Augustine17

Interesting. I am not convinced at all to worship fully Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but God alone. The Spirit leads men to please God, and Jesus' way is the way to God, who is referred to as The Father of Jesus in Ephesians 1:3. As for the One translation, I am not aware of that being correct, but I do acknowledge that I could have a slightly off translation posted (don't think it's enough to matter though). I was intrigued so I did some research and found that that verse does indeed have a bit of mystery shrouded around it, and apparently before the 1500's it was not recorded, though I don't think it is safe to completely believe that either. I got the version I cited from ESV, which seemed correct since the contrary 'are in agreement' could mean that they have a deal, and we know that they are not bound to each other by obligation, but by loyalty are the Son and Spirit helpers of The Father. Nevertheless, my belief stays the same. If indeed I am wrong (which I doubt extremely), then may I be blocked off from this site forever and ever, all of you pray that this should happen if I am wrong in my belief. But if I am right, then the realities of the Gospel have come to you. If I am gone for a week, then you can assume that I am wrong. Everyone pray, and we will see which of us is correct. If I am wrong then I am saved by the mercy of God, because I do not intend to spread apostasy. But if I am right then you should believe the words I have posted. As far as I am aware, Jesus was not worshiped in original scripture, but he was honored greatly, neither did he teach that he should be worshiped. I will try to come and post on Saturday which is the Sabbath, the day of worship. Spread the word.

It is not false. Weird translation OneLight

Jesus is the Messiah that God chose to show The Way, and to deliver many out of the hand of the enemy. His death did away with the blood of the law to all who believe in Him, and He is alive forever. All who believe in Him have eternal life, and all of those who love him obey his commands. Jesus of Nazareth, however is not literally The Father, which is a title for His God, who is The God, the One and Only God OF ALL. He was with God in the beginning, and He was given authority over all that is created, and nothing that is created was created without The Word, and The Word became flesh and lived as a righteous one called Jesus of Nazareth many many years ago. He himself is the mirror of God's character; if you have seen The Son you have seen The Father. That is why it is expressed: And the Word was Him. He however, is not literally The Father, nor is such a thing stated in authentic scripture. The Spirit of Truth is subordinate to God, and is not literally God either. But the three are in agreement, for it is written: 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. - 1 John 5:7-8

It is true that the fool says/said in his heart there is no God. A fool is someone who acts unwisely or is silly. But telling someone you are useless or whatever just to say it is bad. It doesn't help them deal with their lack of knowledge or faith, and it just puts down, though there are circumstances when it doesn't. Jesus called one of his disciples dull before, I think because they had unbelief after he was resurrected. Still, Jesus has the well being of those who witness his way in mind when he preaches or rebukes (maybe not all of them). To call someone fool is nonconstructive unless somehow that gets them out of a bad habit or leads them to repent. A fool is referred to in Jesus' parables, but he did not call anyone a fool to their face for the sake of calling them a fool to their face, and I am not aware if he has even done it at all anyways. Also he did call hypocrites what they were and shamed them on many occasions, but when he did it he taught them a lesson or someone was taught a lesson by it. Other than that an insult is an insult, and insult's are not right. Paul also wanted people to be build up and not bring down and it is written in the Scripture. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear it. - Ephesians 4:29 + the word it at the end which I added. (approx translation I guess)

6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. - 1 John 5:6-7, your AMP Bible isn't reliable sir (Will M). It does not say they are One. Though every believer in The Way has the Holy Spirit, which is the Holy Character, it does not equate to them being all One as God at all. God does send the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit isn't referred to as God even once by any legitimate scripture, or I don't even think any acceptable one. Also Kam, God does not give 'permission' because He is at the highest authority. He said 'be light.' That is what he said, and then light was. Him giving permission makes zero sense. 12"It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And I am God. 13"Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?" - Isaiah 43:12-13 By the way that Isaiah bit says 'His name shall be called not his name is. Jesus' name is Yehoshua on earth. That means a cry for help from God, which indicates that God is salvation. If he is God as you say he wouldn't be that way. God also said, 'I will send my Son.' If he was originally God then he could not be sent. God is One. That would mean God sent a piece of himself and that is not possible, because he will not allow himself to be defamed or lowered at all. Also shiloh357 if salvation isn't a thing then how come other people of the old testament have names that indicate God is my salvation. What person is literally salvation? That's like saying Father isn't a thing but a person. It is both. It is a concept, and a person is also able to be a Father. God is not limited to a concept, and I don't think a word could even articulate the entirety of God, other than, well, God. But even that does not identify all of it. So yet again you are proven wrong. 10"Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. 11"For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act; For how can My name be profaned? And My glory I will not give to another. - Isaiah 48:11. He glorified Jesus in creation. He gave Jesus his glory. Jesus even prayed for it. But God is not defamed. No matter how much anyone said or says to try to lower him it is impossible. Permission is this: consent or authorization. He does not need consent or authorization. He does not need consent, and that is what was explained. Also @ Will M I explained the everlasting father etc a bit earlier, please read up. God declared nobody could reverse what he has done. Nobody can deliver out of his hand, so Kam, him being equal with anyone is not possible. Because that would mean he has a contender. And with Him nobody can compete. He is called The Most High for a reason. Almightyist, I already acknowledged Jesus' authority, so you showing it means you did not understand what I posted, or for some reason think that I need to be taught what I already know. You didn't even explain the verses you just had them pasted. Bowing is not worship, almightyist. In the Old Testament people bowed down all the time and there was no problem with it. God has made Jesus glorified and first in everything. God is however still greater than Jesus of course. But other than Him, Jesus is greater than all. John 9:38 isn't translated correctly and I posted on it even providing the proper verb from Greek that is supposed to fit. You could go research it on your own, I explained it in a post which is ignored yet again. For some reasons my posts are ignored. If you are so right you would not ignore it, you are just afraid. You can do what you want and I don't care because I will prove you wrong again. If you had faith you would swallow what I typed. Jesus can do whatever he wants to us and he has authority to do so. I'm trying to articulate, though, that we should worship the God he does and not Him. The Father is greater than The Son. Bible even states The Father is His God, but I think certain people here are blind so they just can't get it across the head, or God did not let them understand it. Well then again, you could only understand it if God let you. FURTHERMORE, there is a difference between praise and worship. Praise is: to express warm approval or admiration of. Worship is: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration to a God. Should be God, but some people make idols for themselves. I'm sort of going on the fly here but another thing Kam, Jesus submits to God, and he even expressed that God's will be done and not His before being crucified. This proves his submission, and in a Master/Servant relationship concession is not required, though if the servant has a request, it is ultimately in the hand of the Master to accept it. You people can quote scripture all you want but you do not thoroughly explain it thoroughly. I have made walls of text (not literal), to even explain and cite other parts of the bible that support the Truth. Even the devil quoted scripture, but Jesus interpreted it. Just because you paste that Jesus is praised and is referred to as Lord (which is true, that is what He is), you cannot prove He is God because He isn't. .

They assumed He made himself God. He and God are the same in character, a.k.a One in Spirit. Their souls are also connected. The Word was Him part means they were One in Character, or spirit, both are the same. The Pharisees also called Jesus other things that are not true. It says all things were made through him but not by him. God is the Creator. Jesus is the Word. By the Word all that is created was created. God said, be light, and it was invented. He gave things the 'breath of life.' This was all done through Jesus. Also your verse is incorrect. 45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. - John 6:45 Another thing done by the Son to show He is The Way to The Father. By the way that Rev part never referred to Jesus as The Father or God. Alpha and Omega means beginning and end. Jesus is from 'everlasting to everlasting'. That was what was prophesied about Him. When He was on earth He had left his glory that He had. John witnessed the Christ glorified. Jesus even prayed to be glorified again. Furthermore every believer has authority to forgive sin on earth. 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." - John 20:23 Because He forgave sin on earth does not mean He is God. That is a lie. But He did forgive sin and does forgive. Every believer has much authority, I am not sure why to this you are unaware. Because of his awesomeness you might have mistaken Jesus for God in revelations. He is prince of all the Kings of the earth. 4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood-- - from Revelations 1:4-5 6and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-- to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen - Revelations 1:6 To his God and Father. How you gonna get out of that? You can't. Oh, and Jesus did receive worship. From certain people on the forum unfortunately. But people paid tribute to him when He was on earth. As for worship, he did not even accept it. The blind man did not worship Jesus also. The one who was healed by Him through the power of God. proskunew,v {pros-koo-neh'-o} 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication ^That was translated as worship for some reason. It was an act of reverence to Jesus. Kneeling and prostrating was done to Kings in the Old Testament as well. Go ahead and search on John 9:38, you will find that it the english versions are not all translated the way the Greek is. The Greek was there before the English one was. Paul and The Apostles did not speak English. The scriptures of the NT are the accounts and testimony of the Apostles and devout followers of The Way and God.

He has eternal life doesn't mean he is God and the bible even designated Son and Father. By your logic if I have eternal life for believing in Him then I am God and that is plain apostasy. Please address each part of the post, if you think you are right. If I am wrong you want to save my soul, yes? Try it if you're right. I don't think you are even a bit.

Couldn't even refute the correct ideology. Go, refute it. Go explain how what I posted is false. You can't because it isn't. The proof is all against you. Everything is connected. That is how it is. You can't connect it because you don't believe in Him, and have his gift to do it. When I connect it I do not see what you could do other than ignore what I typed and/or attempt to contradict the very thing that proves your false ideology. Sloppily formatted or not it is right there on that post.

Lord does not equal God just when it is used. Lord is a term used for a type of ruler. David even called Saul a lord. 8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his - a part of 1 Samuel 24:8 Also, every sin is enmity to God. That is why it is expressed that way. When Joseph was asked to commit adultery he responded to Potipher's wife this way: 9"There is no one greater in this house than I, and he has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do this great evil and sin against God?" - Genesis 39:9 It is true that Jesus is the First and the Last because like God, he is. I stated this. That title is meant for only the two of them. As for the prophecy in Isaiah, it does not say his name is all of those things. But he will be called them. The Father sort of expressed this: 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes." - Psalm 82:6 See? Here we see that the sons of the Most High are princes. But yet they had been called gods. One of the names it says he will be called (Well, he has already been called, and I do mean Jesus) in the verse in Isaiah is prince of peace. Obviously it isn't literal. It is figurative. It is to show how the sons of the Most High are esteemed. It shows Jesus' character as well, being the same in character as God. 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6-7 It says his name shall be called and you have already typed him as God. If God called his sons God in Psalm 82:6 then he would do the same with his eldest. If He was God why is He called a child? Know what else shows this? One of the names is Prince of Peace. That is someone who is going to be king. God is the ultimate King. If it was Him, then Prince of Peace would not be a valid epithet, but king would be better. Also for everlasting Father, Abraham is called father of many nations, and the valid sons of Abraham are spiritual. Paul explained it. It was not the physical descendant that was a spiritual son of Abraham. "Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be called. - Genesis 21:12 Isaac was the child of the promise, and it is through him they are reckoned. It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. - Romans 4:13 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise. - Galatians 3:28-29 He also did not mean a descendant that is physical, but children of the promise. Jesus is everlasting, and in a way he can be considered a Father because in the body of Christ, other than God he is the oldest. He is also everlasting to everlasting. Isaiah never said what he was, but what he is called. Now will you believe in the right Way? shiloh357? This is true. God is Spirit, he was never flesh and never is or will be. Jesus said God is Spirit. He must be worshiped in Spirit. Isaiah details what Jesus is called, but Him being 'born' would yet again reveal that your ideology is wrong because God is Spirit.

What... you think Jesus does not have a soul, do you know what a soul is? The spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or entity. His soul is immortal, which is how before he was in human flesh he existed, but you refute this sound doctrine and deny that also, yet another thing you deny about Jesus. Where does the bible teach Jesus is literally equal with God? It doesn't. Yes, you are to honor the Son as you the Father (but not in the same measure). The Father is greater than he is. Jesus expressed it. The fact that you deny it shows you are an impostor. You call it heresy but do not even use scripture. Do you believe that hyped up worldly version of Christianity that teaches sinners go to heaven as well, which denies the repent or perish message Jesus preached, as well as John and The Apostles. You typed that God is not a soul. Soul is a word to describe mortal or immortality. God lives forever so that is a lie. If you mean he is not non-physical then that is a lie. God is Spirit. He is reality. Because He is not material, which Jesus stated, your theory is apostasy, if that was what you were getting at. God is not physical or He wouldn't be called invisible. Look at this: 23"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.24"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." - John 4:23-24 Spirit, however, is something that is in every entity that is created that had or has a characteristic in it. This is Spirit: The component of character. When God gives the Holy Spirit he gives a Holy Character. This is a reality. Try to deny it. For example: God tormented Saul with an evil spirit. God gives the Holy Spirit to all who love Him. A deceiving spirit went to the people of Micaiah's time and deceived many who thought themselves prophets. 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28 You are believe there are three gods by believing God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit garbage. There is not one authentic version of scripture which harmonizes this trash. 14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. The three are not called God. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, - 1 Timothy 2:5 It's clear that you are not a follower of The Way. All of that scripture supports what I have posted. Also the stuff I have posted before can testify to it, with other things from scripture included with them. True believers do not believe in what you do at the moment, shiloh357. Believers in Jesus and God follow The Way.

I believe they are not completely the same. However.. they are One. Furthermore, they are not equal. Jesus has the character of The Father. Jesus is plain eternal. The Father glorified Jesus which proves He is not equal with Him in a sense. Jesus expressed: 'The Father is greater than I'. They are One in personality. That is why if you have seen The Son you have seen The Father. Also you typed persons shiloh357, and that is used to describe an individual. Person is a synonym for soul. They are One so that is not correct. They are not individual as in, they do not have anything to do with each other, or else they would not be One. If that was the case I could say that I am One with a stranger who is the opposite of me. If you think 'like father like son', with God being Father then that is a correct way to relate. Physically a son and father share qualities, and if the variable 'mother' is ignored they are identical genetically. Now if you take that and convert it into spiritual there you have it. Thus, The Father is greater than the Son, and God is One. Jesus said God is One. 29"This is the most important," Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One. - Mark 12:29 Who can refute this or my prior information? Whoever believes in Jesus believes in all of Him, and if you do not acknowledge and believe in what he said, you do not believe in Him.

Well Jesus and God live forever so I do not think they are affected by time. If he is eternal he doesn't need to travel time anyways. I mean think about it, if He is eternal then that would mean since He went to the past for a visit He wasn't in the present right? But He is eternal so wouldn't it be that He is in all three? Prophesying is God revealing an event. If Prophets used present tense when referring to what we would have called if we were in their time the future He is already there. But there is not a good word since He is and thus is not really present. But He is Here. God is the Great I am. Part of Revelations 1:8 "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." this is recorded in it. That means He is a part of reality. Us humans are influenced but He is a being that surpasses... well I do not think I would do this justice if I tried to describe. Could not feel at ease I'm not sure this is even correctly expressible.

if you are talking about me I am not Stephen. I am not sure if you are on the right topic, but anyways I will try to help you if you do not understand yet. Wisdom/Knowledge are gifts of the Holy Spirit. But you do not need it for God to reveal something to you. King Nebuchadnezzar had a revelation revealed to him in a dream. Also before he received the Holy Spirit it was revealed to Peter that Jesus is the Messiah/Christ. 16Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. - Matthew 16:17 is the approximate translation. It is by grace that it was and is confirmed in me. Wisdom and this revealing can be different altogether. The Father reveals to those he would allow to know, to know who the Son is. Peter did not premeditate who He is. That is also why it is said 'My sheep hear my voice'. I did not understand who He is through digging in scripture, that alone will not allow anyone to understand it. I remembered I once tried to understand it perfectly and I was troubled by it since I did not trust what people display as religion prior to believing Him and wanted to know the truth badly. It sorta just happened if that is the correct way to describe it. Honestly I do not even read lengthy parts of the bible daily. As I was making posts on this topic I remembered exactly what I needed for the occasion. Yet it is not I, but the One who has allowed me to do it did it. That may be the gift of Knowledge. Wisdom is the quality of good judgement, cunning and sense. Also after receiving a new heart from Christ I found that something was constricting me from uttering worship concerning Him. When I worship God I feel alright. The constriction felt like a pull of the heart so to speak. The best knowledge and wisdom is from God. Also when you typed 'God' were you being literal or do you mean Jesus and God have the same character.

Oh yeah, @Willa he did not say his name was 'I am', he expressed: 'before Abraham was born, I am!' He said that because before Abraham existed He existed, and He is he has and He is forever. He was with The Father in the beginning. The one who said his name is 'I am' was The Lord (Yahweh, God, The Father, etc,). God is. Jesus is. The Father is greater than The Son. Both of them were there before anything was created, and thus they are both forever.

@Thallasa I do not believe Jesus is The Father or literally God and he did not say He is The Father. He did not say 'I am God', that is apostasy to His belief. He said I and my Father are One. God and His soul are knitted together, and the character of Jesus is in all who believe in Him. I do not mean believe He exists, I mean truly believe in Him, as in to be a follower of The Way. It is through Jesus that we come to the Father. He and God have the same character. That is why anyone who has seen Him has seen the image of God in a sense. Have you ever even read this? 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; - Colossians 1:18 - The Father gave/gives to Jesus every authority over what is created. Authority over all that is created, the care of those who The Father chooses/chose, The authority to shepherd believers of The Way (He is The Way), Eternal Life and the administration of it on all things created that are his sheep. 26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. - John 10:26-27 He gives them eternal life. Jesus has the authority to rebuke and reprove the church, and I think there is more but I am missing it. Also to support the statement prior:6 Jesus said to him, "I am The Way, The Truth, and The life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. - John 14:6 He even designates God as His Father. There is more about this that I can show but I do not need to. So if you believe He is God you do not believe in Him because He did not say He is God. He expressed He is The Way and that nobody goes to The Father except through Him. They are designated differently and it is a fact that The Father of Jesus is God. Thus there souls are knitted-together and He and The Father are One as He has said. Also see this: 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, - Ephesians 1:3 Another thing to reveal The Truth. and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. - Hebrews 5:10 - this also talks about Jesus. A priest is a mediator between God and the human. There is even more. This was expressed by David prophetically. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. - Psalm 110:1 The Lord (I explained reasoning of 'The' in a prior post on this topic.) refers to God and the other Lord is Jesus. He is the one who is at the right hand of The Most High. His enemies are all who do not follow The Way. They will be made a footstool on the day The Lord carries out vengeance through Jesus. I am by not trying to lower or reject the authority of my Lord Jesus Christ. God himself would be content to see that I explain to you who Jesus is, unless he does not want you to be His. I hope in explaining this I have pleased my Lord and my Father in heaven. He, Jesus, himself has expressed: 28"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. - John 14:28 Therefore anyone who believes Jesus is literally God is an idolater and does not believe what He himself has said. And if you believe in Him you believe in everything He said and is. If you believe that you believe the Father. If that is so you also believe The Father is God Almighty, The Most High, The Creator of all Created, The Great I Am. There are more things God Almighty is called but I can stop it at there. It is impossible to believe in Jesus and not his God. The scriptures testify to this. He himself does, and the Almighty God is aware of it all. Please read other posts I have made on this topic, they are similar.

@ FresnoJoe 62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. - Mark 14:62 Your version is incorrect. Also Idk why you cited 1 Corinthians 12:3. I did not damn anything in the posts I made. I acknowledge that Jesus is Lord. But as Jesus did I acknowledge the Father is greater than Him. I did not at any point in the posts I made deny the Son at all. I believe in the Son and the Father. When did deny Jesus is the Messiah? I never did nor will I ever. Jesus is the Messiah sent by God to show The Way, and to physically die and then resurrect and ascend to the right throne of God. You seem to have invented your opinion without knowledge of what I am from what I can tell. That revelations quote did not refer to Jesus by the way. The Rev 5:11-14 section. 3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:3-6 Your version of this cited is also incorrect. Jesus gives eternal life to his Sheep I know this already. You don't seem to understand my opinion, but if you think I have denied Christ please show me where I did. @Jerry1023 I am not saying that the three are separate. They are alike and One. But I wanted to clarify what this One is. Because if they were the same they wouldn't be separate. That is why we designate them differently. Also please cite what you posted about what you think the bible said, I don't think I can find that in a legitimately or almost legitimately translated version of scripture. I did not question God's integrity. I praised it. Jesus came to earth to save and to show The Way to worship God in spirit (well one of the reasons he came). He did not come so we would worship Him(Jesus). The Truth is very narrow so I tried to explain it. @enoob57 I am not sure if the people you refer to do know the Lord Jesus. I do not want to designate someone as knowing or not knowing without having a reason to believe they accept the Gospel. I have tried to explain the Truth of God given to me but you seem to think it is Man's interpretation because I can explain it. Please correct me if I am wrong. If I could not explain it it would be reality. If I could explain it then fine it is still reality. Rather you believe it or not it is. Wisdom is also a gift of the Holy Spirit. Just because someone can articulate does not mean they are wrong. I do not fear trying to reason because I know anything I reason if I pursue it to the end would lead to me believing in God anyways. I have challenged my belief before and have found that it is indeed reality. I don't need a physical revelation for it. No matter what my head does I know God is real so it doesn't really. That is a measure of faith.

If you are referring to me I am born again, and I have been given the Holy Spirit by grace. Jesus did not call himself God he said I and my Father are One. I am not lacking faith in this but you believe a fallacy. He is not Creator, God is creator. Through Jesus all things were created. Please read all of my comments on this topic. I have even proven this with Scripture. I did not stress a concept in my explanations that isn't correct. But you cannot support that Jesus called himself God because he didn't. He said I and my Father are One. If you discredit me for using scripture then don't use scripture, which is the place where we confirm all the connections we make. I only tried to help so nobody commits idolatry. I admit certain scripture parts have been mistranslated but the extent I have cited cannot be refuted.

e.e shiloh357 Please read what I typed on this page and the previous. There are times in the bible they are regarded as separate. I tried to explain it well.

King of Kings is the title given to a person who has a high amount of authority over the earth. Daniel also used it to describe Nebuchadnezzar "Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory." - Daniel 2:37 Lord of lords is a title used for someone who is lord over lords also. These epithet's don't define the character of Jesus but they describe his authority. On the last day He and His army make a huge slaughter on all of his enemies and he has KING of Kings, and Lord of Lords written on him as well as many crowns. Those titles are just some of His many. The Lord is a title used for God because 'The' makes a difference between other Lords in a way. You could say 'Lord Jesus'. But look at 'The Lord', and 'The' is used to assure that there are none alike that one. If I say Doctor Jane for example or something like that it might insinuate there are other doctors compared to the 'The' in front of it. But if I say 'The Doctor' then it assures there is 'a' doctor. 'The' makes affirmation it is used for a word that is singular in character, furthermore I could say 'president of america', or I could say 'the president of america', and the first one shows that he is possibly not the only president while the second shows he is alone the president. Like babysitter or the babysitter. That Revelations 4:11 refers to God because it stated: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. It says thou hast created all things, and the only one to do that is God. God created all things, but through Jesus he created them, and without Him nothing was created. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. - Colossians 1:16 All things were created by Him but he did not create them. They were created through Him but he did not make them. They are all for Him but he did not make them. For example, a painter can use one brush for every painting he has and you can say all the paintings are there through the brush with paint on it. But the painter made it. The primary source of the thing created was the painter, and the painter did it using the brush with paint on it. I am not really good at getting examples. Hope that one was enough. 38Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you, Let them be your hiding place! 39'See now that I, I am He, And there is no God besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. - Deuteronomy 32:38-39 See those verses are not about The Son but The Father. Jesus did not and does not except drink offerings or the fat of sacrifices made by someone to Him, those things are acceptable for God alone. For someone to accept them would be a sin, and Jesus never sinned or will ever sin nor is he sinning, ever, forever and ever.

He also said, 'the Father is greater than I'. Jesus is in very nature God. If you have seen Him who is Godly and without blame, having not committed a single sin, then you have seen the very character of God, which is why he said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Their very souls are identical. They are One in Spirit. If you believe in the Son you believe in the Father, and you cannot believe in one and not the other, that is impossible. Why? Because though the Son is not literally The Father (which is why they are designated as Son and Father respectively), they are in Soul identical and are both True, without sin and great, but the Father is the greatest. How people respond to Jesus is how they respond to God. How people respond to the children of God is how they respond to God, because the children of God are led by the Spirit of God, and that Spirit makes them Holy, and God is Holy, but not as Holy as God is because he is the holiest EVER. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are Godly. The bible describes certain people(s) in references as Godly and righteous. 6But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. - 1 Timothy 6:6 see this shows that if there is godliness as a word used to describe a measure of being godly, then there is godly, because wickedness can measure what is wicked, and righteousness can measure what is righteous. The Pharisees who are sons of the devil (Jesus called the devil their father), hated what he did and were opposed to him for no proper reason. They were so close to the devil they hated even the good that was done through Jesus by God. Yet Jesus did not even acknowledge that he is a good teacher, instead this is written: 17As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. - Mark 10:17-18 God is the source of all that is Good. Hope that makes sense. Furthermore I have a verse to support my position. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, - Ephesians 1:3 See? God has given Jesus authority over all that is created. That means everything except God, and since Jesus wasn't created because He IS, that means he himself is a one who obeys and is under God's authority, but everything else is under Jesus' authority, and also those other things are under God's authority. Jesus does not disobey at all ever and never will ever, forever. So whatever He does is in God's will and he is able to shepherd all who the Father gave Him. 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. - John 17:2

He is not God as in The Father, he is One with God. There is a difference, and yet I should elaborate because it is harder to articulate. If he was God they could not be separate. But they are 'One'. All of God's children are One with Him. I am not saying Jesus is an ordinary child of God. He did not say 'I am God'. It should also be noted that unlike us humans, he is. He was glorified by God before creation. 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. - John 17:1-4 God exalted Him before creation was. God used Him to create all that is created. He is from everlasting to everlasting. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. - John 1:1-3 See, in verse 2 it still says 'with' even though it says 'the Word was God' (idk if that is even translated correctly.) If there is a 'with' then that would mean there are two and not one, and yet he is One with God. It is tough to explain. The only way to understand is if God would let you understand. To have the information is one thing but to understand it is different. This reality I did not learn from men but from God. Their souls are knit together. Look at what happened to David and Jonathan when they loved each other as if they were one being. And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. - 1 Samuel 18:1

Well I don't think he cares about physical death as much as spiritual since those alive in Christ are resurrected anyways. If you look at Jeremiah He told him that the people would not overcome him even though he was treated so horribly and Jeremiah was fooled thinking that's what he meant, when in the end Jeremiah will be proven a victor and at the resurrection his enemies will be put under his feet. 7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived; thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. 8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the Lord was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily. 9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. 10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him. 11 But the Lord is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting dismay shall never be forgotten. Jeremiah 20:7-11 Even though the children of God are persecuted they are considered 'more than victors' by Paul the Apostle, and they are described as those who conquered the world and also Paul expressed about certain people of faith in scripture that 'the world was not worthy of them'. I don't think it is complete apathy towards physical death since He has spared his children from being persecuted in that way evidently like David, Jehoshaphat, and also Mordecai as well as Esther and even the multitude of Jews in their time. However it is circumstantial. Not every believer is executed, some are transformed at the last trumpet, and others are buried and die(physically) in peace, like David, Abraham, and Jacob/Israel for example.. Not everyone who believes in The Way is tortured by men. Not everyone who believes is put in prison for their faith. But the more suffering the greater the joy later. Paul even expressed certain believers were tortured and refused to be released for a better resurrection. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; - Hebrews 11:35

Kan that post was INCREDIBLY intellectual. That resonated with me, and you are right. The 'law breakers' are a cancer to the perfect system and are destroyed. 'The tree that does not bear fruit is thrown into the fire.' As for the atonement, I think it just made it so that anyone who believes and accepts Jesus would be able to be converted by Him from cancer to builder (obedient) through supernatural power. Before he was there people could believe in Him but he was ... easier to be unaware of. I think him dying on the cross and having lived and done all that he did made him easier to identify and thus it would probably be harder for someone to slip away. Like, for example, his teachings may not have been taught as precisely in say, the days of Moses or Abraham so it may have been less noticeable to others. Anyone who believes in Him keeps his word. If a child read his teachings at a young age and believed in them - which would result in doing them he/she would have eternal life, while in comparison someone from Abraham's time might be more easily unaware. The mystery from days of old that he taught were then revealed, as it was prophesied about him: So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world." - Matthew 13:35 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead. - Acts 17:30-31 (in reference to a prior statement) Furthermore, if anyone was forgiven, the law still demanded blood. Jesus' blood wiped all of that away. So his death atoned for many, since he saved the having to have blood paid (for example David's child was killed after sin with Bathsheeba even though he repented). Also he showed The Way and spoke mysteries that are made for the law of the universe like you stated Kan. 'When your brother hits you, offer him your other cheek'. It shows that hitting back is unproductive if it's just for the sake of getting even and not to produce some sort of future - it also shows trust in God that you can offer your body and know he will be able to save you from beyond physical death. Not to mention the amount of patience there is. 'Bless and do not curse.' - which is the message Jesus stated really helps too. Curse for the sake of curse is just a waste and is unproductive - unless it saves more than it destroys. Bless would be productive because it elevates the lower to a higher level so that there is symmetry. In a society where everyone obeyed such a law, which is complete by love, there would be many levels of peace compared to conflict - in fact conflict wouldn't even make it's self known unless there was a technicality and I doubt there would be anyways. The second earth is filled with people who do obey such things, and the second earth is much better. Likewise, the Kingdom of Heaven is much better than the 'world' which inspires cancerous conduct.

Yes, the renewed believers are cleansed. The flesh is destroyed and then there's a chance to change. A 'sinner' is someone who practices sin. Someone with the Holy Spirit never sins consistently, in fact that's impossible.. It's not like they will never sin ever though. David had sinned after being a follower of The Way, as well as Moses. They were forgiven for what they did and they repented - which is why they were forgiven. He sets free the slave of sin, which is the one who practices sin. Key word practice. The Holy Spirit doesn't live in a sinner. You are a slave to the flesh or the spirit - this is stated in the bible. When Christ sets someone free its supernatural. A 'sinner' is one who practices sin. If someone runs a race one it doesn't mean they are a runner. They ran. If someone gets drunk once it doesn't mean they are a drunkard. They got drunk. When they practice it they become those things. Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. - John 8:34 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. - John 8:36 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. - Romans 6:18 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. - Romans 6:22 Furthermore, if the Holy Spirit could dwell in a sinner, David would not have expressed this: 10Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.11Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. 12Restore to me the joy of Your salvation And sustain me with a willing spirit.… - Psalm 51:10-12

Well if its blasphemy its blasphemy and you can prove its blasphemy, what we have stated cannot be contradicted, the only resistance was some quoted scripture which I even explained thoroughly. The Truth can't be resisted so personal attack becomes a defense mechanism for anyone who believes a lie. They can't resist it so they attack. If it was a lie it could be proven, but because it wasn't a lie the one who delivered it is attacked. That sort of nonsense happened to Jesus and I know it is considered blessed when it does, but it still irritates me that someone is accused for The Truth. Just like the Pharisees could not contradict Jesus' wisdom, that is what is happening here.