Defending the Name

I see you refuse to see the OT Scriptures as they are actually written, about TWO advents of Messiah: 1st Coming: Zech.99 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 2nd Coming: Zech.910 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. Christ Jesus' first entry in Jerusalem was "lowly", riding upon an ass, to be crucified. For His second coming He rides upon a white horse to take power over all the earth. THIS IS BIBLE 101. If you don't understand that, then everything you read in Scripture is going to be off kilter, and it shows in your words. So you are saying Zechariah 9.9 is first coming and Zechariah 9:10 is second coming. So there is only one verse that separates the first and the second coming? Come on really! You can't pretend to speak on behalf of the Jews of that time, if they saw it as one coming and they were the original authors of this testimony, how is it that you are declaring that you know what they did not know at that time? You are looking at things from a perspective of a child by thinking only in concrete terms within the limitations of the physical realm and you show that you really don't understand that the language of that day is poetic. The poetic language paints a spiritual picture that has a totally different meaning to what is in the natural realm and I will prove it to you. Why don't you quote that extra verse at the end of Zechariah 9:10, like so: Zechariah 9:9-11 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. Step one: Jesus comes riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass. Step two: Jesus will speak peace not war unto the heathen (unbelieving) Gentiles of the world. Step three: Jesus will have a dominion from sea (nation) to sea (nation) of all the world. Step four: Jesus will do this by the blood covenant. You simply left out the means by which step one to step three will be achieved, because the context on how this will be achieved is in Zechariah 9:11, whereby The Lord will accomplish this magnificent feet by the atoning for the sins of the world, once and for all. Notice I said once, meaning once, right? Yes right only once. Jesus came and conquered and redeemed men onto him through the blood covenant, for this is the means by which the everlasting gospel of peace went out even onto the unbelieving gentile nations of the world for the redemption of sins. He did not do this by war as you are implying, by collapsing the context of the two versus. This has nothing what so ever to do with a second coming. Please don't go changing the subject on me now, since you opened this one up, stay within the context of Zechariah 9:9-11 and don't go looking for versus else where. I see you refuse to see the OT Scriptures as they are actually written, about TWO advents of Messiah: 1st Coming: Zech.99 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 2nd Coming: Zech.910 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. Christ Jesus' first entry in Jerusalem was "lowly", riding upon an ass, to be crucified. For His second coming He rides upon a white horse to take power over all the earth. THIS IS BIBLE 101. If you don't understand that, then everything you read in Scripture is going to be off kilter, and it shows in your words. So you are saying Zechariah 9.9 is first coming and Zechariah 9:10 is second coming. So there is only one verse that separates the first and the second coming? Come on really! I see that you have missed Bible 101. It shows too... Isaiah 61 1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; The part above in blue was for Christ's 1st coming. The part in red has not happened yet today, it is for Christ's 2nd coming. Notice how that 2nd coming part in red is only separated with a comma in that 2nd verse. This is how timelines are sometimes given within God's Holy Writ, meaning one must PAY ATTENTION to what they are reading, and not be lazy, but consider all of what is being said carefully. When our Lord Jesus came the 1st time, He came meek as a Lamb, to be slain. But when He returns the 2nd time, He will be coming with a sword, to make war upon His enemies on earth, and then reign over them with a rod of iron, meaning He is not coming meek as a Lamb the 2nd time. As I anticipated you jumped from Zechariah 9:9-10 to Isaiah 61. Collapsing the context is when a person tries to interpret the meaning of scripture through several fragmented and none related verses to try and get the bible versus say something that they clearly don't say. You can't do that friend. You are now jumping from Zechariah to Isaiah when you choose not to address the Zechariah versus that you introduced to support your claim. When these versus no longer worked for you along the lines of your interpretation, you then reverted to other none related versus in Isaiah 61 as I anticipated. This is scriptural gymnastics, I believe you are going to do it again if I interpret also the Isaiah 61 versus for you. But let us try that experiment as well to prove my claim. The Isaiah 61:3 below are the Old Covenant Jews who used to be the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held (Rev. 6:9). And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1). These are the first fruits of the great harvest of God when Christ raised them up (Matthew 27:52-53) in fulfilment of Ezekiel 37:11-14 and gave them gifts (Ephesians 4:8). You can plainly see that their ashes which symbolises remembrance of those who have died are given beauty, which is why Rev. 6:9 declares that they are given beautiful and clean white robes of angels in Rev. 6:9-11. Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. Most of the versus in Isaiah 61 is poetry and if you cant realise that, then you miss the point of what Isaiah is trying to portray. Look at the next verse: Isaiah 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. The versus below identifies the 144,000 old covenant first fruits of the harvest of God singing the song of Moses that no man can sing, after being raised from the dead. They respond to the Christ saying that by your blood you have even redeemed the Gentiles and have made us (144,000) as kings and priests. This is the boasting that the old covenant fruits declared in fulfilment of Isaiah 61:6. These redeemed are the many voices of the now angels around the throne of Christ. Revelation 5:9-11 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Those who are redeemed from amongst men enter in through the resurrection the dead and are made priests of God and of Christ. Notice there are two groups here, the Old Covenant who ministered for the Word of God and the New Covenant who ministered for the Christ. Rev. 20:4 I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (New Covenant) and for the word of God (Old Covenant). Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. It becomes clear that the Isaiah versus below have both the Old Covenant redeemed being joined by the New Covenant (Gentiles) redeemed who also alongside the first fruits (144,000) also inherit their own land in double and have everlasting joy, which means eternal life with Christ. Isaiah 61:3 to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning is the same as Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Isaiah 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. So Isaiah 61 is talking of the everlasting covenant that also went out to the gentile nations of the world and is in context to the raising up of the house of Jacob who are the Old Testament first fruits (144,000) along with the many gentile nations who also flock to heavenly New Jerusalem to inherit their double portion also. The Isaiah versus below provide the context of all of Isaiah 61, that is all about the resurrection of the dead when Christ brings salvation to first the old covenant Jew who were waiting in Abraham's Bosom to be given the whit angelic garments of salvation (salvage). This is the white angelic robes that were initially given to the Old Covenant bride who were asleep in their lot and waiting for the Messiah's (bridegroom) first hand only advent to raise them up from the dead. Notice the 144,000 who were crying under the altar of God were given these white garments in Rev. 6:9-11 and the remaining gentile nations also inherited these white garments, which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb Rev. 7:14. Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. How you interpreted Isaiah 61: 1-2 as first and second coming is totally unfounded within the context of all of Isaiah 61 that is actually poetically conveying that the departed house of Israel will receive their eternal inheritance as the first fruits of the harvest of God and will be followed by their new covenant gentile brothers and sisters as was told to them in Rev. 6:11, that they should be patient for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. So first all the harvest must be reaped by God who have their names in the book of life, before God unleashes his vengeance upon the remaining inhabitants of earth. The complete context of Isaiah 61 is the reaping of the great harvest of God into his heavenly barn. The verse below is exactly the same as Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Isaiah 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations. Do not collapse the context by using multiple unrelated versus in a fragmented way to support your theories. Bible interpreters itself in context and you do not need to jump from one verse to another to prove your point. What will happen is what I have shown you to happen and every time you repeat it, you will face the same dilemma.

One more important thing that I left out is the term "daily sacrifice". This term is the atoning works on the cross at Calvary for the forgiveness of sins once and for all. For a Christian the daily sacrifice for the sins we commit on a daily basis is what was posted on the cross at Calvary. The question that arises is what initiates the removal of what today Christians would consider unthinkable? The only way that Christ's redemptive work on the cross at calvary can be removed or let us say no longer considered by believers, is if there is a manifested messiah on earth. Now according to Daniel this manifested messiah is the man of sin who is labeled the abomination that maketh desolate. In simple words he is the object of worship that brings destruction to those who worship him. Part of the strong delusion is to believe the lie, which is to believe that this person is actually the returned messiah. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. In the Thessalonians versus above it is clear that those who succumb to the strong delusion are in fact believers, who received not the love of truth, who is The Lord himself, but replaced him with the lie, who is the Man of Sin pretending to be the earthly messiah. In this case they fall out of favour with God and are condemned to eternal destruction / desolation. This is why the man of sin is called the abomination that maketh desolate (destruction). The reason why the true messiah will not return in a manifested earthly form for people to behold by sight, is because that would remove the daily sacrifice. Think about it about, why would the atoning works on the cross at Calvary be important if The Lord himself is now present with the world. The world needs to only believe him by sight and that will account to them for righteousness. However what did Jesus say? John 14 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. Listen to me brothers and sisters, there will be no literal second coming of Christ because Jesus said the world will never see me again and further more The Lord is with us in a Spirit because he said that he will not leave us as orphans, but will come to us and make his dwelling with us, within the context of the Holy Ghost who was given on Pentecost. John 14 is entirely in context to the Holy Ghost being given on Pentecost. The world cannot see the Spirit of truth, yet Jesus said: “If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I know I have touched on a sensitive issue but please listen The Lord said the Spirit of truth is here to stay with the believer in place of his resurrected appearance form and this Spirit cannot be removed, therefore it negates any literal earthly second coming of messiah in a manifested form. Jesus said that he will manifest himself onto the believer within the context of the Holy Ghost. If there is a manifested earthly messiah in a form other than the Holy Spirit that has been given to the believer to stay with them for good, and if a believer falls for the strong delusion and believes the lie who is the manifested devil pretending to be Christ then that believer is damned forever. Jesus said in John 14 towards the end of the chapter, that the prince of this world who is Satan is coming to deceive many and that Jesus has nothing to do with him or his earthly dominion. Stop and think for a moment, if a manifested messiah in visible form is believed and worshipped, then that removes two things from the ONCE believer and they are: 1) The Holy Ghost 2) The daily sacrifice which is the atoning works of Christ on the cross at Calvary for the forgiveness of sins once and for all. There is no earthly second coming of Christ, it is a false doctrine people, please do not fall for this lie. We are expecting the devil to manifest in this earthly realm. In order for us to be reunited with The Lord, we must first die, then be judged by him to be counted as worthy and numbered amongst his sheep within his heavenly barn. This is a warning people for Christ sake heed the warning and warn others so that their blood is not on your hands, for I am your friend. The time is truly at hand and his false prophet the symbol of the black dragon (apostasy) is in the world and is preparing the way for his master the beast of the bottomless Pitt, who is also know as lucifer. Bringing together the world religions is his master piece that needs to be achieved before his master comes in pomp and ceremony according to the false second coming doctrine that so many Christians have taken on face value without scrutinising it to what implication a literal manifested coming of Christ has and why the real messiah can never come and that it is us who are being called out of this earthly life to the eternal life to be reunited with the risen lord, from death and onto resurrection to be counted as one of the many hosts of heaven (white cloud) that he sits on. The risen lord doesn't come to us, but rather we are being drawn to him as he stated: John 12:32 And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."

All these fabulous discussion proves that Daniel 2:44 happened during the time of these earthly kings. So the eternal millennium and the resurrection of the dead commenced in the first century. Revelation 14:13-14 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. The angelic white cloud that Christ rides with are all those who have passed from life in the earthly body to life in the eternal angelic bodies. All of Daniel has been fulfilled where many have been sanctified by the Holy Ghost and made white by being resurrected (Romans 8:11). The reaping from the great harvest of God has been happening from when the Christ opened the graves of the Old Testament saints (Matthew 27:52-53) and took them into their promised land heavenly new Jerusalem and gave them gifts (Ephesians 4:8). Revelation 14:15 is the call of urgency to start reaping from the harvest when the Holy Ghost declared Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth. Daniel 12:10-12 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The only prophesy that is yet to be fulfilled is the coming of the prince of this world, Satan who is also known as the beast of the bottomless Pitt and who is the eighth king and also the seventh in line. These numbers have spiritual meanings , because eight represents rebirth. This means the devil when being released from his bottomless Pitt (Isaiah 14:15), is going to be incarnated into the world as the man of sin. Remember when the Holy Ghost took on the form of his servants as the man Jesus of Nazareth, who is the Son of Man, the devil will replicate this coming and be incarnated as the Man of Sin. Jesus clearly stated that the prince of this world is coming. The prince of this world is the abomination that maketh desolate, for he is the man of sin. John 14:30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, Jesus is prophesying here in regards to the coming of satan as the man of sin. In Daniel 12:10-12 the man of sin comes after a symbolic time period of 1290 days. Now this means that he comes after the martyrdom of the true witnesses of christ who represent the two witnesses in John's Revelation. Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. So the faithful who hold the testimony of Jesus will preach the everlasting gospel to the world for the symbolic time period of 1260 days and 30 days lager they have been martyred the man of sin is revealed. So the Holy Spirit church is removed before the man of sin comes in pomp and ceremony unopposed. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I see you refuse to see the OT Scriptures as they are actually written, about TWO advents of Messiah: 1st Coming: Zech.9 9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 2nd Coming: Zech.9 10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. Christ Jesus' first entry in Jerusalem was "lowly", riding upon an ass, to be crucified. For His second coming He rides upon a white horse to take power over all the earth. THIS IS BIBLE 101. If you don't understand that, then everything you read in Scripture is going to be off kilter, and it shows in your words. So you are saying Zechariah 9.9 is first coming and Zechariah 9:10 is second coming. So there is only one verse that separates the first and the second coming? Come on really! You can't pretend to speak on behalf of the Jews of that time, if they saw it as one coming and they were the original authors of this testimony, how is it that you are declaring that you know what they did not know at that time? You are looking at things from a perspective of a child by thinking only in concrete terms within the limitations of the physical realm and you show that you really don't understand that the language of that day is poetic. The poetic language paints a spiritual picture that has a totally different meaning to what is in the natural realm and I will prove it to you. Why don't you quote that extra verse at the end of Zechariah 9:10, like so: Zechariah 9:9-11 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. Step one: Jesus comes riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass. Step two: Jesus will speak peace not war unto the heathen (unbelieving) Gentiles of the world. Step three: Jesus will have a dominion from sea (nation) to sea (nation) of all the world. Step four: Jesus will do this by the blood covenant. You simply left out the means by which step one to step three will be achieved, because the context on how this will be achieved is in Zechariah 9:11, whereby The Lord will accomplish this magnificent feet by the atoning for the sins of the world, once and for all. Notice I said once, meaning once, right? Yes right only once. Jesus came and conquered and redeemed men onto him through the blood covenant, for this is the means by which the everlasting gospel of peace went out even onto the unbelieving gentile nations of the world for the redemption of sins. He did not do this by war as you are implying, by collapsing the context of the two versus. This has nothing what so ever to do with a second coming. Please don't go changing the subject on me now, since you opened this one up, stay within the context of Zechariah 9:9-11 and don't go looking for versus else where.

Joined to Christ in spirit and not by flesh. For The Lord said you in me and I in you in spiritual marriage, within the context of the Holy Ghost that was to be given on Pentecost. Romans 8:12-17 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Therefore in the new covenant age there is no flesh heirs with Christ, for all must come by the way of the Spirit of Christ otherwise they have no salvation.

The 144,000 are not the only ones to sing the new song. Remember these were the first to be redeemed from amongst men, meaning they were the first fruits reaped from the great harvest of God. What does that mean? They were raised from the dead. They sing a song that no man yet to be redeemed can sing because they have entered eternal life through the resurrection of the dead, which means they had initially died, therefore they can sing the blues so to speak because they have gone through the experience. The 144,000 are not the only ones who can sing the new song that no man can sing, so who is the second group along them that can sing that song? Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. There are two groups who sing the song that no man still living in the human body can sing. The first fruits from the harvest who were redeemed sing the SONG OF MOSES, this automatically identifies them as the 144,000 old covenant Jews who were the 12 tribes of the children of Israel mention in Rev. 7:5-9. The second group who sing the SONG OF THE LAMB are mentioned in: Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; The song of Moses identifies the first group as the old covenant Jews who were the first tonne redeemed from amongst men and those that song the song of the lamb are the many gentile nations to whom the gospel went out to and who made their robes white by the blood of the lamb of God. The above explanation is perfect exposure of the two groups that sing the song that no man can sing, whether it be the song of Moses or the song of the lamb.

Daniel is being told that Michael will stand up for the children of his people. Who is Daniel's people? Daniel's people are the old covenant Jews of his old covenant time, that he is personally associated with as a prophet. It makes no sense what so ever for Daniel to be told about Michael standing up for his people, if the term "his people" are unknown to Daniel. The future generations cannot be Daniel's people. If this is not the obvious, then read who are those who go through the Great Tribulation: Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. The people in the future who go through the great tribulation are said to have washed their robes by the blood of the lamb. So who is this group of people? Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; This group of people who go through the great tribulation are the Gentiles nations of the world who receive the gospel and accept it in order to have washed their robes by the blood of the lamb. Again who are Daniel's people? They are certainly not those who go through the great tribulation some thousands of years in the future. Daniel's people are the immediate old covenant Jews. Phew, now that we have passed this hurdle, we then can understand what this trouble is and what it meant to Daniel's people in the immediate near future concerning the coming of Christ whom the name Michael is used. "The verse about a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" It is clear now that this trouble is related to Daniel's people's trouble as a nation. Which nation? The Jewish nation that pertains to Daniel's people. This is Jacobs trouble that the comment is about. The events of 70AD can never be paralleled and this is what was being told to Daniel. That your nation Israel will face a trouble that it never faced before nor will it face afterwards as a nation. This trouble is unparalleled by any past or future nation that is earthly Israel. So Daniel was told that this trouble will come upon the Jewish nation. This was prophesied by Christ in regards to not one stone being left upon another, which is the destruction and mass slaughter of the Jewish people of the first century. This is Jacob's trouble that will not be paralleled to any event in past or the future. It is clear that the message is for that time back in 70AD where it all happened. Luke 21:20-22 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. So the redemption for the Jews still living in that time, happened during that period between Christ's resurrection and the fall of Jerusalem to the armies that encompassed it.

That's baloney, the Zechariah horsemen and four carpenters prophecy is especially about the end of this world. You fail to grasp that prophecy in most all of the Books of the OT prophets has both historical and future prophetic events mixed within them. So it's you and those like you on man's Preterist doctrines that are way behind the times, and will not understand the final events to consumate the end of this present world. It is not the end times that consummates marriage, it is the Holy Ghost who has been for the last almost 2000 years being consummating the bride as the many departed faithful are being sanctified and resurrected by him as testified in Romans 8:11. Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. It is the Holy Ghost who consummates a marriage and invites the faithful one by one after death to the wedding supper of the lamb of God. What has end time worldly games have to do with God, he cares nothing of the politics of this world and he said: John 14:30-31 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. Jesus has nothing to do with the prince of this world who is Satan and has nothing to do with Satan's earthly kingdoms. The Lord is concerned about drawing the faithful out of worldly mystery Babylon onto himself, in heaven after the faithful dies and and passes through the resurrection. John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Christians care about being faithful onto death, to be raised by the Holy Ghost on their last day in the body, so that they can be reunited with Christ who is in heaven.

Montana Marv Daniel 12:1-3 ​ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? The Son of Man is the Holy Angel who is the leader of all the hosts of heaven, the angelic white cloud that he rides with.

Salty your behind the eighth ball, the four horses of the apocalypse are during the old covenant age. First four seals identify the Old covenant age, then the fifth seal declare Christ as triumphant who then initiates the long awaited resurrection of the dead and commences his heavenly eternal reign with his old covenant bride and those new covenant who would follow after passing from the earthly life. The sixth and seventh seals are during the remainder of Daniel's 70th week where the beast of the bottomless Pitt emerges to destroy the seven hilled city, that symbolise the two witnesses who are everyone in the world who holds the testimony of Jesus. The book has seven seals and these seven seals must encompass the entire human history that is the Genesis one start and ending. Because the book of life or registry of the living is from the first Adam to the last Adams who will inhabit the heavenly realm with the Christ.

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted. The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised. The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies. The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age. Christ does not possess an angelic body. Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body. Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed. Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven. In Christ Montana Marv The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament. If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following: 1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection. Mark 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic. Dead wrong We will know Jesus Christ by the stripes on His Back and the nail prints on His hands and by the wound on His side. All physical signs from a human body. The Lamb who was slain. He was made a little lower than the angels, yet He arose to the highest position, seated at the right hand of God. And also saying I AM. I AM equal with God, for I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. No created angel can can receive this Glory. In Christ Montana Marv Who said that the Christ (Michael) who is the leader of all the angels is a created being? Scriptures did not say that and I certainly haven't said that, so where did you come up with this conclusion friend?

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted. The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised. The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies. The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age. hi any scriptures to support your view ? Here is a duplicate post I sent on another thread. I hope that the sequence of events in Revelation chapter 6 and 7 answer your questions friend. Revelation 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (These are the Old Covenant who were slain for the "Word of God", are called the "servants of our God", who sing the "song of Moses". They were told to be patient until also their new covenant brothers and sisters would also come to the same fate as they faced.) Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (This is prior to the judgement vials unleashed upon the inhabitants of earth. Note these are called the "servants of our God".) Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (This is the second group that follows the 144,000 old covenant Jews who were previously sealed for the resurrection when they were given white robes of angels. This second group are not declared as the "servants of our God", they are from peoples of all nations, meaning post old covenant age and are before the lamb.) Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Notice the angelic elder who is one of the 24 heavenly judges asks John who this second group is and where do they come from? John being a Jew new that the first group the 144,000 were already identified on who they were and where they came from, however this group was not identified and John didn't know the answer, so the elder had to tell him who they were. The fact that John was inquired about the second group and he didn't know who they were distinguishes them as a separate group to the 144,000 who were said to be all the tribes of the children of Israel. The second group washed their robes with the blood of the lamb of God and were said to have came out of the great tribulation. Notice the first group did not go through the great tribulation, therefore they came before the time of the lamb of God and in that regard can not be the end day elect who are said to survive until the climax and the end of the great tribulations time period. The great tribulation must be the time period encompassing when the gospel went out to the gentile nations of the world, this means that the great tribulation encompasses the entire new covenant age.)

When he roared like a lion the seven thunders uttered their voices. This is saying that the living word of God is speaking as they Alpha and Omega. What a mighty God like Angel WoW! I have been shown the vision friend there is no guessing, it is The Lord, for who can declare time no longer, except he be the creator of all.

Let me ponder over what you have written Salty. I endeavour to get back to you with an answer. By the way the prophets of Old testified of messiah first and only advent, so why would their testimony be ignored here. I think that I am considering them that they are already been lifted up and reigning with Christ in his Heavenly Kingdom New Jerusalem, but apparently you have them still asleep in Abraham' Bosom. I am not the one delaying their glory with The Lord, it is the teaching that is currently being taught by you and others that have them rolling in their graves. I believe that the 24 heavenly judges consist of 12 old covenant elders and the 12 apostles. Look at whom the gates and foundations of the Holy city are named after. Salvation truly came to the Jews first friend and I don't know why you want to rob that away from the old covenant saints who lived and breathed for the word of God. How can you even compare them to the Jews of the current age? The Jews of the current age don't even come close to these Holy men of God and so would God delay his plans for them to appease today's fruitless Jewish generation? I think that God has already banked his old covenant bride because that is what the scriptures testifies of. I don't know why you make God's plan and promise tied to this wicked generation (Jews and all included)? God fulfilled his promise to Abraham and your saying that he hasn't and according to you and others it has been a 5000 years promise in the making. This thought is preposterous Salty, you know very well that at the close of the old covenant age the long awaited resurrection of the dead commenced when these old covenant saints (first fruits of the harvest), who were crying under the altar of God were raised according to Matthew 27:52-53 and taken up into the heavenly Holy City of angels. I am saying God has delivered on his promise to Abraham in full and your saying that he hasn't? It can't be that we are both right, can it? It means that either God delivered on his promise or not? If he has, let us say and I truly believe that he has, then you are calling The God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel something that I dare say not. You know very well that all the passed away old covenant saints were waiting for the first and only advent of messiah to raise them out of their graves. If they knew that there was required a second advent, then they did not mention it in their testimonies, therefore they were unaware of a second coming as a condition, in order for them to be raised. If they we not aware, then are you saying that they have been deceived into believing only one coming was required to raise them up out of their graves, when you are saying no it required two comings. I think a rational and logical person would say the absence of the second coming doctrine in the Old Testament in order to raise the dead, is a testimony against the second coming teaching. I hope that common sense reveals the truth to you because you will for ever contend with the scriptures even though they are simple to read and understand. You need to have today's Jews glorified at the cost of the faithful old covenant Jews. To even have this thought is preposterous as I mentioned above. I hope that your segment of Christianity realise that today's Jews are the prodigal son who needs to be brought to The Lord through the blood covenant and to join his old covenant ascended brothers and sisters. Your segment of Christianity and mainstream Christianity is becoming an obstacle and delaying his return to his Father. I can rebuke today's Jew because my Lord counts me as one of the men of Nineveh. I want the best for them but apparently others don't. I mean come on my agenda is to have him reunited with his Father and what is revealed to me rallies the prodigal son to take up his cross as the 11th hour workmen and to preach the gospel. Why do you think The Lord said the men of Nineveh will come to judge this generation? It is because the same Holy hand that sent Jonah to the men of Nineveh sends the Men of Nineveh on the same mission to the sons of Jacob to bring them back from destruction. The men of Nineveh are the ones The Lord will use to bring back his youngest son and this is why I see that your teaching is denying them that right and delaying their return to the Father.

Scripture states that The Lord Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Ghost. Jesus of Nazareth was the Holy Spirit encased in a human body. The reason why Jesus said that he must go before the Holy Ghost can come is further evidence that the Holy Spirit became restricted in the presence of the Son of Man, the Christ, therefore his presence as the Son of Man had to go in order for him to come back again as the omnipresent Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost presented himself as a man and took on the form of his servants (Phillipians 2:5-8). Matthew 1:18-20 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Can you share why you believe Christ is the seventh angel? The only place I've heard the idea of Christ as an angel is from Jehovah Witnesses. Thanks! Yes. Revelation 10:1-10 ​And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: (The description of the Holy Angel is that of The Lord, because a cloud is a symbol of the heavenly hosts and the Son of Man is said to sit on the cloud Rev14:14-15. The rainbow upon his head is Christ's dominion Rev 4:3. His face is a brilliant radiance and feet as pillars of fire is mentioned about our Lord in Rev 1:14-15.) And he had in his hand a little book open: (Remember the little book that no one could open except the lamb. This is the book that is in the procession of the lamb Rev 5:1-6.) and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, (This Holy Angel has ownership over all life which is represented by the sea and all the earth which is Genesis One. This Holy Angel is the Creator.) And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. (A lion is a symbol of royalty and the lamb is the symbol of lion of the tribe of Judah Rev 5:5. When he speaks the seven thunders utter their voice, which identifies him as the Word of God.) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: (No Angel can declare with all authority that there should be time no longer except the living word of God.) But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. (This Angel is the one who declared the mystery of God to HIS servants the prophets. This means that he is the Word of God, the Christ.) And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. (This little book is the everlasting gospel.) And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. (The Angel gives the book to the apostle John to preach. When he eats up the message within the salvation message of the gospel it is sweat as honey. Yet when preaching it to the world it becomes bitter to the stomach because of the threat of persecution.) And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. The seventh angel is The Lord.

As Saint Paul once said, I have kept the faith and I have finished the race. Jesus said be faithful in him onto death and this will be counted as righteousness to your account.

Satan as "the man of sin?" I thought a man was a man? I thought an angel was an angel and NEVER the twain shall meet - so to speak. Satan will NEVER become a man - he will only possgess a man. LAMAD Did the Holy Ghost become a man? Yes, he is the Jesus of Nazareth. Satan comes in flesh as the man of sin, the abomination that maketh desolate. Isaiah 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

You are in error friend. Time of the restoration is when The Lord came to dwell in the believer as the Holy Ghost. This encompasses the great harvest of God that is the entire new covenant age. It is the Holy Ghost who restores man to Christ's heavenly barn through the first resurrection on the faithfuls last day when they die. Romans 8:9-11 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The Holy Ghost is The Lord ministering to us by his Holy Spirit who restores us on our last day on the earthly body as he promised the faithful. The order of the resurrection is Christ then the old covenant first fruits (144,000) then every new covenant man and women in their own order after they die. It is the Lord's Holy Spirit who restores everything to the Father from justification, sanctification and onto resurrection. Christ's is with us and he will continue to save people right up to the end of the great harvest of God until all that were in his book of life will be restored. This is not a one of event for it is an event encompassing the entire time of the great harvest of God when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead after he arose. 1 Corinthians 15:20-26 20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death

This is the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world at the climax of the 70th week of Daniel's prophesy where Christ comes as the seventh angel and sounds the seventh trumpet declaring time no longer. The earthly realm will be dissolved never to rise again and this catalogues the end of the great harvest of God when Christ inhabited it in the middle of Daniel's 79th week, when he arose and opened the tombs of the old covenant saints who were waiting for him (Matthew 27:52-53). The two books opened are the book of life and the book of the condemned. Those that did not enter in through the first and only resurrection encompassing the new covenant age after their earthly bodies died, will be the category of then condemned who were serving in hell and waiting for final judgement. At this point death no longer continues because every human has died. So those souls serving in hell are annihilated in the lake of fire which is the second death. At this point the wedding supper of the lamb of God is fully furnished with guests as his angelic white cloud he rides and the remaining condemned souls serving in hell cannot continue pat this point for they must be out out of their misery. Last this point hell and death cannot continue. Genesis one is virtually erased forever.

The great tribulation commenced at the end of the old covenant age, where the many nations of the gentile world became the recipients of the gospel as the two symbolic witnesses to preach the gospel across the great harvest of God for the time, time and half a time allotted. The great harvest of God commenced when Christ initiated the long awaited resurrection of the dead at the opening of the fifth seal and raised his old covenant bride (symbolic 144,000) then the Holy Ghost declares blessed is the faihfil who dies from now on for their works will follow them, meaning they are immediately raised and the living will not hinder them from being raised. The time, time and half a time encompasses the reaping of the great harvest of God from the 1st hour workmen who were the apostles right down to the 11th hour workmen near the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. This encompasses the first resurrection where new covenant believers who die will not suffer spiritual death like their old covenant brothers but will immediately be resurrected into their angelic bodies. The great tribulation encompasses the new covenant age. Christ does not possess an angelic body. Therefore, we will not possess an angelic body. Angels are servants to Christ, yet they (fallen angels) cannot be redeemed. Only those born of water (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth) can enter into the kingdom of heaven. In Christ Montana Marv The risen Lord is the seventh angel who sounds the seventh trumpet declaring tie no longer at the end of the great harvest of God. The risen Christ is the Angel of Yahweh's presence and he is identified as such in the Old Testament. If the risen Christ retained the earthly body as whole or in part then John would not have said the following: 1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. For a doctrine to go above the testimony of John proclaiming that they know that Christ retained the earthly body in part or whole, are bordering on Gnosticism. Because this type of doctrine states that those who arrived on the scene after John received personal revelation that John was not privy to. This is where many have misunderstood what we will be in the resurrection. Mark 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. Post resurrection. Form is not human but angelic.

All things are destined for the heavenly heavenly. Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Hebrews 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." In the Old Testament times they served at a copy and shadow on the future heavenly sanctuary that the many hosts of heaven occupy with Christ. The shadow is no more, the real one is eternal not made by human hands like it was done in the old testament times. The 24 earthly judges were also a copy and shadow of the heavenly judges who sit on the right and left side of Christ. Revelation 21:12-17 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (These are the 12 elderly heavenly judges who are the heads of each 12 tribes of old covenant Israel.) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (The other 12 elderly heavenly judges who are the 12 disciples of Christ representing the new covenant Israel.) Above are the two halves of the heavenly new Jerusalem mentioned in Zechariah 14, who are the northern half (old) and the southern half (new). And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. (The city has the post resurrection number 144, which is the number of a person who is an angel.) 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. It is an angelic body within the angelic heavenly eternal realm. Why people decide to live in the shadow of the past is worrying. This type of theology of an earthly throne is denying that the messiah came in the first place for his old covenant bride to raise them as prophesied in Ezekiel 37-11-14 and fulfilled in Matthew 27:52-53.

Salty be the salt of the earth for God. I have read and understood what you are trying to explain. If I could please have your attention to these points: Isaiah 9:6 has already happened, right? Yes/No! When the Son of Man who is the Messiah was given to us as the Emmanuel, on his first and only advent, at that instant and point in time, the declaration that the government shall be on his shoulder and this government will increase and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David. So for his government to increase means that it must of had a beginning. When was that beginning? And in what sense does it increase? What did Saint Paul say to newly converts in Christ in regards to Christ's government? Ephesians 2:12-15 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; The beginning of Christ's government began when he arose up on high as the new man, the first Adam and then newly converts started to join this commonwealth in droves. This is where his government started to increase immeasurably. But this government is not earthly and Jesus said that his Kingdom is not of this world and again he would tell his disciples to store up heavenly treasures and not earthly ones that get corrupted. Just on the basis that Jesus places so much emphasis on the heavenly, points to the human race joining him in heaven where his Kingdom is. His Kingdom was established according to Daniel 2:44 during the times of the kings of the first century, first advent. Zechariah 14 is the most misunderstood Old Testament chapter that tries to force an earthly second coming and dominion. Listen Zechariah 14 is anything but earthly and I will show you. Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; It is The Lord who gathers all nations against Jerusalem. If he is to reign on earth in Jerusalem, why would he do that? It would seem to be counterproductive if a king allows his Jerusalem to fall into the enemies hands, wouldn't it? The Jerusalem spoken of has houses and consists of many women. This should clearly convey to you that it is not the original Jewish temple worship Jerusalem, but a spiritual Israel that consists of many women, who are a symbol of the many Christian denominations and the many houses of prayer, which are the many church buildings in the world. Then the brilliant coming of The Lord, for as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:27) Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Mount of olive is a symbol of peace and not the literal earthly mount of olive, because lightening doesn't physically stand in places on earth, it flashes across the sky. So the mount represents Christ's congregation and the olive is Christ's presence in the midst of them. The prince of peace presence is the valley that extends from the east even onto the west and the mountain is the congregation of his sheep. Notice the congregation is split into two part, half to the north and the other half to the south. The north is the old covenant redeemed and the south are those many gentile nations who were invited into the commonwealth of Israel as spoken of by Saint Paul in Ephesians 2:12-15. Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. All the sheep of Christ will assemble at the valley where Christ dwells in the midst of both old covenant and new covenant redeemed saints. This is poetic language inspired by Persian poetic words that Zechariah uses, since this book was written during the captivity in the Persian empire. The word AZAL is eternity and so the presence of The Lord will reach towards eternity, because he is the eternal God Alpha and Omega. If you read dictionary meanings for AZAL you will get the wrong meaning. Need to use anthropological studies to determine that the word has Persian origins. Zechariah 14:6-7 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. The above versus clearly convey realm that has not the earthly cycle of day and night, but that light simply present. The source of this light is not a natural light from the sun, this is not the earthly realm and is the heavenly realm. This verse is paralleled by: Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. If a realm is not dictated by the cycles of day and night as in Genesis one, then it can not be the earthly realm can it? It shall be one day is a metaphoric language that conveys a time that does not elapse to time out, this means that it is eternal and timeless and without the cycle of day or night as in the first Genesis. Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. This Jerusalem is Heavenly New Jerusalem that is said to: Revelation 21:1-2 ​ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. The sea that represents the first creation, that is the first Adams have all died and their passing has also been with the passing of the Genesis one earthly realm. Heavenly New Jerusalem emerges as the place of the redeemed from amongst men throughout he first resurrection. Zechariah 14:8 is new Jerusalem consisting of the mount, that is the congregation of both the old covenant and new covenant saints symbolised as the hinder (old) sea and the latter (new) sea and this is why in Zechariah 14:4 describes it as mountain of congregated redeemed peoples, with half towards the north (old) and the other half towards the south (new). Living waters come from Christ as the light / life that feeds his both hands of his congregation in both the winter and the summer. Water from rain in the natural cycle of the earthly realm does not happen all year around. In this instant the water of life is emanating from Christ towards his heavenly congregation all the time for that eternal timeless day that never ends. In the following versus you have placed the regeneration or first resurrection as recorded in Revelation of John some time in the future, this theology is wrong as I have testified many times to you and others. You can't have the regeneration separate to that of Christ's regeneration. The time of the reaping from the harvest of God happened when Christ's arose from the dead. After all the new covenant saints who were waiting in paradise (Abraham's Bosom) were raised as recorded in Matthew 27:52-53. Why would the messiah come and not raise his old covenant bride? Matt.19 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Regeneration is the initiation of the reaping of the great harvest of God that encompasses a significant time frame of time, time and half a time across the symbolic millennium before the second death in the lake of fire. If you use the second coming doctrine, you would have a messiah coming and the regeneration commencing right throughout his earthly millennium reign. This is completely incorrect and scripture has no support for a second earthly coming. Christ already has come and therefore with his coming and ascension all faithful from that point onwards are being raised up, for the great harvest of God is not a one off reaping, but a continuous reaping throughout the new covenant age. Saint Paul stated that the living shall not prevent those that have died from being regenerated. So this means the second coming regeneration is bogus, because that would mean the dead were prevented until the living were raised also with them in a one of regeneration. Scripture doesn't talk of a one of regeneration. Matthew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Those standing around The Lord who remained alive after Christ's resurrection and his ascension into his heavenly kingdom, did not taste spiritual death to suffer to go down to the grave to wait for a future date to be regenerated. Jesus was telling them within their life time and this is proof that the Son of Man went into his Kingdom within the life time of those standings around him and not some 2000 years in the making second coming regeneration doctrine fairy tale. You either will believe the scriptures or ignore vital testimonies of when the regeneration began. Read Revelation chapter 14 and understand that the 144,000 were the departed old covenant saints who were crying under the altar in Rev. 6:9-11 who were the first to be reaped and redeemed from amongst men and were the first fruits of the great harvest of God in fulfilment to Ezekiel 37:11-14 and Daniel 12:1-4. Then this is followed by the three angel message. The first in sequence declares: Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, This is the time after the old covenant first fruits were regenerated as recorded in Matthew 27:52-53, that the everlasting gospel went out to the gentile nations of the world. This happened in the 1st century. Then what happened? Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. The Holy Spirit reiterates what Jesus told those standing next to him, that they that still remain alive to witness these we events will not suffer spiritual dealt when their earthly bodies dies, but will immediately be regenerated. The Holy Ghost declares them as blessed because after they die, their works immediately follows them. This idiomatic language points to the regeneration in context to the commencement of the generation by the first fruits of the harvest that were reaped and the verse that follows next. Revelation 14:14-16 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. There is nothing more to say friend, the Son of man has been thrusting his sickle and reaping from his harvest from the time after he was raised from the dead. This angel who cries to the Son of Man sets the feeling of urgency to start reaping as quickly as possible and to gather as much clusters from the earth. Regeneration is happening and has been happening for almost 2000 years and counting and so Christ is sitting on the throne of his glory for it is his glory and not the man David.

No it will not be an earthly throne for if it were Christ would be reigning on it already for the last 2000 years. His throne is the heavenly throne for in the resurrection we will be angels, who are the symbol of the white cloud that he rides.

Problem is, there is no Scripture for prior to Christ's coming that reveals the role of the false prophet except the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, and that Rev.13 "another beast" description directly parallels the false one our Lord Jesus forewarned of in Matt.24:23-26, and Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-4 with doing great signs, wonders, and miracles. Thus the "another beast" and "false prophet" are the same one. Rev. 13:11 is the second beast that takes over where the first beast left of from. First beast being the first Babylon religion that came up from the sea (cradle of civilisation in the Middle East). The second angel message in Rev. 14:8 shortly after the first angel message declares Babylon is fallen. Keep in mine that first first angel message is of the commencement of the preaching of the gospel by those who keep the commandments (LAW) of God, and the faith (PROPHESY/testimony) of Jesus. These are the two symbolic witnesses who are from every kindred and tongues from all the nations of the world. So the second beast must encompass the new covenant age, shortly after the first beast (religious system) falls and is followed by another apostate religious system that is lamb like, meaning is christian in appearance. Out of the second beast religious enterprise comes a false prophet or religious leader who tries to unify other religious heads. The other religious heads are ten patriarchs of the main christian denominations who have not received an earthly kingdom, but give their blessings to the religious head, who is the false prophet. The platform that the false prophet of the second beast enterprise wants to prepare is a unified apostate world religion that all worship the same God in a different way. So the false prophet initiates the great falling away from the faith by this world wide religious unification and peace movement. This false prophet is symbolised as the black dragon, because black represents apostasy and the dragon gives him power to do so. At this point the dragon who is the devil has not manifested into the earthly realm. Just recap that the first beast was influenced by the red dragon, where red represented a persecuting power that chased the disciples from city to city. Mathew 24:4-51 is the most misunderstood versus in all of the gospel. Both preterists and futurists have got it totally wrong. Jesus here is giving a summary of not one, two or three events, he is summarising the complete new covenant age. Remember the new covenant age is symbolised as the remaining half of Daniel's 70th week , since messiah was cut off in the midst of the week. Jesus gives a starting to finish summary on events from versus 4 to 15, with the abomination that maketh desolate as the end event some thousands of years later after the wars and rumours of wars. Verse 16 goes back again to the start and is described now in more detail and is not a continuation of verse 15. It is amazing that most religious scholars have fallen for this. Verse 16 continues with the starting theme in the first century where there were rumours of wars and a panic amongst the people of Judea in those times. This verse has nothing to do with the abomination that maketh desolate in verse 15. Jesus then again immediately projects thousands of years into the future in verse 21 by now portraying a shocking picture on how humans will be slaughtered in those days. The many Christ's he is depicting is described in the singular as he, the man of sin, the abomination that maketh desolate aka satan who appears on the scene, manifesting as Christs of many religions of the second beast, mystery Babylon. I replied that Salty previously made a valid point that satan who is a fallen angel will take on many forms in many places to try and deceive the world. For example the Buddhist will have their version of Christ, the Jews have their version of Christ and so do all other religions. Notice the manifestations of many Christs of the many religions are associated with the singular, when Jesus says: Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. The he that Jesus is speaking of is the abomination that maketh desolate, the beast of the bottomless Pitt who now can freely manifest himself in the world anywhere he pleases. Jesus disassociates his coming from the manifestations of the king of this world satan, by saying that he doesn't come like he does, he comes as a light and not a manifested humanoid form to be seen by people of earth. Remember Jesus said the world will never see him again and that he will come back to only his followers, to make his dwelling with them in spirit and within the context of Pentecost. We now have a real problem because satan comes after the martyrdom of the symbolic two witnesses, who represent anyone on earth who holds the testimony of Jesus. The church that is the symbol of the seven hilled city is almost destroyed, except for the few remaining elect, requiring God calling off Satan's onslaught before there is no body that represents God left on earth. So in this respect the days are shortened and then the man of sin is revealed permanently as a person amongst his earthly kings. Then God unleashes a massive interstellar retaliation and begins the process of collapsing the universe on itself. Verse 30 does back to the start again during the first century. If you didn't know Jesus liked to go back and forth on the same point repeatedly from different angles and if you thought that the Olivetti discourse is one continuous sequence of events, then your either are a preterists or a futurist and be both are in error. versus 30 to 51 have nothing to do with any of the previous summary of events. Jesus in these versus is talking about what happens to the individual. He points to the central theme of being faithful onto death and then being reunited with him at his appearing. So Jesus is telling the faithful you don't need to worry about start to finish of the new covenant age events from the first century to the abomination that maketh desolate some thousands of years later, you need to be concerned about yourselves, within the immediate time frame that is your day and hour of mortality, when you die to be presented before me for judgement. So Jesus gives you a repeated summary of start to finish events at different vantage points from the first century right up to the end where the abomination that maketh desolate makes his entry into the world. Then he provides instruction to his followers on what happens to them regardless of these worldly events. In summary the coming of the Son of man has been happening to countless departed and this is how all eyes shall see him, because all are destined to die once, to then be presented before The Lord for judgement. The high priest has already seen the brilliant coming of The Lord. Matthew 26:64 "You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." The from now on happened to the high priest when he eventually died to be presented before his maker for judgement. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 just focuses on the coming do the abomination that maketh desolate towards the end of the new covenant age and the end of the world. The coming The Lord can come for you any time when you die, so be faithful onto death is the central theme of Christianity. There is not going to be any earthly manifestation of the true messiah for it is us that are drawn onto him through death and onto resurrection. We can't come in the presence of the real messiah until we first die.