the grave at the end of their short life, and once in the grave, we cannot change the state of our souls. And what's the next stage after death? John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. The dead know nothing. When they are woken up to be judged, whether in the first resurrection, or the second, this prophecy "the end of all things is near, or at hand," will be fulfilled for that soul. And if you want to view it your way brother, then "the end of the world" did not come to all of them, because the christians fled Jerusalem, after Christ's death, and scattered to Syria, Greece, Asia Minor etc. They did not get killed in 70AD. So the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, was not the end of the world, and the saints would of died never hearing of it....only hearing of the destruction of Jerusalem. Big difference. Even John, the youngest apostle was on an island in Patmos around 70AD.

Yes, the seraphim have six wings, and the cherubim have four wings. The description of Ezekiel 1 seems to be the same as in Ezekiel 10 which are called cherubim. Ezekiel 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle. Ezekiel 10:15 And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar. Ezekiel 10:16 And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them. Ezekiel 10:17 When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them. Ezekiel 10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims. Ezekiel 1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. Ezekiel 1:7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. Ezekiel 1:8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. Ezekiel 1:9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. Ezekiel 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Ezekiel 1:11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.

Stormcrow. This is how the gospel was spread. To those early churches first,.... which kept record of Paul's letters, .....and preserved them for us today. Everyone in Christ must suffer. If we are not suffering in one form or another, then we should check our salvation. Are you not different from the world? Does your family or friends treat you different because you dislike certain things they do... that go against the scriptures? Do people knock you for your belief? Call you names behind your back? Mock you? Make fun of you, or your God? Do you stay home on new years eve, when everybody is partying and getting drunk? Or have they stopped inviting you to their parties? Do you say no to things your flesh desires? Do you thirst for justice? Does your soul sorrow because you see so much pain around, or is everything just hunky dory, going wonderful for you? He was writing to us, the believers. Nothing has changed. We all have once common enemy. We will find out what real suffering is when the time is appointed, and these afflictions we endure now will seem like a walk in the park. Every single word spoken in this book and all the others, is the spirit speaking to all of us, ....the Word of Life.

Stormcrow Yes, but do you think that the religious leaders who Jesus spoke of, ... who were antichrist by the way, do not exist today? Are there not scribes today, rewriting the word of God?, re-translating God's word over and over, corrupting, leaving out verses, changing words to cause disputes over doctrine? Are there not scribes today writing their own books? Those scriptures were for them back then, and for us today also. For every generation, that is hungry for truth will get something out of these scriptures that reflects on what is happening, no matter what time frame they are living in. Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Yes that happened in 70AD, and he was speaking to them, but if you read on, he is speaking to us now. Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (not the end of the age) Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (White horse - rev 6:2) Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Red horse - rev 6:4) Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. (Black horse - rev 6:5-7) Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (now the false prophet will come, the pale horse. Christianity wiped out on a global scale) Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (happened to them then, and will happen to us also) Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (happened to them, and will happen again) Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (false prophets, plural. what's a false prophet? Someone claiming to be holy, bringing in a new doctrine, maybe he heals, or speaks tongues, or falsely prophesises. Someone imitating a man of God) Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (evil has to reach it's peak. It has to grow to the max, before it's cut down. The days are more evil now, then then) Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (speaking to all generations. endure to the end of your life) Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (the gospel was not preached through-out the world back then. Notice it says "Gospel", does not mean "the truth" but the name of Jesus Christ has spread, and what he did, people are still hearing of him for the first time, in all corners of the earth, young people included, they must get a chance.) Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) (not happened yet. Not for them) So these scriptures apply to both generations, but mostly for us now, because the end of the world did not happen for them, just the end of Jerusalem, destroyed by the Romans, and not destroyed because of nations turning against nations. You are wrong brother. The gospel had a long way to go before it reached the whole world. It is still reaching. It wasn't until the 1600's that the bible became available to anyone who wanted to read it, without being persecuted, in most parts, for it was published in one book having all the scrolls contained in one, and has really spread since then.

Just faith Ezekiel got a glimpse of God's actual throne. It's a chariot with wheels, and these unusual looking heavenly spirit creatures travel with him wherever he goes. They are called cherubims

seemspeculiar Genesis 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: God did not tempt Abraham to do anything evil, but to obey his voice. To obey whatever God commands, is counted for righteousness. Trusting him, that he knows what he's doing, even if we don't. And although Abraham was confused by his assignment, he trusted God and obeyed. It shows us how much Abraham trusted God, and how far he was willing to go for him. Now is sacrificing your own son considered evil? God did it didn't he? Was that evil? However, God had no intentions of Abraham killing his son, because we know how the story ends. It was just a test. God knew that Abraham would obey, before he even asked him, for God is "all knowing" so the lesson is for us, to trust God in everything he says, he knows the reason behind it, when sometimes we don't. And by the way God has never commanded any of us to sacrifice our sons. To do so would be evil. When God offered his own son, it was a pure, clean sacrifice, unblemished. No sacrifice could ever compare. This is the real message, to trust in whatever God commands, because unlike us, he is all knowing.

Look who it's talking about in the verse before; Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:(he was preaching the covenant for 3 1/2 years, confirming it over and over) The He is still speaking about the Messiah. The one that was cut off. Who else is going to confirm the covenant? The new covenant, Not the old? After all that's what it was all about - A new covenant coming in which they rejected. The false prophet? I think not. It's not referring to the false prophet but referring to Christ the Messiah, this is where you go off track. You are gettng the "He" mixed up, therefore interpreting the prophecy wrong. Daniel 9:27......and in the midst of the week (during the same time of his preaching) ........he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,(at his death, no more sacrifices required, he was the official sacrificed lamb, replacing all offerings. This is not the daily sacrifice.) ..........and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, (because of their abominations,..all the things they have done against God,..their ignorance, their jealousy, their pride, their lies, and finally their act of killing him ..God will make them desolate, not the false prophet, God will shut their eyes and put them into spiritual darkness, to be deluded, all the unbelieving ones. ............even until the consummation, (even until the end when Christ is crowned King of Kings, and Lord of Lords publicly to the non believers, who never knew, they will be without knowledge, not knowing their Messiah came and went) ..............and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (it was determined, planned that he would be rejected, Christ is their stumbling block, and them not accepting this are the desolate, unbelievers of Israel) Brother, I hope you can see this with fresh eyes. If not ,we just have to agree to disagree on another matter once again. I've done my best to lay it all out on the table. This particular prophecy is not going into the details of the false prophet, or daily sacrifice being taken away, or the abomination of desolation being set up. We all know those things will happen for sure. It's just a prophecy for them back then, that the temple will be rebuilt, Jerusalem restored, the Messiah coming, and then being cut off from them (they would not of understood), Jerusalem being destroyed again, temple gone again, All in this time-frame of 70 weeks, from the rule of Darius the Mede to 70AD,....not 700 weeks or 7000 weeks, and from this time of what they did, and what happened, spiritual darkness to the end.

Salty First of all, where do you get 7 years = 1 week? And where did I state that? No where in these verses tells us that one week = 7 years? Please refute what I said, and not what I did not say. I said he confirmed the new covenant with his teachings for 3 1/2 years during his ministry. I did not say 7yrs. Secondly, Those who repented, and followed Christ before his death, will receive the promises. The rest of the gentiles after his death, for his testimony was complete at his death, but not the prophecy. The prophecy ends at 70 weeks, not 62, and ends with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, This is the end of Jerusalem. End of prophecy. Jerusalem Destroyed. The flood came and swept them away. .......and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And as a consequence, desolations are determined. More desolations getting worse and worse. Can you give me your verses so I can see what it reads. Thanks.

Salty If you read my post, you did not understand it. 70 weeks were determined from the day the angel spoke to Daniel. The temple was not ordered to be rebuilt that day by Cyrus, because time went by before he gave the order and even financed it. So after the one week passed, there are only 69 weeks left. The final week is really the 70th week. There's a whole new doctrine being spread about this 70th week, and it was already fulfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. This is strange wine that many are drinking. There are hundreds of verses all throughout the old testament referring to the last days, to verify the things that are coming, and this missing week has started a new doctrine, all because you can't work out where the missing week is, even when pointed out to you. God wrote it the way he did, and hid it. It's a hidden treasure, and when shared, trampled.

Fez, I am happy to do that, but I cannot answer the way you want me to do. I do not have 20 scriptures before and after, and can only give the scriptures we have. I have given scriptures in Genesis and explained them. What do you want proof of? Who these sons of God are? Why Satan did not go into the women himself? or the whole lot? Lets start here again Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. Already we see here that this took part in the early days after men started multiplying. The sons of God took wives, and God was not happy? Why not? Are not men supposed to take wives, marry and multiply? Sons of God Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself fore the Lord. Job 2:2 And the Lord saint unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down it. Job 2:3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth. I'm showing you here to start with who the sons of God are, ...angels. There was never a meeting between God and men, so this meeting is in heaven with the angels before they were kicked out, and Satan was there also. God is calling the angels his sons, because he created them. Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; Giants in the earth in those days? We have dinosaur bones to prove they once existed. One thing they know for sure is that they were all wiped out at once, during the same time. Noah's job was to preserve all the species of animals God created, .....and there were no baby dinosaurs saved. Why? because God did not create them. Satan with all his wisdom already knew about cloning, long before we did. He was only using God's technology, not his own, and manipulating God's creation. Satan was trying to be God, creating his own species of animals. So for a short time, dinosaurs existed ....GIANTS. Genesis 6:4 and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. After the giants existed, after...after...after, .....then these sons of God had sex with human females, daughters of men (not daughters of god), and they produced children to these angels. These children became mighty men, men which were of old? what men of the old days were mighty? None recorded. If they were created by angels, then would have half of their characteristics, and their evil nature. We have found bones of giant men. Abnormal bones, and the truth is they once existed, and I will have to give you scriptures on another post to prove this. So what I am showing you here, is that Satan who is behind it all, of course, who wants to be God starting his own creation, began creating his own special breed of animals first,... then when he saw he wasn't stopped, started creating his own breed of humans. How angry he would of been to see his own creation destroyed in the flood. Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The angels were given free reign. They crossed the boundaries. They contaminated God's creation, animals and men. They were mingling with men. They are intelligent creatures, and corrupting men. They are different flesh, and cannot mix the two. From them, evil had spread fast, and God had to destroy all, and punish those angels for doing what they did. So God put them, those particular angels into a spiritual prison where they cannot mingle with man anymore. They are locked up to this day, not killed, but reserved...... 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; These angels who are locked up, will be let loose during the 7 trumpets. This is what they are reserved for, to be let loose during the wrath, to torment those who have the mark of the beast. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their "first estate", but left left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day. Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The angels first estate is heaven. They left that estate to come here and corrupt men. Satan is the chief. He led them here to do what they did. If he had done it himself, he would be locked up like them, but he is too smart for that, but not innocent. After Jesus rose from the dead, he went and preached to these spirits in prison. Don't forget these angels were deceived by Lucifer. Jesus did not go there to get them to repent, but show his authority, and convict them. We don't know what the conversation was, but they committed blasphemy of the holy spirit. A sin unforgivable. 1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, 1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few,that is eight souls were saved by water. These are those angels from back then before the flood. We have millions, maybe billions of fallen angels living amongst us on this earth. This is their playground, but those ones who are in prison are not free to roam. They will be released for a short while. Maybe Christ was telling them this, giving instructions on what they can do or not do. Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the the smoke of the pit. Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This is where they come out, when released, all except four of them. and here next; Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. I will leave it as this for now, tell me what other proof you need, and please be specific to make it easier for me to provide what scriptures you want.

You are very welcome! Thank you.