Dennis1209

I agree that it does not detract from the Gospel message. My first point is when someone says, "I do not have that verse(s) in my Bible." Oh well, I will skip that. No, I think a brief explanation is in order to explain the manuscripts used, and later insertions, and why. The second point I was going to make is that I believe the angel stirring the water is a myth and superstition that the Jews believed in for some reason. Most scholars and theologians agree on that point. A brief example: The earliest manuscripts omit these words which appear to be a late insertion to explain why the pool water was “stirred” (v. 7). People believed that an angel came and stirred it. According to local tradition, the first one in the water would be healed. But the Bible nowhere teaches this kind of superstition, a situation which would be a most cruel contest for many ill people. No extant Greek manuscript before a.d. 400 contains these words.11 Blum, Edwin A. 1985. “John.” In The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, edited by J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, 2:289. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

I am not teaching; it is a discussion leading up to the early and later MSS used—omissions, footnotes, and a couple of other observations. I do not appreciate insinuations that I am lying. Welcome to my ignore list.

I have had those thoughts and speculations myself. I tussle with whether they are symbolic or literal, as I hear of no plans to move anything to Babylon yet. The United Nations wants out of New York City because they cannot expand and all the congestion. What strategic, idyllic, historical, or better place for them to relocate to than Babylon? However, where I believe we are at the tail end of this age, I have not heard a peep of a UN relocation. But that could turn on a dime.

Okay, but first, what Bible translation(s) do you use? Pick five of the top word-for-word Bible translations and read John 5:4. Then, I will discuss the theology of physically competing to be the first to get healed in the stirring waters.

Hi Marilyn, I think I figured out why we look at things differently, and it is not that complex. Which direction do toilet bowl water and cyclones rotate down under? See, you are looking at things from a different direction than those up above. Up above, clockwise is the natural flow of time and progression forward. Down below is counterclockwise to it. Well, you get the idea. It is all geography. I think Zechariah 5 is closely associated with your thoughts. How do you interpret it? Do you think it has been fulfilled in history or is still to come?

I am preparing for my Sunday School lesson next week (John 5:1-11, 17-20). We have long used Lifeway Senior Bible Studies for Life, a good Bible study platform. In our Bible, if it sounds strange, it is probably vital or deserves further study to get clarification. The best way to study the Bible is to let it explain itself. You might say our church is a KJV-only congregation, and I stick to that for church and Sunday School. However, I often read other translations, such as the ESV, CSB, and LEB (acceptable word-for-word translations), to better understand some passages' meaning. But what if the verse(s) are omitted, much like original manuscripts ending at Mark 16:8 in some Bibles? John 5:2-6 (KJV) Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. 3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had. 5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? Does the above scripture sound doctrinally, exegetically, and Biblically correct? Before I submit and comment on my study and thoughts, I would like to hear how you would explain and interpret the above.

Good morning warrior12, I do not have more insight than anyone else. I do my best to convey my prophetic thoughts as possibilities and am seldom adamant. Everyone's interpretation of Scripture varies for reasons too numerous to mention. Christians are commanded to watch for these prophetic things, particularly the generation that starts seeing them, as the Lord's return draws near. I, too, have studied Mystery Babylon and read countless books and commentaries. Good arguments are postulated; it could be America in general and New York City in particular, and it somewhat fits. The Vatican is more wealthy, prosperous, and influential than most nations, sitting on many waters. Rather than detail and describe my thoughts and reasons for whom MYSTERY BABYLON, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS, could be in my own words. I stumbled upon an article that precisely outlines my thoughts. I have the author's written permission to share it. The following link is a lengthy article; however, it is nothing compared to the amount of study we have already invested in. If you have the time, I consider this a well-worth reading and consideration. The Harlot's Judgment :: Stephen Meehan - Rapture Ready

You raise an interesting point on all these so-called global free trade agreements I have studied and pondered upon. Thousands upon thousands of pages of documentation for “free trade.” By design, for a long time now, the world has grown smaller and interdependent on one another to meet national needs and globalization. To my knowledge, no country is now self-dependent or self-sufficient, able to survive alone. This five-mineral “deal” Trump is trying to make with Ukraine is of vital importance to America. As I inferred, this globalization goes back to the Tower of Babel and Nimrod. That was the goal through the ages and kingdoms: a one-world utopia with two classes of people, the rulers and those ruled. Have you noticed Trump’s statements and ambitions for Canada and Greenland? As I mentioned, these global plans are a hidden open secret. I could wear out my keyboard documenting all the symbolism and intentions of this age. I will mention only one, the pyramid and all-seeing eye on Americas dollar bill, it is not conspiracy theory, but symbology and initiatives. To straighten out this global trade mess and inefficiency, something needs to happen to globalize it, to remove national sovereignty from the equation. As Jan Markell rightly quips, “The pieces are not falling apart; they are falling into place.” Enter the 1973 Club of Rome, dividing the globe into ten economic trading zones. Look at their map and the pieces falling into place—the latest with Trump’s declared statements with Canada and Greenland. I think of the possibility of oligarchies or the Ten Kings (Ten Horns) being handed over to the Antichrist for global control. I am convinced that this generation will witness many, if not all, of these things come to pass from here on out.

Good afternoon, Marilyn, it is nice to chat with you again. I would be interested to know how many property owners think they have water and mineral rights to the property they think they own. Have you ever heard of property owners who are nowhere near or associated with any water treatment facilities, with wells and septic systems, having to pay taxes on rain water flowing off their properties? Are there any restrictions on collecting and using falling rainwater coming? If we think these ideas are preposterous, we need to think again.

Yes, it does. UN Agendas 2021 and 2030 are in progressive lockstep. When you think about global government, what are the first organizations and alphabet agencies that come to mind? By far, Israel is the most sanctioned nation-state in the world. Why is that? The Bible predicts a future world where one individual controls all buying and selling (commerce). You must have the mark of the Beast to participate in this system. The only possible way is a cashless, barterless banking system, which has never been possible until today and is being implemented. All the prep work has manifested: computerization, a constellation of satellites, artificial intelligence (AI), 5G, all the terms of service (TOS) changes everyone is bombarded with, from your bank to Amazon, Google, Microsoft Edge, all of them. We now serve them, not them serve us (oligarchies). Digital experimentation and working out the kinks between the global banking systems are over. China and other nations are almost cashless, with China making up 86% of the digital yuan. Europe and Western governments are following. Globalization is no pipedream; it is here and being implemented right now. Watching the recent address to Congress should have made it obvious what the liberal democrats' agenda is. I envision Trump as the last obstacle to overcome for the one-world agenda to succeed. It is all in God’s plan and timing. Perhaps this could be the last wake-up call for America. Even the leader of the largest religion, sitting on many waters, Pope Francis is a hypocrite, a socialistic globalist mother earth worshipper, by his mouth and actions, easily proven.

Ten Global Development Issues for Discussion A.K.A. UN Agenda 2030 21252030 Agenda for Sustainable Development web.pdf I want to comment on all ten bullet points Michael listed, but it would turn into War and Peace. Yes, you are welcome. Lately, much banter and action has been on the so-called "deep state" or "shadow government." Of which a particular president is trying to expose and eradicate. As a veteran, patriot, and American, that sounds great, and he earned my vote versus the alternative. However, I do not rest my faith and trust in someone trying to do good in his power and taking sole credit for it. It is Jesus Christ alone. Daniel 2:21 (KJV) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: I have no doubt the Lord appointed this president (and all leaders) to perform His will, plans, and purposes; I can only guess whether the president is aware of it. His new spiritual officer and advisor, Paula White, gives me great pause. Are his unlikely against-the-odds presidential victories coincidental, his brushes with mortality chance, or possibly divine intervention? In his recent address to Congress, the president invoked the name of God three times, as I counted them. I would have much preferred he had said, "Lord willing," and invoked prayer for our nation. 2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. I am not disparaging what our president is trying to accomplish, exposing the deep state and eliminating it; a part of me is routing him on. However, his definition of the shadow government is entrenched liberal career civil servants (globalists) subverting the Constitution of the United States. The deep state, the shadow government in Washington D.C. (and globally), is not who we are fighting against. Ephesians 6:12 (KJV) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We are in a spiritual battle, and our nation desperately needs a revival. For inclusion and so much other decadence, when Congress opens a session with a guest chaplain praying to a false god, Brahma, and concluding the prayer with “amen, and a women,” not much was said. Houston, we have a problem. When Pastor Jack Hibbs was invited to open a session of Congress with prayer, he prayed to and invoked the precious Name of Jesus Christ our Lord. He was shunned by members of Congress and the liberal news media. Only a one-page response, which is unusual for me; again, you are welcome. :-)

The following does not appear to be selective, but all human spirits of all time: Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Animals are also given spirits: Ecclesiastes 3:21 (KJV) Who knoweth the spirit (rûaḥ) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (rûaḥ) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (c.f. Gen. 1:30, Job 12:10) (rûaḥ). n. fem. breath, wind, spirit. Can refer to immaterial beings as well as to wind, breath, human spirits, and the spirit of God. This word has a broad range of meanings. It can refer to wind (e.g., Exod. 10:19), to the breath of humans (e.g., Job 19:17), and of animals (e.g., Gen 7:22), to the animating spirit of humans (e.g., Psa. 31:5), and to the spirit of God, i.e., the Holy Spirit (e.g., Num 27:18). It occasionally refers to other immaterial beings; thus, 1 Sam 16:14–16 refers to an evil (רַע, raʿ) spirit (rûaḥ) sent to torment Saul, and 1 Kgs 22:18–22 tells of the host of heaven (or divine council) being assembled before Yahweh and a spirit (rûaḥ) from among them volunteering to be a lying spirit (rûaḥ) in the mouths of the prophets of King Ahab.[1] Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. The breath of life is generally defined by any life having a windpipe and lungs. Gills, exoskeletons, etc. are excluded. In my estimation the spirit and soul are somehow connected, and at death divided: Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The animal kingdom was not God breathed, only Adam. By procreation that God breathed is passed down generation to generation, a living soul. I have found Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary helpful as a starting point for this type of study, as well as several Systematic Theologies. All exegesis will vary with few holding the same opinion. SPIR´IT, n. [Fr. esprit; It. spirito; Sp. espiritu; L. spiritus, from spiro, to breathe, to blow. The primary sense is to rush or drive.] 1. Primarily, wind; air in motion; hence, breath. All bodies have spirits and pneumatical parts within them. Bacon. [This sense is now unusual.] 2. Animal excitement, or the effect of it; life; ardor; fire; courage; elevation or vehemence of mind. The troops attacked the enemy with great spirit. The young man has the spirit of youth. He speaks or acts with spirit. Spirits, in the plural, is used in nearly a like sense. The troops began to recover their spirits. Swift. 3. Vigor of intellect; genius. His wit, his beauty and his spirit. Butler. The noblest spirit or genius cannot deserve enough of mankind to pretend to the esteem of heroic virtue. Temple. 4. Temper; disposition of mind, habitual or temporary; as a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit; the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit. Let us go to the house of God in the spirit of prayer. Bickersteth. 5. The soul of man; the intelligent, immaterial and immortal part of human beings. [See Soul.] The spirit shall return to God that gave it. Eccles. 12. 6. An immaterial intelligent substance. Spirit is a substance in which thinking, knowing, doubting, and a power of moving do subsist. Locke. Hence, 7. An immaterial intelligent being. By which he went and preached to the spirits in prison. 1 Pet. 3. God is a spirit. John 4. 8. Turn of mind; temper; occasional state of the mind. A perfect judge will read each work of wit, With the same spirit that its author writ. Pope. 9. Powers of mind distinct from the body. In spirit perhaps he also saw Rich Mexico, the seat of Montezume. Milton. 10. Sentiment; perception. Your spirit is too true, your fears too certain. Shak. 11. Eager desire; disposition of mind excited and directed to a particular object. God has made a spirit of building succeed a spirit of pulling down. South. 12. A person of activity; a man of life, vigor or enterprise. The watery kingdom is no bar To stop the foreign spirits, but they come. Shak. 13. Persons distinguished by qualities of the mind. Such spirits as he desired to please, such would I choose for my judges. Dryden. 14. Excitement of mind; animation; cheerfulness; usually in the plural. We found our friend in very good spirits. He has a great flow of spirits. —To sing thy praise, would heaven my breath prolong, Infusing spirits worthy such a song. Dryden. 15. Life or strength of resemblance; essential qualities; as, to set off the face in its true spirit. The copy has not the spirit of the original. Wotton. 16. Something eminently pure and refined. Nor doth the eye itself, That most pure spirit of sense, behold itself. Shak. 17. That which hath power or energy; the quality of any substance which manifests life, activity, or the power of strongly affecting other bodies; as the spirit of wine or of any liquor. 18. A strong, pungent or stimulating liquor, usually obtained by distillation, as rum, brandy, gin, whiskey. In America, spirit, used without other words explanatory of its meaning, signifies the liquor distilled from cane-juice, or rum. We say, new spirit, or old spirit, Jamaica spirit, &c. 19. An apparition; a ghost. 20. The renewed nature of man. Matt. 26. Gal. 5. 21. The influences of the Holy Spirit. Matt. 22. Holy Spirit, the third person in the Trinity. SPIR´IT, v. t. To animate; to actuate; as a spirit. So talk’d the spirited sly snake. Milton. [Little used.] 2. To animate with vigor; to excite; to encourage; as, civil dissensions spirit the ambition of private men. Swift. It is sometimes followed by up; as, to spirit up. Middleton. 3. To kidnap. Blackstone. To spirit away, to entice or seduce..[2] [1] McGuire-Moushon, J. A. 2014. “Divine Beings.” In Lexham Theological Wordbook, edited by Douglas Mangum, Derek R. Brown, Rachel Klippenstein, and Rebekah Hurst. Lexham Bible Reference Series. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press. [2] Webster, Noah. 2006. In Noah Webster’s First Edition of An American Dictionary of the English Language. Anaheim, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education.

Reading your testimony, I thought WOW, that is much like mine. For decades, I, too, was a functioning alcoholic, which negatively impacted every aspect of my life. How does the Holy Spirit speak to us and convict us? I suspect everyone is dealt with differently, as we are all unique individuals. For better lack of a term, I had a unique conversion experience. If you are interested in how the Holy Spirit worked in my life over the decades, it can be found in the link below. Be warned that it is a long read: My Testimony - Testimonies - Worthy Christian Forums

Since the format is all questions and answers, what was the exact question asked on the program for clarity and context? I do similarly on this forum, not fully explaining and documenting every point I propose. I assume a general understanding of the subject matter at hand. We all have time constraints and can spend excessive time detailing a single point or question, neglecting the progression of a question-answer format. Likewise, can our testimony or the way to Salvation be summed up and explained with one or two Bible verses? If it were me, I would call into the program and ask him to clarify and expand on his brief answer, and then it becomes a part of the exegetical record versus email.

I see it much the same way as Vine Abider, unmerited or undeserved favor, not getting what we deserve, a free gift. There are two types of Grace and blessings. Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. A definition: 2. Appropriately, the free unmerited love and favor of God, the spring and source of all the benefits men receive from him. And if by grace, then it is no more of works. Rom. 11.[1] Romans 11:6 (KJV) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. [1] Webster, Noah. 2006. In Noah Webster’s First Edition of An American Dictionary of the English Language. Anaheim, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education.

Well, we are all entitled to our exegesis.

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

We cannot debate this one, as we are in total agreement. The man was made out of the earth and for the planet as imagers of God (another thread). As you rightly pointed out, God created the world to last forever, and Israel will have an everlasting land grant with its borders defined. Genesis 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. The earth and universe will be cleansed by fervent fire, dissolved, not annihilated, making way for the New Jerusalem: 2 Peter 3:10-12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Now, if I could only make you see everything else my way.

Of course, there is personal application that applies to us, as well as explanation by @AnOrangeCat, and to piggyback a little, the Pharisees, Sadducees, Popes, Theologians, Pastors, Bishops, church Deacons, Sunday School teachers, etc. will be held to a higher standard. The Paula Whites, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc., of today will be judged more harshly. However, in context, Jesus seems to be talking about Israel and their national leaders. In the following short commentary, I agree with the following: Jesus did not answer Peter’s question directly. Instead these verses indicate that He was talking primarily about the leadership of the nation at that time. The religious leaders were supposed to be managing the nation for God until He brought in the kingdom. However, they failed in that task; they were not looking expectantly toward the kingdom. Because of the penalty exacted (vv. 46–47), Jesus must not have been speaking about believers who were not ready. He seems to have been referring to the nation’s leaders who would be present at the time of the coming of the Son of Man. Faithless ones (v. 47) will be judged more severely than those who, though wicked, do not know about the coming of the Son of Man (v. 48a). Unbelievers with a great knowledge of God’s revelation will have to answer for their lack of response to that revelation.[1] [1] Martin, John A. 1985. “Luke.” In The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, edited by J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, 2:239. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

Okay, now we can get down to the nitty-gritty and fine-tune our exegesis. You solely base your argument on humanity being a tri-part being created in the image of God, body, soul, and spirit. Is that correct? I was going to mention it before I ran out of cyber ink. The higher forms of the animal kingdom are also tripart beings, consisting of body, soul, and spirit. I need not mention physical bodies, for that is obvious. Ø Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Spirit - (rûaḥ) Ø Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. [(nepeš) Soul – life – breath] Before further discussion, are we in agreement thus far? The animal kingdom, those with windpipes and lungs, is like us: tripart, body, soul, and spirit. If you are interested, my forthcoming argument will hinge on the definition of a soul, what differentiates a human soul from an animal soul, and what makes us God’s imagers.

Time may prove me wrong, but that is my current view.

What we in America refer to as the greatest generation, the WW II soldiers and that generation are fading rapidly, yet some remain until the very last one. It is not preposterous to surmise it could be as late as the last survivor of that generation. Naturally, I cannot prove it, but I have an inkling that Psalm 90:10 applies to Israel’s rebirth on May 14, 1948, the generation that witnesses that rebirth shall not pass. I am not dogmatic or adamant about it, but events to come are now moving at the speed of light. Time marches forward, and today, we are one day closer to the Lord’s return. I think we can agree on that.

I am not being quarrelsome or argumentative, and I agree with your assessment. But, as I proposed above, all humans must possess the image of God equally. Do all humans possess sentience and the ability to love from conception? Without going into detail, there are those being cared for and alive who are not self-aware or aware of anything and have no concept or ability to give or receive love. This concept does not seem to fit the definition of God's image. Humans and the animal kingdom are both given spirits; ours are God-breathed: Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit (rûaḥ) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (rûaḥ) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (rûaḥ) shall return unto God who gave it. In contrast to the animal kingdom, the 6th commandment is interesting: thou shall not kill (murder). In effigy, it is trying to kill the Creator, Almighty God, killing an ambassador representative in His image as I view it. As you infer, there are numerous species of “kinds.” It is expressively prohibited to cross the kind barrier, a long Genesis 6:1-4 and elsewhere narrative. It is an open secret the “kind” barrier is now being exploited. The percentage of DNA we share with the primate kingdom is amazing. A top geneticist states that <1% of human DNA alteration will make us less than human, which is the goal of enhancing our strength, endurance, and senses for super soldiers and human enhancement. I don’t know why I threw that in.

I have a ton of notes on what it means to be created in God's image, but they are too long to post. However, I will leave a couple of thoughts for you to ponder. The image of God cannot be any set of attributes, talents, sentience, or intelligence, as everyone must equally share it: a fetus, the mentally impaired, both sexes, all ethnicities, everyone. We are meant to be ambassadors for the Lord. In antiquity, an envoy or ambassador for the king was sent out to a land that had never known the king before and took an image of the king in the form of a signet ring or cylinder bearing the likeness and image of the king for proof. In short, being created in God's image is God’s seal of man’s authority, representing Him on Earth to do His will. As sin is inherently passed down from Adam from generation to generation, so is God’s image. As far as Adam’s size, given the mammoth size of flora and fauna in the fossil record, it stands to reason humans must have been more extensive than that of today. Dragonflies with three-foot wing spans; imagine getting hammered with mosquitoes the size of bats and ticks the size of baseballs after the earth was cursed. Yep, speculation!

Well, I think I can safely say that there are more views on the Book of Revelation than Carter had liver pills, and everyone seems to hold their view is correct. I am not criticizing anyone; it is just a fact. I do believe this generation is beginning to see the prelude of Daniel and Revelation prophecy unfolding as fast as our President is making changes. The mosaic of God’s end-time plan and conditions is beginning to come into focus for those watching. Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. All “these things” Jesus mentions are apparent right now. Exciting times!