Behold

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

@Alive

 1. ) the process of salvation. 

 

2.) This new life we are to walk in, but that does not mean the old life is no more, vanished, never to be a problem again for the rest of our lives.  It means we need to continue in Him, one step at a time.  It is not until we die that our old man vanishes with the natural desire it encompasses.

3. ) God will never dishonor His word, but we may.  This brings us back to the beginning, why Jesus warns individuals to repent, for they turned from their relationship with God.  When I hear of someone saying that a believer does not need to repent of their disobedience to God words once they are saved, my mind goes back to the first sin man made and how the same words turned Eve from obeying God.  The words of that lie that echoes in me is "You will not surely die."

 

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Well there is a lot wrong with what you are implying.   As there is a ton of implication here..

1.) First. @OneLight.. you mistakenly  call Salvation a Process.  And this statement is simply  a complete misunderstanding of Salvation.....See, what you have done is twisted  the idea of "work our your salvation" into "keep yourself saved".  You've turned what Jesus did, into what you are doing as self effort....  You've substituted the Cross for your WALK, for your Discipleship.  This is because you don't understand that what Jesus accomplished by his Blood, Death, and Resurrection= IS Salvation.........Its not what we do with it.   It what Jesus did that created it, and you dont understand this and that is why you think that your "walking it out", is actually Salvation, when in fact, what Jesus did on the Cross is SALVATION< that is OFFERED as a FINISHED Blood Atonement.  You dont "walk that out"  You RECEIVE IT BY FAITH.   So, the "process of salvation" that you are confusing with What Jesus finished as His "WORK" on the Cross.....= what you are always doing.... is..... You are always confusing YOUR DISCIPLESHIP  with "The finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross".

2.)   You have this idea that because we have "flesh", that this gives us the excuse to keep sinning, repenting, and this becomes our Christianity.  Thats not true.

 Or as you say, "It is not until we die that our old man vanishes with the natural desire it encompasses"" So, what you said, is not my reality, is not my Christianity, and should not be anyone's who understands how to "Walk in the Spirit" by Right Believing.   You however are sinning and repenting because you are walking in the flesh, and until you learn how to Believe Right, you'll continue to fail, and talk more to us here about your Repenting.

3.) Again, you are teaching that you can stop being born again.. Stop being IN Christ, and stop having Eternal Life because you "walk away".   

This is once again Your Legalism being defined as "you can lose your salvation" by "walking away".  

Listen, God has purchased the born again person with the Blood of Christ.  This makes us OWNED by God......and eternally so.   There is no walking away from being born again.   The idea of walking away that you present , is the idea that you can dissolve an eternal union with God and  Christ because of a mood swing.

= false  Theology that is not only illogical, but, Grace Defying.

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

The devil has many more tricks up his sleeve than just attacking the cross. 

The worst thing The Devil can do through a believer is to cause them to try to put real born again Christians under the bondage of SELF EFFORT to keep themselves Saved.

This is how the Devil uses a deceived "believer" to defy the Grace of God.

So, when you find one of these trying to replace "the Finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross", with Personal WORKS to try to do what only Christ on the Cross can do, then you've found a deceived believer.  These people are incredibly harmful to other believers because they are relentless in their carnal desire put a Christian under bondage to  "keeping themselves saved".  They are relentless in their carnal desire to try to cause a believer to believe that they can lose their salvation.

2 hours ago, luigi said:

By my understanding, our atonement through the Lord's sacrifice, grants us the grace so that should we so choose we are then no longer bound to our carnal natures to continue sinning. Prior to accepting the Lord's atonement, we had no option to leave our sin, and were strictly bound to continue sinning.

I will continue to strive for this goal of being in the Lord who is Spirit, while I continue to leave my carnal inclinations, which is sin, behind me. The two cannot be together (Romans 8:5-6). If, however, I should choose to continue going after my flesh, the outcome according to the Word is then death, which I understand to mean spiritual death.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Yes.

Resting in the peace of God, in the Grace of God, allows us to lose our sin consciousness.

However, because you can't stop being "in Chrsit" and because God does not charge you with your sin,  Romans 4:8 (works of the Flesh), then there is no "spiritual death", as you have already PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE...   John 5:24

8 hours ago, Willa said:

No, we can't love our neighbors or our enemies without Jesus living in us i.e.being born again.  That is the first thing God showed me in Scripture and in life.  I lacked love.   For that matter, Do I truly love God as He loves us?  Do I really lay down my life for my friends, even those who believe they are Christians but refuse to believe the truth of Scripture?  I weep for them and pray for them.  Only God can save them from their deception.

I think you need to go back a few posts, and read where they said that 'justification" does not mean anything..

So that is why i was talking to this person about being born again.

2 hours ago, luigi said:

. The devil spins what the grace of God means to mean something simplistic where we can continue to sin without any repercussions, while continuing to worship our sins

Actually,  when  the Devil is dealing with believers, He tries to negate the Cross by trying to replace the Gospel of Grace with the Gospel of Works/Self Effort.

Where Satan tries to change it, or to over-write it, is regarding what Keeps you Saved.  That is where He twists it.   See, He can't keep you from being born again, but he can ruin your understanding of God's Grace by causing you to believe that you have  the burden of keeping yourself saved for the rest of your life...   His deceived try to do this to you.  They would have Jesus off the Cross and you up on it trying to "complete" your salvation, or Keep yourself Saved.

They would teach you that.....The blood atonement is subject to your behavior, and has no power of itself to maintain your Salvation for eternity.   They sound like this..."well, you are saved, until you sin...and then, your relationship with God is broken...SO, you repent, and confess, and then YOU have restored yourself back into God's acceptance.

See how that denies "The Finished WORK of Jesus on the CROSS" ?

8 minutes ago, luigi said:

Brother; if I love God with all my essence, and my neighbor as myself, I then have completed the law, while not intentionally following the law, and am therefore fully justified.

Where is the Cross ?   Its missing.      Where is the blood of Jesus shed for you?   Its missing in your theology.

Anyone can love their neighbor.  But not everyone is born again.    Jesus said to you... That "YOU Must be BORN AGAIN".

3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

.  Part of the sanctification process requires us to continually take our spiritual inventory to ensure we remain in Him.

We are "in Christ" because we are born again.

Salvation, is finished at the start....We BEGIN, as the Righteousness of God in Christ.  There is no making that better or perfecting it..

So, what you are talking about is our discipleship that has no impact on the BLOOD Atonement that has already accomplished our Eternal Life and Redemption.

Your gospel of "adide and repent", is actually the error of  trying to keep yourself  saved by your self effort.

18 minutes ago, luigi said:

 I do not care about justification or performance, all I know is that to love God with all one's capacity, and to love one's neighbor as themself is the gospel of Christ.

That is one of the commandments that Jesus gave us... that you are referring to... @luigi

We are not saved by commandments, we are saved by the shed Blood Of Jesus.

If we are to go to heaven, then we have to so what  Jesus said...>"You must be BORN AGAIN".

9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

If you were speaking the truth about me, you would not ignore the many times where I show you who I am.

I  see you, clearly.

How many more times will you continue to write "abide and repent", in ALL your posts that describe how you are trying to keep yourself saved?

5 minutes ago, Debp said:

Brother, I think you meant to address another member with the above remark.

Maybe everyone needs to take a little breathe just now.   The other member also attributed words to me that I didn't say.

Thank you. , sorry.

= deleted.

30 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I'm not going to repeat over and over again the same replies to your intentional misunderstanding of what I said and/or your purposeful twisting of the meanings of my statements.  All I will say is that you are absolutely wrong about what my replies are saying, ignoring scripture I provided to you and everyone else who is asking the very same questions over and over again.  Quotes please, they don't lie!

I've not lied about you.  I just show you, you.

@OneLight... the reality is, you have been telling me, and everyone you can find on this forum, for years, that they can lose their salvation.   Your reason being, is, that you have concluded that you keep yourself saved, or you are not saved.   You will then teach your gospel, which is......"Jesus started my salvation, but to stay saved i must keep abiding and repenting".

Thats reality.  That is your gospel of self saving, of Keeping yourself saved, by what you say does it for you... "abide and repent".

33 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Objective guilt only applies to unbelievers; but believers can sometimes feel guilty.

They feel guilty, then they repent and confess of that which they have thought about or committed, that to them is a "sin", , to try to resolve their guilt.

Most think that by doing this they are restoring relationship or fellowship with God., which is of course, impossible.

10 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

  More and more people today want nothing more than a handout and to have to do nothing for it.

 

Salvation is a Gift.  

Stop trying to keep yourself saved.  Instead, give all Credit due Christ alone for saving you and keeping you saved.

Don't try to take this credit for yourself by teaching a gospel of "abide and repent", as this is self effort, and self effort has no place "In Christ".

7 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

2000 years ago Yeshua died for my sins. They were ALL future sins and shortcomings. They are/were all forgiven. A one time Salvation from my sin.

This is exactly correct. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This salvation for our sin, is Yeshua becoming our sin, and not ours only, but for the sin of the World.

The proof that our salvation is COMPLETED, is because we are BORN AGAIN.    This is proof we have Eternal Life and Eternal Security.

The same Blood of Jesus that God provided that redeems us, is the same that continues to do so....  its a one time sacrifice ...that never stops REDEEMING.

The Blood Atonement is always saving FORWARD into the future.

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

Logic dictates (shows me) that there is a difference between what Jesus did (cross) and what we need to do (abide/remain/continue in Him even if that means to repent).

We don't remain in Jesus because of what we do, anymore then we  saved ourselves to begin with..  .. Jesus remains in US..  He is our eternal life, our resurrection, our Eternal Security,  and our everlasting peace with God.

Stop teaching the gospel of self effort.   "abide and repent'.... Try to understand that we are SAVED AND KEPT SAVED by JESUS WHO SAVED US.

See that Logic?   You should try it for yourself.

13 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Yes, and when we get to be before Him in heaven, this will be the reason why.

 

There is only ONE reason why anyone goes to heaven.    Its because we are Born Again.

If we are Born again, we are already in Heaven, having been translated from darkness to light, ... we are already IN The Kingdom of God, that is within us.

50 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Do you realize that you have said the same thing over a hundred times and I have shown you that what you are saying is false?  

For the 6+ yrs you've tried to teach all believers on this forum that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as their "abiding and repenting',...so then of course i reject your gospel of works.

We are not kept saved by works or self effort... We are kept saved by what Saved us.....The Blood of Jesus.   That you dont believe this is a issue you need to resolve, asap.

I teach the Blood Atonement.  I teach "Grace through Faith"....  I teach that "God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it"... Philippians 1:6

I teach the Cross and the "finished work of Jesus........, while you teach....>"abide and repent".   

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

What there is no end to is speaking the truth about when I see a lie.  You see, all you have to refute the words of Jesus is your words brought to you through the eyes of your theology.  No scriptural proof to show His words have a different meaning than what He says. I continually stand on all scripture, which you have proven over and over again you don't.  You rely on only the words of Paul.  Why?  Only you can answer that.If you have a disagreement with what Jesus says, you need take it up with Him and tell Him how wrong He is.  But, before you do something that stupid, here, read it again.  Maybe His words will sink in this time!

I rely on Paul, because i'm in the time of the Gentiles.  So, as Paul is my gentile apostle,  (Apostle to the Gentiles) who Jesus personally gave the doctrine of "justification by faith" then as dawn follows dark we would always follow Paul directly, regarding The Gospel of Grace, as it came from Jesus, to Paul, to us.

So, as i said, you gospel is always....>"abide and repent".  These are both self effort.  Self effort is the opposite of the Grace of God. The Grace of God has one work in it.. only one, and you need to learn what this is,  @OneLight... Here is the work you need to be doing....  "The finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross"... See that "work".....You don't do that, and that is the only "work" that supplies the Blood Atonement.   Your gospel is not the Blood Atonement.  Your gospel, is.."abide and repent".   

11 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

. Since Augustine's teachings became the touchstone for church doctrine, both Catholic and Protestant,

Umm, no.

They are related to the CC.

The idea of "Original sin" is a CC idea fostered by Augustine.

The Pauline idea is "sin nature", derived from the Fallen Adamic nature.  This is why Christ has to give us a "New Creation", which is a new nature, that is separated from the 'old man" the Flesh, by Colossians 2:11.. "the circumcision made without hands". This is our born again Spirit, that is Joined as "ONE" with God, "in Christ".

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

the one teaching this could cause the child to sin by implanting in them the idea that they don't need to repent of sin.  

 

You are talking about a child sinning, while you teach a gospel of self saving, to stay saved "repenting and abiding", that if believed takes a person away from Faith in Christ to faith in Self.

8 minutes ago, Don19 said:

 

Alternatively, some may interpret James to be talking about justification before men. But Abraham was justified before God for offering Isaac,

No he was not.  Abraham was justified by faith, without the deeds of the law.  This is why he is the father of our faith.

He was justified by FAITH.....THEN, he offered.

Where people get lost is....> they read it like this......"He offered to THEN  be justified by faith"", when its actually.... He was justified by faith, then was going to offer....

""""Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by GRACE and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring""""

"Grace THROUGH Faith".

13 minutes ago, luigi said:

 

If, however, someone simply claims to be born again in Christ, while their actions (as the examples of hate mongers) indicate otherwise, how am I then supposed to accept this as truth?

I understand that you want to be able to "know them by their fruit"..

But Satan also knows this verse, and this is the issue.  And because he knows it, he uses it to lie.   

The only way to spot his people, is by noticing what they do with the Grace of God.  If they reject it as being a FREE GIFT, and try to change Grace into WORKS to stay saved, then you have spotted them.   He uses CHRISTIANS to teach deception, as they are DECEIVED.

13 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Did disobedience and sin change from the OT to the NT?  

 Yes, have one's priorities straight is very important.  Obey does not mean rest, it means what it says, to obey.  

Adam's Disobedience was resolved by the finished work of the 2nd Adam, =  Jesus on the Cross.

IN the OT, there was no Cross, and there was no one time sacrifice that obtained eternal redemption for all who "Believe" and are Born again.

What God  NOW requires of us is to obey is the Gospel by Believing it.   

 The Gospel is that we are saved and kept saved by the finished work of Jesus, who bled, died, and then rose again from the dead to prove that He and He alone is our redemption......... and not ourselves.

You are preaching that your works save you.  They do not.  They do not save you or keep you saved.

Your gospel is...>"repent and abide to STAY saved"....and that is not the Gospel of the Grace of God.

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Feeling guilty is an emotion; but objective guilt, before God, is real, whether you feel it or not. 

Being guilty before God, is to be under the dominion of the Law, as its the authority of the Law that proves that an unbeliever is guilty before God.

Christ has "redeemed us from the Curse of the Law", and now we are "not under the law, but under Grace".

Grace has freed us from all GUILT, because Christ having obtained eternal redemption for us,  = produces this...

 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So, if a believer is feeling guilty, then they are walking in their flesh, and this is where the guilt is coming from.... as there is no condemnation in Christ.

If we walk in the flesh, we will commit deeds of the flesh, and our mind will react accordingly..

"if we walk in the Spirit we will not commit deeds of the flesh", = no guilt.

10 minutes ago, luigi said:

There will be those like the Samaritan in Luke 10 who believe in love, but who think they did not know the Lord, who the Lord will declare as His sheep (Matthew 25:34-40 & 46), through their knowing love for their neighbor. In contrast, there will be many like the priest and Rabbi in Luke 10 who will think they knew the Lord, to whom the Lord will declare His never having known them (Matthew 7:23; 25:41-46), through their unbelief in love for their neighbor. Love is the gospel that will be preached throughout the world before the end of the current world order under the devil concludes.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

If. you are born again, the Lord knows you.