BlueMinou

The tried and true bible for centuries is the Latin Vulgate, long before the King James Version existed; The Douay-Rheims english bible existed before the King James Version. I still haven't heard from anyone my points I've brought up about how the Bible literally says God creates darkness and evil in response to you saying the bible literally says "ye may know." Shall we go by a literal reading of the bible in this context, or, shall we refer to an authority who can correctly interpret the text for us. What is you authority to interpret the text: The Bible alone?

The good news of Once Saved, Always Saved and Saved By Faith Alone is not part of orthodox, catholic nicene-christianity--it's a hetrodoxy that originates with the Protestant Reformation. I'd love to pull out all the stops and post the Catholic point-of-views but the thread would either be deleted or my post context deleted or the citations to the appologetic source material removed. So, I'm going to bow out of a discussion here on whether the Catholic teaching on salvation is right or wrong, but I do would like to continue discussing OSAS and expressing my personal opinion that it is a false notion---and seeing how people respond. I'm merely discussing the doctrine of OSAS here because I am a protestant investigating catholicism and I do find that I am being persuaded more-and-more about the truth of the catholic (including the Orthodox Church) take on scripture. Now, I do post arguments in here to see how other protestants do respond. For me, this is a matter of conscious. I hope you can understand. I'm not here to win an argument or be right or wrong. I am disappointed that I can't cite catholic appologetic material from online tracts and websites to see counter arguments to them without it being deleted, censored, erased and being brushed off as someone who has a false notion. Sure, feel free to dismiss my views, arguments and so on, but as it stands, I'm walking down the same path as men like Scott Hahn and Steve K. Ray. I still remain an evangelical protestant at the moment though.

Well, I sense that we aren't on the same page here on the topic of Eternal Security, so I'll quote carm to help me clear up any misunderstanding: "The three different terms (eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints) are often used interchangeably. However, there are subtle differences between them even though they basically mean the same thing--that a person cannot lose his salvation." https://carm.org/what-is-the-difference-between-eternal-security-once-saved-always-saved-and-perseverance-of-the-saints I am using Eternal Security and OSAS interchangibly. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. In that context, I have shown examples that demonstrate that Calvin was in error.

John 5:13 doesn't proclaim Eternal Security. But, let's go with your logic here. The kjv literally says "that ye may know". Therefore, according to you it means Eternal Security Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version says literally thst God creates darkness and evil. " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." If we take the King James Version literally, are we to believe that God is a god of evil? Literally, the kjv text says God creates evil and darkness. Paul says in the kjv 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 " Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" My point is that 1 John 5:13 does not prove Eternal Security. It proves Eternal Security no better than an athiest using Isaiah 45:7 to prove that God is evil and is the creator of both moral evil and darkness.

Are you a King James-onlyist, then? Israel was God's chosen possession(Deut 7:6). We know how that turned out to be. Wicked servant had his debt forgiven, and he was not merciful to others afterwards. He was cast out. (Matthew 18:33). We remain in Jesus's love if we keep his commands. We do not remain in his love if we do not keep his commands.(John 15:10). Jesus says it's possible to not remain in him. He says "If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. Jesus says the wicked servant can be punished and be put with hypocrites. (Matthew 24:51). Jesus said his servant can be judged as wicked and slothful, with his talent taken from him and given to someone else, with the worthless servant being cast out. (Matthew 25:26-30). OSAS is a false notion invented by Calvin. It's unbiblical. It is a false doctrine.

I'm reading up on John 10. I do ask you a few things: Which other way do you think Jesus is referring to other than the door? Who is Jesus referring to as a thief and a robber in your opinion?

"1 John 5:12 12 He who has the Son has life; he who has not the Son of God has not life." Just to be clear, are we talking about those who abide, and continue to abide, in Jesus?

Ephesians 1:14: RSV "who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:14: ESV 14 who is the guarantee[a] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[b] to the praise of his glory. I'm not misquoting that verse. What version are you using. Are we going to quarrel over an english translation, because I do not desire to bicker over an english translation. I chose RSV because it is accepted by both Protestants and Catholics.

Shiloh, The parables of Jesus make it plain and clear that Calvin's doctrine of Eternal Security is an untrue interpretation. It's a false notion.

Ephesians 1:14 says The Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL WE ACQUIRE possession of it. It does not say you have acquired anything in this present time. Of course, it is a deposit for an inheritance so long as we do not dis-inherit ourselves!. The verse does not indicate a guarantee of Eternal Security; It does, however, indicate an assurance of security.

Psalm 103:3 which was written before the New Covenant says "He forgives all my sins and heals all my diseases." This does not say all future sins are forgiven. Colossians 2:13 says "He forgave us all our sins". This does not say all future sins are forgiven. Even after Jesus rose from the dead, he granted apostles the authority in John 20:23 to retain people's sin. I believe you are sadly mistaken to believe that a christian who is born again(baptismal regeneration) does not have he free will to rebel against God. What is your authority to interpret the scripture? We are both using the same bible when personally interpretting it. Paul himself says "I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it." He continues on to say that "I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus" as if he hadn't received it yet. Paul says in another of his latters "But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." It is a biblical fact that Paul believed it was possible for him to be disqualified and that he didn't consider himself having obtained anything just yet. Once saved does not mean eternally saved. Paul makes it clear believed it was possible to be disqualified and made sure to be diligent in how he conducted himself and was obedient to Jesus. I'm going to conclude my post with a remark from James: "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?"

One can still become an apostate and choose to rebel against Jesus as their Lord and walk away from the faith. They could fall into temptation and decide they'd rather party and fornicate rather than live a life of celebacy before marriage, get killed, then they'd die in a state of sin---or even fall prey to evolutionary beliefs when attending University and decide the christian way is a falsehood to them and therefore not true, because they can't reconcile the theory of evolution with the story of Adam and Eve, and so decide to become an athiest; But according to OSAS, such a person would be eternally secure regardless.

Rom 6:23 is eternal life in Jesus Christ. I agree. But where in the verse does it say you are guaranteed eternal life? It doesn't. I have a response for you though: Where in the New Testament does it say all your future sins are forgiven before you even commit them?

I'm looking forward to all the replied to see what people have to say.

Jesus said "If any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book". Jesus also said "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." And elsewhere, Jesus says, "whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." Again, Paul says , "we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us." Osas supporters. Thoughts with regards to this?

I feel 1 Cor 1:10 is very relevent with regards to your initial post, OP. We don't have Paul, Peter, and Apollos with us on Earth today, but we have many different teachers and factions in the christian faith called denominations that are divisive and dissent from one another to either form their own church, join one to their liking or to form their own. I follow this teacher; I follow this church; I'm part of this denomination. 1 Cor 1:10 really speaks to me with regards to this.

John 3:5 is talking about baptismal regeneration: Being reborn as a child of God through baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit(through baptism).

George I agree with your post.

My point still stands that Arius worshipped the first person on the Trinity, God The Father.

Yes, we both agree he taught lies and had the wrong idea about who God is, and who Jesus is. Still, Arius still worshiped the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the Great I Am, did he not? How is that any different than the jews of the Old Testament worshiping YWHW without accepting Jesus as God, or that YWHW is a triune God? Although Arius really did worship YHWH, we both agree that he was in error regardless of how he worshipped YWHW.

Arianius was a christian minister who recognized Jesus as the messiah, but rejected him as divine because he taught the lie that Jesus was a mere creature. He worshipped the same God as we do, but he had the wrong idea and rejected the truth about Jesus for a lie---just like muslims do; And Jehovah's witnesses, and jews who do not accept Jesus as the divine Saviour. What do you have to say about that?

Hi everyone. I know what I say may not be taken with any weight. I do thank every one of you who gives what I say some consideration. The old and new covenant have a lot of parallels. Consider the fact that jewish infants were required to he circumcized on the 8th day. They didn't make a profession-of-faith; They couldn't make the decision for themselves; They had no choice. Once circumcized, the infant was a jew. Jew-by-birth. Infant circumcision is biblical, though a sign, the infant was a jew nonetheless. This is my first and leading point. What about Baptism? One is normally received into The Church by an act of baptism, like circumcision. "He then brought them out and asked, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." And again, Peter says concerning Baptism "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children." My second point is that the whole household was saved through baptism. The children were not excluded just as jewish children were not excluded from having to be circumcized in order to enter into the covenant with their God.

Thank you for your reply. Even jewish people use the bible when pointing out why they reject Jesus as the Christ and God. Even christians who disagree with one another use the bible to cite their disagreements. God bless you for your reply. Thanks.

Jews generally worship the same God as the christians while rejecting the divinity of Christ....

Jews generally worship the same God as the christians while rejecting the divinity of Christ....