Jayne

[1] Your first paragraph. That is exactly what I needed you to say and to consider. [2] Your second paragraph. Sadly, we are in disagreement. You think me saying that forcing little girls as young as nine to bear the child of her rapist is an "emotive mischaracterization"? You think she doesn't understand the implications of what has happened to her? This is a sensitive and ugly topic - no matter one's opinion.

Yes, Debp, I know all of these things and more. That's why I am holding my nose and voting for Trump. The only thing that I have no problem with is Walz and his wife having their anniversary on the anniversary Tiananmen Square. Maybe he is a history buff. Maybe he was impressed with the students who protested - especially the young man who stood against those tanks. I had this poster in my classroom for many years. It was entitled "Lonely are the Brave".

I don't hate him or Harris. They are both, with more, on my personal prayer list. And I am going to vote for him even though it breaks me.

I'm not talking about people like you who think he does no wrong. Of course you aren't offended. Everything he says is golden, right? I'm speaking about all of the Independents and those seven "swing states" and ALL of the undecideds. Moderates who are undecided and Independents like me and a HUGE part of those swing states aren't happy with his words. He needs to STICK to the issues only. Trump has GOT to have Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin if he wants to win. She does, too. Trump only got ONE of these swing states in 2020. If that happens again, he will lose again.

Are you aware that Kennedy is for babies being killed AFTER they are born? I heard him say it. Not just aborting in the womb, but killing after-birth. When asked what he thought, he just shrugged and said, "That's between a woman and her doctor." "A woman and her doctor" - that's the buzzword for pro-abortion people to get the monkey off of their back. Nicole Shanahan [Kennedy's VP running mate] has declared yesterday in the New York Post that they are considering dropping out and supporting Trump. Kennedy, himself, didn't say that, but Shanahan did. I saw in another thread where you said that "elections are always divisive". I'm 63 years old and I've never seen a division like this before. And it's spiritual as well as political. I believe this is evidence that the Lord may return sooner than we think. Either Trump or Harris is going into the White House in January. That's it. One of those two. Like you, I was planning on writing in another name. Condeleeza Rice. She was Bush '43's Secretary of State and National Security Advisor. She was and is brilliant. Speaks multiple languages. Traveled all around the world when Bush '43 was office dealing with leaders of foreign countries and they respected her greatly. Taking her and comparing her to Trump and Harris. It's laughable. However..... Since Harris announced her running mate, Walz, and having watched what's going on at the DNC this week, I cannot allow the two of them to go into office. And it's a spiritual thing. They say that the devil is in the details. Well, the devil is at the DNC this week. If you've watched, you know. It's a warning to Christians for me. I'm going to vote for Trump. Not because I like or respect him, because I don't. He.makes.me.sick. And I have NO USE for J.D. Vance who laughs at people like me with no children and believes we are miserable and like to spread misery and that because we have no children, we have no vested interest in this country. He is a smart-alek idiot. I watched the video three times and cried for 20 minutes. People have asked him to explain himself and he gets mad as that is how smart-aleks do. However, I cannot, as a Christian write in anyone's name. This election will be either the end of America or a possible chance to improve somewhat. Either way, America will not be rainbows and candyland. We are under the the judgment of God and have been. This is why this election is between people that are not worthy of the White House. The horrid left cannot go in. God will put in whom he chooses - I know that for a fact. And he puts in immoral and non-Christians many times as a wakeup call. We, as Christians, have to ask why it is going to be Trump or Harris. If we don't speak to God about this - we are idiots.

I'm just asking. I hate abortion for 95% of the time, too. What ARE those "ongoing effects" on the mother of having to carry the child of her rapist? How would you force a 12 year old to bear a child? A 9 year old? I ask about the 9 year old because one of the cases of girls that young that I read about a few years ago was in South America. She, at 9, was raped and impregnated by her uncle. Her mother wanted to terminate the unborn baby. Very early. The Catholic Church forbade them to do so. I don't know if she survived the pregnancy or what. So if a little child is raped and gets pregnant, I guess what I am asking is who gets to force her to have the baby? Now I am not saying that all rapes should end in abortion. I'm just saying that this is something that bothers me GREATLY. Who gets to tell the 9, 10, 11, 12 year old child who has been vilely raped that she must carry the baby.

Oh, I'm not a Trump fan at all. And Vance drives me crazy. We know somewhat the things that Trump believes. Here's the thing. One of these two people is going to be the next president: Trump or Harris. As much as I can't stand either one of them, I've got to ask myself - which one will bring America to a worse place. And that's Harris. By far. I'm not saying that I believe Trump is just groovy and delightful. He isn't.

We can both agree that the Bible says Adam was not deceived. And we can both agree that the Bible says that "through one man [Adam] sin came into the world". So what was the cause of that sin if not deception? The only thing left is deliberate disobedience. Deception and deliberate defiance. We are all guilty of both.

Yes, Adam was there when Eve and the serpent had a conversation. The Bible clearly states that. Genesis 3:6-8 = "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves." Yes, Eve was deceived because she entertained the words of the serpent. No, Adam was not deceived. He just flat out and deliberately disobeyed as if God had never given him instruction on how to BE obedient. Both are equally sinful. Paul said that he, himself was deceived. Jesus said in Revelation that the whole world is deceived. And all people at times sin knowing full well that should not do what they are about to do. I've never had a husband so I don't know what that is like to be lorded over. But I did have a wonderful father. He instructed me and both he and my mother chastened me when I deserved it. However, once I became aware of personal sin - those sins were on ME. Not my parents.

She entertained sinful thoughts. The biggest one being that she saw that she would "be like God". She was already like God. She was made in his image.

Abortion is an abomination before a holy God. While I believe that with my whole heart, I also believe that ectopic pregnancies [what we used to call tubal pregnancies] when the fetus is implanted in the Fallopian tubes and not the womb are not viable and will not grow to term without ripping through the mother's tubes and rupturing, killing the fetus and causing potential and terrible harm to the mother. I do not believe that terminating that pregnancy is an abomination and I know that that little fetus will be with Christ. Birth defects such as Down's Syndrome should NOT be cause for abortion. There are so many with this disorder across the world who thrive and are a blessing to their families. There are occasional and very rare things that happen in the womb that perhaps are cause to terminate. I had a friend once who worked for a wonderful man - a Christian OB/GYN and she told me that something terrible had happened. She was visibly shaken and said that during a routine ultrasound, it was discovered that a woman's unborn child was alive, but had no head. There was only the stump of the base of a brain. She said the doctor was sickened to have to tell the mother. I asked her later what happened and she said that she did not want to talk about it so I never asked again. I can only assume the pregnancy was terminated and God took that child into heaven and that child is whole. The LORD God says in Deuteronomy to "choose life". There are lots of meanings behind that, but we could make a case for protecting the unborn. My only sibling, my brother was born with disabilities and my mother/father loved him and I love him today. Even if my mother/father knew of the disabilities in the womb, they would not have terminated him. As for rape? I've read of 9-year-olds who were impregnated by family members. In those cases - I am only sure of what I would do if that were my child. An abortion that is based on a sick disregard of human life - from the mother or the father or the grandparents - is demonic. Having to terminate a pregnancy due to harsh abnormalities is heartbreaking, but I do not hold it to be of the devil.

I know that I said that I would lay low on the political posts. I am trying. I watched Trump in Pennsylvania call Harris "crazy" and claimed that he "looks better than her". He made fun of her giggle and called her a "lunatic". He said that his people have been urging him to stop calling her that, but he said, "That's what she is!" He has mocked her image of her face on Time magazine over and over again. He can't stop himself. This is how he has been all the time I have known of him which has been a long time. He hasn't changed in that regard at all. And he still cusses like a sailor at his rallies and on X. She is rising in the polls. I look at RealClearPolitics almost every day. She is RISING in the polls. In some polls, she has pulled ahead. I cannot get people to understand that if he does not CHANGE his attitude of narcissism and insults at his rallies, he is not going to win. If Harris becomes president, this country will be in worse shape than we are right now. I'm just asking those who whole-heartedly support him to pray for him to stop this ridiculousness now.

Slow down, brother. I read the first link a few days ago!

I wholeheartedly agree. My only peace about the whole thing is knowing that Christ is coming back. I have no idea, but it could be soon.

I don't ever counsel not to watch - just advice to know the Bible. There ARE TV shows that Christians watch that I DO speak out against. I watched a few episodes. I just couldn't get into it. But I may try again. And you are VERY right - the deception of the television pastors today IS worse.

Job felt like God was testing him. He blatantly said so. Was God testing Job or was God trying to prove something to the devil and to the reader [you and me]? I can't say for sure. Job had no idea of the conversation between the devil and God in the heavenlies. So he was in a deficient place to start with. Job and his wife lost all they had including ALL of their children in just a few hours. And Job was stricken with painful boils from the top of his head to the bottom of his feet. His wife has to lose the children of her womb and watch her husband suffer unbelievable torture. ALL at once. Emotional, mental, and physical agony. And spiritual, too. In chapter 23, Job says this about trying to find God: [1] - [5] "Then Job replied: 'Even today my complaint is bitter; his hand is heavy in spite of my groaning. If only I knew where to find him if only I could go to his dwelling! I would state my case before him and fill my mouth with arguments. I would find out what he would answer me, and consider what he would say to me.'" Job is bitter. I can understand. He wants to argue his case before God. He wants answers. We would, too. Job searches but can't find God. ANYWHERE. [8] - [9] “But if I go to the east, he is not there; if I go to the west, I do not find him. When he is at work in the north, I do not see him; when he turns to the south, I catch no glimpse of him." Not the east nor west or north nor south. Job cannot find God. Job needs God more than he ever has or maybe ever will. So where is God? What do YOU and I do when we are in deep need and deep despair and can't find God and don't feel his presence. I think two things. Ask ourselves WHY we are searching? Are we, like Job wanting to "argue our case" with "bitterness"? Even if we are justified, we behave just like Job. The other thing is to remember what Job finally confessed after he realized he could not find God. [10] "But he knows the way that I take; when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold." Job said that he was bitter and was looking for God and could not find him. BUT, he knew and admitted and confessed that GOD KNEW WHERE JOB WAS! God wasn't searching for Job because God was WITH Job. God was making sure Job did not die and that he was able to listen and reason and live and God would restore him. When YOU feel great need and cannot find God. Know that HE knows where YOU are and is in control and is taking care of you in HIS mercies, timing, and plan. God does not forget his people.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not saying don't add to the dialogue to increase the understanding. Mel Gibson did that with "The Passion" and I was not bothered. I'm saying just be aware of what you are watching and know the Bible better and first.

3 Nephi 15:9 - Jesus says, "I am the law and the light". They changed it to him saying, "I am the law of Moses". There are things that are added to the story that are not intrusive. Mel Gibson's "The Passion" had LOTS of things added and I did not find the movie offensive. I just wanted people to know what's in the background here. I know people that watch it and take it all as scripture.

I meant no offense. As I said to begin with, watch or don't watch. I said knowing these things, watchers may want to pray for some of these.

I know that there is a thread now with members discussing how much that they enjoy the show. And I am NOT intending in bashing the show or telling folks not to watch it. It's probably very entertaining. I just want to let you know some things that you may not be aware of. And if you do watch the show, you may feel led to pray for some things. [1] The show is, in part, funded by the Mormon church, The Latter Day Saints. At the end of the credits each episode, this acknowledgement is made. The creator of the show has stated that he sees no difference between Mormons and Christians. [2] At least one line from the character who plays Jesus is from the book of Mormon and not found in the Bible. When asked about it, the producer said, "It was a cool line." [3] It is "based" on the life of Christ, but not all the actors in the show are Christians. Represented in the show are at least one atheist, Jews, Hindi, Catholics, evangelicals, and some just "don't know". The makers of the show said they just wanted the best actors for the job. I get that. You want to make a good show. [4] They keep a Pride Flag on set. The creator defended it by saying that they are willing to work with anyone who will help make the show a great show. [5] The music? It's done by two men. One of them is Dan Haseltine of the Christian band, Jars of Clay. Very popular in the Christian music field. He believes that homosexuality is not a sin. He has publicly stated that it doesn't matter what the Bible says - all that matters is how you feel. My point is NOT to tell you not to watch. My point is just to be on guard with ANY film or tv show that professes to be teaching you about Christ. My point is that God gave us the messages and stories of Jesus in the Bible. He could have sent Jesus to Earth very early on when there were just stone carvings. He could have sent Jesus when people were using cell phones and computers. God sent Christ at a time when books were being written. THE book, the Bible, is where we should get our understanding of Jesus Christ. All I'm saying is READ THE BOOK FIRST and then you will have enough discernment to know if something is truthful or not. I used to tell my students - "Never EVER take your history, science, or Bible from a movie or TV show. Facts have been altered to entertain." Watch the show in peace, but watch it based your knowledge of what is actually in the Bible.

And there it is. ^^ Why can't people see it?

@Debp @Dennis1209 You wonder about the judgment of God and America. America has BEEN under the judgment of God since at least 1992 - the Clinton years. A case could be made for before that. If people would just read their Bibles, they would know that God hates even the systemic sins of entire countries as well as the sins of the individual. How many nations in the Old Testament did God place under judgment? Even ISRAEL! Even though he loves them and isn't finished with them. Why would God just molly-coddle America? Because we are so great? So powerful? Do our systemic sins not count? “Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear” Psalm 2:10-12 What are our sins as a nation that are systemic [belonging to the whole]? The MULTI-billion dollar porn industry that reaches down as far as elementary school. Abortion - becoming more and more normalized. Christians that are lethargic, spiritually/Biblically ignorant as dirt, watch and read the same nastiness as the rest of the world, and basically live with such shallow roots that they don't know the difference between holiness and paganism and really don't care. We are a nation that consumes too much: too much food, alcohol, television [the idiot box], filthiness, monies, drugs, and anything that brings us that dopamine high. We live as if we are our own God and the true God has been shunned. What's the PROOF that we are already under the judgment of God? Consider these: We are getting the leadership that we deserve. The family - the God ordained family - has been redefined. Rampant and horrible crime. Our borders that are being torn asunder and invaded. Our currency and economy falling apart. Socialism, Marxism, and communism being accepted. The church accepting homosexuality. Our nation pushing deviant sexual practices as entertaining and normal. Anti-semitism on the sky-rocketing rise. The church is, like an overfed glutton, fast asleep. America sees, but does not perceive. America hears, but does not understand. America has a heart, but does not believe nor obey. We have BEEN under the judgment of God.

Gracejj - Job has just had EVERYTHING taken away from him. And it wasn't bad things like disease or hardship. It was all of his good things that was taken away. 7,000 sheep 3,000 camels 500 yoke of oxen 500 female donkeys Numerous servants 7 sons 3 daughters In a matter of a few hours, he lost it ALL. God allowed it all to be taken away from him and his wife. God gives blessing and curses. God takes away blessing and curses. His reasons are his own.

If that "one member" is who I think you are talking about, she is a self-professed mentally ill person. One has to take what people like that say with a grain of salt. And be kind and not argue with them. What do I think? I think life there is horrid. It doesn't stop with marriage with these child brides. When they get pregnant, their bodies are too small and their extended uteruses will many times adhere to their little bladders causing their bladders to tear while giving birth. It's called an obstetric fistula. And the nightmare is only beginning. Because of the tear in the bladder that isn't repaired, these little girls "drip" urine constantly and they smell. They smell so badly that their adult husbands get rid of them leaving them homeless and sick. I watched a documentary several years about an older woman who took a team of doctors somewhere in the Middle East, built a facility, and gave free surgeries to these girls. They gave them clean clothes and female goat. I can only pray that the facility is still there. God is performing miracles in the Middle East at far as both Muslims and Jews coming to know Christ. That's what I pray for when I think of those in that part of the world - miracles. We should pray for these - daily.

Debp, I saw this when it aired. I must get television channels that you don't. What you are calling a change is the fact that he is standing inside of a government building near a voting area and cannot talk loudly. Don't confuse soft spokenness with a change. He STILL spoke as a "politician". He still spoke as Trump. He stated publicly last week that one of Harris' airport receptions was not real - that no one was there that it was just AI. Since then it has been proven that a large crowd WAS there. When asked about it here he said "Well, I don't know who was there. I only know that we have the largest crowds in political history." Why couldn't he just apologize for lying about her? Why did he have to exaggerate about his crowd sizes? I'm going pull the lever beside his name on election day because we cannot have Harris/Walz going into the office. But my opinion about him has not changed.